Torpedos - best way to nail the shots?

[geoffrey.hdt]

Hello commanders,

I have been practicing my torpedo/missile boat build against high-threat assassination targets (i.e.: FdL with super strong shield + 3 point defense turrets, sometimes an ECM), and when 3 reverb cascade torps hit and the shield goes down, the fight is basically over in less than a minute. Impressive.

I am trying to figure out the best way to get the torps to detonate without the need for them to run after the target at their slow 250m/s speed (which still works relatively well if you manage to get your target to fly in circles...as long as you do not get close to the torps which would make them detonate).
The best way I found is to fire them between 1-1.5 km at a perpendicular 90-degree angle.
Tried to fire them in a joust (facing/boosting at my target) at around <1 km but, although they do connect, the shield is not damaged...do they need time to "arm" after they are fired, maybe?
Also tried to fire Pack Hounds with drag munition effect, but I have the impression that when these detonate, they destroy the torps if they are close to the explosions.

Any thoughts / shared experiences?
I am of course still testing / practicing, but the need to always have to rearm at a station (no synthesis for torps) makes long and testing tedious.

 

[mtfatboy3006]

Hello commanders,

I have been practicing my torpedo/missile boat build against high-threat assassination targets (i.e.: FdL with super strong shield + 3 point defense turrets, sometimes an ECM), and when 3 reverb cascade torps hit and the shield goes down, the fight is basically over in less than a minute. Impressive.

I am trying to figure out the best way to get the torps to detonate without the need for them to run after the target at their slow 250m/s speed (which still works relatively well if you manage to get your target to fly in circles...as long as you do not get close to the torps which would make them detonate).
The best way I found is to fire them between 1-1.5 km at a perpendicular 90-degree angle.
Tried to fire them in a joust (facing/boosting at my target) at around <1 km but, although they do connect, the shield is not damaged...do they need time to "arm" after they are fired, maybe?
Also tried to fire Pack Hounds with drag munition effect, but I have the impression that when these detonate, they destroy the torps if they are close to the explosions.

Any thoughts / shared experiences?
I am of course still testing / practicing, but the need to always have to rearm at a station (no synthesis for torps) makes long and testing tedious.

The only trick I ever found to using torpedoes effectively was flying a fast ship and shooting the target right up the backside. A ship armed with torpedoes has no staying power, though. A torpedo is fine for assassinating a single target with no wing mates, but then it's a dead hardpoint, so it isn't suited to combat zones, HazRes, or even assassinations with a threat level higher than 4. It's a fight-once-then-go-reload weapon.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

[...]It's a fight-once-then-go-reload weapon.

Agree, and it was exactly the kind of "exotic" build I was looking for.

[...]or even assassinations with a threat level higher than 4[...]

When things go well, I complete threat 6 assassination missions with ~95% of hull left on my shieldless build (and I do aggro my target for 1 or 2 passes, so that they start all firing at me, to make things more realistic/fair). Using my Frag Python or Concord FdL, I often end up with a blown up canopy :'-P

The only trick I ever found to using torpedoes effectively was flying a fast ship and shooting the target right up the backside. [...]

Not sure what you mean, actually...you mean, from behind, sneaky approach (I am actually planning to test the same...my build screams the urge to use silent running for less than honorable kills...)?

 

[mtfatboy3006]

Not sure what you mean, actually...you mean, from behind, sneaky approach (I am actually planning to test the same...my build screams the urge to use silent running for less than honorable kills...)?

I didn't mean anything quite so glorious as that. I just meant using a fast, maneuverable ship that could get behind the target and stay close long enough to fire the torpedoes, like a Cobra, a Viper, or an Eagle (I only ever used the Cobra). The procedure was get behind, lock, boost, fire. Needless to say, it didn't always work, and if they were already running flat out away and charging their jump, it was a lost cause (which makes engineering them for mass lock a bit silly).

LOL, Is it a coincidence that you picked the ship that most resembles a U-boat (albeit upside-down)? Before Cocijo, I never tried to use stealth more than to smuggle illegal goods through a mail slot or launch a hatchbreaker at a megaship. I never saw it as an effective combat mechanic. I never thought of pairing it with torpedoes. You'll have to report back how it goes.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I didn't mean anything quite so glorious as that. I just meant using a fast, maneuverable ship that could get behind the target and stay close long enough to fire the torpedoes, like a Cobra, a Viper, or an Eagle (I only ever used the Cobra). The procedure was get behind, lock, boost, fire. Needless to say, it didn't always work, and if they were already running flat out away and charging their jump, it was a lost cause (which makes engineering them for mass lock a bit silly).

LOL, Is it a coincidence that you picked the ship that most resembles a U-boat (albeit upside-down)? Before Cocijo, I never tried to use stealth more than to smuggle illegal goods through a mail slot or launch a hatchbreaker at a megaship. I never saw it as an effective combat mechanic. I never thought of pairing it with torpedoes. You'll have to report back how it goes.

I believe that firing the torps from behind your target makes it more likely that they will never connect if the target flies at more than 250 m/s.
I do know that torps and missiles get a "boost" from your current velocity, but believe that the torps need time to "arm" and would then therefore decrease to slow 250 m/s...which may explain why it did not seem to always work as per your experience.
I will have to test and confirm.

I do love the look of the Gunship!
But the main reason is to have 4x C2 hardpoints for Pack Hounds and still have more than 3 torps (which is the bare minimum to take down the shield of a FdL, at 42 damage per torp), and up to 6 torps (enough to take down a Cutter's class 8B Reinforced shield...or get a few spare for a next target, or another shot at your current target).

 

[mtfatboy3006]

I believe that firing the torps from behind your target makes it more likely that they will never connect if the target flies at more than 250 m/s.
I do know that torps and missiles get a "boost" from your current velocity, but believe that the torps need time to "arm" and would then therefore decrease to slow 250 m/s...which may explain why it did not seem to always work as per your experience.
I will have to test and confirm.

Yeah, too close or too far and it didn't work, but flying behind helped give the torpedo 3 seconds to arm before impact. As you noted, coming in too Obliquely or from the front just closed the distance too fast. But again, if they fly straight away and boost (which an NPC only does to jump), they evade. I gave up on the whole thing a long time ago, because other weapons were much more versatile. I will add I never tried the size 3...

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

[...] will add I never tried the size 3...

C3 has "only" 4 shots, which is twice a C2, and a 1 second interval between shots = 4 seconds to unload fully
So you would be better using 2x C2 instead to unload the same in half the time.

The first volley of my build fires 3 torps instantly (2x C1 + 1x C3).

They are not meant to take down fleeing targets (my weapon less Cutter build has never had an issue running from torpedoes). However, if your target is actively engaging you, or if you sneak up, that is then that they shine (if you manage to land the shots).

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I practiced again yesterday and was able to complete 2 assassination missions per reload (i.e.: 3 torpedos for each).
The best approach seems to fire a drag Hound salvo at the target to aggro it (which I mainly did to start the fight/keep things realistic), then another salvo around 1.5 - 2 km, and 3 torps immediately after that. Works pretty much consistently. Worked both when facing the target or at perpendicular.
The first Hound salvo may have the target use ECM (if equipped) which would render it unusable until it reloads, the second salvo reduces its maneuverability, and 1.5 km is a safe distance to give enough time for the toprs to arm before they make contact.

Next to test is using a lighter build. On paper it looks only half efficient, and can take out only one target before per reload, but...I just love how to Cobra mk V looks and feel...I need...to...give it a purpose

BTW, no need to waste ammo on Anaconda / Corvette targets...they are easy to ram and their shield don't hold much anyway. Besides, the Gunship loves it!

 

[Archvillain]

Speaking of cold shieldless stealth ships, back in the day the Diamondback Explorer was good at that, but we have a bunch of new ships now which often have impossibly good thermals compared to the previous generation. Do any of them seem to be a striking new contender for cold stealth ships?

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Speaking of cold shieldless stealth ships, back in the day the Diamondback Explorer was good at that, but we have a bunch of new ships now which often have impossibly good thermals compared to the previous generation. Do any of them seem to be a striking new contender for cold stealth ships?

I would say Mandalay and Dolphin, although they must be pretty much on par with the DBX.
Clean drive tuning+Thermal spread vs Dirty+Drag makes also a difference.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Hey, anybody know why a torpedo would not head to the target, but drift instead?
It has happened to me multiple times.

I was suspecting ECM, but today I observed the same behavior after firing one at my target that had no ECM and was drifting all alone with 0% dead thrusters.
Also, Elite Fandom says that while torps lose their lock with ECM, they should require it after the ECM effect wears down.