Totally Nerfing the Honk is a Mistake

So, what we used to have was a totally OP and pretty braindead honk that fully populated the Nav Panel with body distances and orbital hierarchies, and the System Map with orbital relationships and body images detailed enough to entirely give away the body type.

That was super dull, not very interesting and needed to go.

However, FD have gone too far in not populating the Maps or Nav Panel at all until you do an FSS body scan.

There is a middle ground, using only the information available from the new honk.
When you honk, the FSS scanner view is populated with the exact directions and distances of all the bodies.

However, that scanner view is the absolutely worst possible perspective from which to view that information.

Using only that direction and distance information, the honk can and should also populate the maps and the nav panel.

Important! Only the available information is used - there will be no body type information or orbital relationships known until after a body is scanned with the FSS scanner.

What that would look like:
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Generic equally sized black bodies to indicate the position (direction + distance = position) of all the bodies in the system.
This is exactly the same information available in the FSS scanner view, but from a better vantage point.

Why does this matter?
The longevity of the FSS functionality depends on having enough information to decide whether you want to use it, and on which bodies.

The current implementation gives you a waveform telling you what bodies there are in the system and a less than optimal view of where they are.
In my opinion, that is not enough to decide whether a system is interesting or not and whether I want to scan bodies or whether I want to move on.

Being able to make that decision reasonably quickly is important when there are 400 Billion systems and many of them are fairly ordinary.

Feeling forced to use the FSS body scan pushes the functionality from fun new gameplay that I use when I see something 'interesting' that I want to investigate further towards being just a necessary grind that I need to do in order to find something interesting.

It is far better than what we've had for 4 years, but I do think that being forced into a single track discovery methodology will get old quite quickly.

Populating the Nav Panel is really important even without orbital hierarchies.
If the honk knows where it is, why isn't it selectable, so that I can choose to fly towards it and resolve it via proximity scan.

Before you shoot me down, think about this carefully.
If you explore, you'll be using this functionality a lot.

Based on using it in the Beta, do you feel happy to move on purely based on the waveform, or do you feel the need to scan the bodies?
Think about the impact of that choice:
- do you miss something unusual because you moved on?
- do you end up spending a lot more time in systems that are pretty ordinary because you need to scan before you can decide?

Populating the maps and nav panel with only the information available from the new honk provides a better means to assess the interest of a system.
- the waveform will tell you what bodies there are
- the maps will give you an overview of where the bodies are
- the nav panel will let you select and fly to a body

The FSS body scan would still be required to match up the type and location of a body.
The key to this proposal is just having a better view of the information available from the new honk to decide if you want to.

Sorry, long post with some repetition, but I think it's really important that FD get this right.
I think they've swung too far in the opposite direction and that there is a reasonable middle ground.
We don't want to wait another 4 years with an exploration mechanism that is still less than ideal.
 
I pretty much agree as I like some of where's its going but I have a feeling that the newness will wear off quick and it will be just a hassle and non fun mini game.
 
You're right. But I can't be bothered with working with this new FSS system at all. It's just an entirely user-hostile mash-up of unnecessary different HUD modes and menus to get lost in, all with numerous undisclosed functions with unbound key bindings, apparently designed to make it impossible for explorers to find anything in a system. It's not fun no matter what you do with it and it's going to kill the game for explorers like me.
 
Uhuh,

I'd like to jump to system I've never visited before so I can have a bit of a play but, alas, I'm struggling to stay connected long enough to do so.

I'm hoping I'll be able to honk, get a basic system map and then just point my ship at anything that looks interesting and scan it with a mk1 eyeball.

Ideally, I won't ever have to screw around with the FSS at all.
 
You're right. But I can't be bothered with working with this new FSS system at all. It's just an entirely user-hostile mash-up of unnecessary different HUD modes and menus to get lost in, all with numerous undisclosed functions with unbound key bindings, apparently designed to make it impossible for explorers to find anything in a system. It's not fun no matter what you do with it and it's going to kill the game for explorers like me.


I was prone to try Beta and even Q4 when it was officially released, but ED will stay on the shelf, waiting, maybe, for some new DLC that will change the game for the better.
 
You're right. But I can't be bothered with working with this new FSS system at all. It's just an entirely user-hostile mash-up of unnecessary different HUD modes and menus to get lost in, all with numerous undisclosed functions with unbound key bindings, apparently designed to make it impossible for explorers to find anything in a system. It's not fun no matter what you do with it and it's going to kill the game for explorers like me.

It takes about 30 minutes to set up bindings and learn how it works. Its the minimum one should be able to invest if you want the game to go anywhere.

Anyone who finds this too much should really pray atmos and space legs never release, because you'll spend more than five minutes setting up the dozen or so of new bindings in total and it will be even scarier and confusing than a new menu or two.

Exploration should never have been honk jump honk jump. We've been lazy and spoiled.

Thats a bit harsh, but yeah, the extreme resistance of some to spend even the tiniest effort on a ton of new stuff is problematic...
 
I found myself out at Syuneuf somewhere with a DBX when I started Beta. Only a Basic DS on board, and I couldn't scan anything .... not even the next star I jumped to and, of course no planets in the system showed up.

I guess I will have to get used to the settings, just like with the camera, which is a big hassle. Meanwhile, it felt very uncomfortable not having access to what I had before. I've flown straight back to Shinrata to pick up a better-equipped ship.

But the game feels "off" at the moment. This scanning nerf has gone too far. Maybe I will be able to accept it with more time, but I just don't have time to hassle ..... :mad:
 
TBH it isn't like there is competition for exploration. In a galaxy of 400 billion systems, the stars and planets are not a limited resource and it is not a zero-sum game where if player A is faster than player B then somehow player B suffers for it. There will always be more stars and planets, for the next several hundred or thousand real years (if the game were to somehow actually survive that long). Players A and B probably aren't even located anywhere near each other because space is just that vastly bigly huge and the odds of them even encountering each other at random in deep space are so fractional as to be effectively impossible.

Given that the aforementioned is true, there really isn't a logical reason to strip certain types of explorers of their play style by removing the populating of the system map with basic information via the honk. These players aren't "advantaged" over others in any way because there isn't an advantage to be gained in the first place. The numbers are just too mind-bogglingly huge for it to matter in the slightest, which is why this outright hostility towards the traveling explorer is absurd and petty.
 
I totally agree with the OP. It's an interesting mechanics but it needs to be tuned a bit, give back some basic infos with the old good honk please.
 
This suggestion has been made a number of times after the first reveal of this feature. And, honestly, it seems the most sensible course of action.

But, it would seem that FDev either do not understand this issue properly, or have chosen not to correct for it, because all the adjustments they have made based on feedback seem to be ignoring this avenue completely.
 
But I can't be bothered with working with this new FSS system at all. It's just an entirely user-hostile mash-up of unnecessary different HUD modes and menus to get lost in, all with numerous undisclosed functions with unbound key bindings, apparently designed to make it impossible for explorers to find anything in a system.

You're making it to be way worse than it actually is without even having tried it. Learning to dock was more difficult than this, and that's not something I'd call 'difficult.' I did have to mess around with the bindings to do what I wanted, that's the only issue I really had with it, but figuring out the mechanics of the FSS itself was pretty easy to do after a few minutes of messing around, and that was ignoring the integrated "FSS help" note they have in the game. Outside of screwing with your keybinds, it would only take you a couple minutes of messing about to figure out how everything works.
 
That's not a bad idea. We've now got four different ways of seeing system information (nav panel, old system map, orrery and FSS interface), so it wouldn't be a stretch to have the unresolved signals shown on the other three. Resolving them on the FSS interface is always going to be the quickest way anyway, which is as it should be, but it's always good to have more than one way to do things even if some of them are more long-winded.
 
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known until after a body is scanned with the FSS scanner.

What that would look like:

Generic equally sized black bodies to indicate the position (direction + distance = position) of all the bodies in the system.
This is exactly the same information available in the FSS scanner view, but from a better vantage point.

I kind of agree with this OP. A system map that has more of a "fog" hidden state as your pic suggested but still a general system location "ping" of what's there. The new FSS can still work the same way after the initial honk with something like the pic. And USS's, bases, invididual asteroid groups, new scenario structures, and other things could be kept off the honk as currently. Even without any more changes, I'm fine with it, but yeah, it's going to take some more time finding bodies of systems that have 50 or more with many around gas giants.
 
If you are in the bubble or any previously discovered system then this is basically how it works. The reason that you don't get this information when you're on the edge of discovered space is to create a "fog of war" gameplay and give meaning to shared discoveries. If you get the same info from an ADS honk that you get from communal exploration knowledge, then the communal Exploration knowledge becomes worth less.

The system is very well thought out, it's just new, which means a learning curve. Give it a week and you'll be telling players who are just joining the beta how simple and effective it is.
 
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