Trading - am I being stupid?

RobertPBham

R
Hi all,

I've been doing a little trading between Sol, Barnards Star and Wolf 359. Just like in the old days of Frontier, I'm looking for the 'Robots and Computers' to Sol and 'Luxury items' to Barnards Star to make some money.

I don't expect things to be easy, but.... I look at the Commodities market and see what items are exported to where - I buy those items and travel to the system to find that I can only sell them for a loss! I understand that markets change, but why is something exported that you lose money on? It just doesn't make any sense!

I'm not looking for any cheats on what to buy and sell, just clarity on the information in the commodities market data.

I appreciate the help!

Thanks
Rob
 

Lindonius

Lindonius
RobertPBham said:
Hi all,

I've been doing a little trading between Sol, Barnards Star and Wolf 359. Just like in the old days of Frontier, I'm looking for the 'Robots and Computers' to Sol and 'Luxury items' to Barnards Star to make some money.

I don't expect things to be easy, but.... I look at the Commodities market and see what items are exported to where - I buy those items and travel to the system to find that I can only sell them for a loss! I understand that markets change, but why is something exported that you lose money on? It just doesn't make any sense!

I'm not looking for any cheats on what to buy and sell, just clarity on the information in the commodities market data.

I appreciate the help!

Thanks
Rob
Click to expand...

Yeah the trade information in the galaxy map and on the commodities board is nonsense. Most people are using 3rd party websites and tools for trade information.....

http://www.elitetradingtool.co.uk/

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=76081
 

Negative Entropy

N
depends on how much spoonfeeding you want, so I'll start with vague pointers. we can get more specific if you want.

the system map shows you the economy type of a system/station. you can also set filtering and coloring in the galaxy map to make easier to spot systems with particular economy types.

look at the commodity market where you are and see if some commodities are a good trade (hint: HIGH supply, price much lower than galactic average)
now look at the economy types of neighbouring systems. does it sound like those economies would have a use for your chosen commodity?
also before you go take a look at this stations DEMAND column. what do they pay good price for? remember this or take a note. also take note of your current system's economy type for future reference. later you might notice sone station offering something highly wanted here.
after doing this for a while you will be familiar with what commodities are in demand in what kinds of economies, and what commodities in supply.

a good rule of thumb if you cannot remember all the prices: buy stuff where in HIGH supply, and sell it where in HIGH demand.

later you will also start noticing that some commodities are rarer than others, and may offer special opportunities.

when I started, I began by taking courier and delivery missions and scouted all the markets where I went so when ready to trade I already had a good idea what commodities I should pander.
 

Cmdr Pli55ken

C
I'm not looking for any cheats on what to buy and sell, just clarity on the information in the commodities market data.
Click to expand...
Just started on trading, and was facing the same problem you had.
It's not good just to buy any old stuff in the hope of selling it for a profit (I kept making losses that way, too...and there are some items like marine equipment which seem like good deals, but are hard to find a market for). Scout around first going empty. Try to find systems with high population numbers (they will have high supply numbers, and when you offload you will not immediately satisfy the demand so the prices for your route will remain stable for a while).

Check expensive items that are either high in demand or high in supply (cheap items make no money - even in bulk). Check how far off the gelactic mean they are. Jot that number down (e.g. "Progenitor cells in system XY about 1000 below galactic average"). Do this for the top 5 items of a station (supplied and demanded). Then look around for nearby systems with complementary economies (when you select an item in the commodities market it tells you what type of economy consumes/produces these). Then try to find such a one also with high population numbers. If you're lucky you will find something to trade back and forth.
(I find that you often have to go 2-3 systems far to find such a pair)
 

RobertPBham

R
Thank you for all of your input - that's really helpful and gives me some good pointers!

I'll do some more research in the systems and then trade as advised!

It's a shame the export data isn't right - I'd never expect to make a fortune as that would be a cheat in my mind, but thought it may allow you to make a small profit until you spot the gems! :)
 

zhaith

Z
best thing you can do i just ignore any information the game gives you as to where to buy or sell stuff, head for a high population high tech system preferably with a mix of high population/well of systems within a few jumps , and make a note of what sells below & buys above the galactic average then start visiting the local systems to and do the same and you'll build a picture of what commodities will make you a nice profit, it may take a little while but i have a few trade routes I use and as I have not used 3rd party tools and not advertised where i trade my main route has been very stable since the game launched.

As for how to record the information you find, a pen and paper is enough to start you off but as you venture to more planets this will be cumbersome, so the best bet is to use a spreadsheet/database or 3rd party app.

Obviously there's also crowd sourced options such as slopey's tool but personally i wont use this as i want to know information for systems I have visited not go chasing around the galaxy trying to maximise profits, which then dry up a lot quicker due to the amount of people using the tool. Plus it will make learning the relationships between different economys a lot harder.
 

bonsek

bonsek
This is a helpful chart. http://i.imgur.com/QsxScn1.png

Things to note that quite a few systems are mix of different economies and that will have an effect on prices. It might say in the galaxy map its agricultural system, but if you look at the system map and check all the stations/outpost you will notice that they all have their own economies. I believe that affects the prices and what the Galaxy map shows. The map might show a system where certain commodity is imported, but which station/outpost has better sale price.

Also another important thing is population size. High population systems most likely will have higher supply and higher demand.

Edit: Forgot to add, the Galaxy average price is your friend. When you buy stuff look for prices that are way below the galaxy average.
If you buy an item that is in HIGH supply and is let say 500cr/ton lower than the galaxy average price, most likely you will make a profit. The closer your buying price is to galaxy average, more likely you might come even or even lose credits.
 
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Negative Entropy

N
a couple of more comments.

a) if you are starting and don't have much capital don't necessarily look for the most expensive commodities find the highest priced ones you can afford to fill your cargo hold with. if you can carry 6 tons and can afford to spend 30000 credits then palladium at 1000 profits per tonn is worse than say silver giving 800/t because you will be able to fill your hold with silver (6x800=4800) but only can buy 3t of palladium (3x1000=3000)

b) remember to reserve enough for the insurance rebuy cost+a bit of cargo specially if you have upgraded your ship.
 

Spiridon

Spiridon
OP, if you're just starting to trade, I highly recommend rares. Just look it up on the Forum, plenty of information.
 

cowasaki

cowasaki
Robert,

Goto elitetradingtool.co.uk and check it out.....

I've just stuck WOLF 359 in for you and set the cargo to 4T and it comes out with the following trade:

1) Buy Domestic Appliances from Wolf 359 (lots orbiter) and sell them at Ross 154 (Birkeland city) = 1168 Cr
2) Buy Lithium at Ross 154 (Birkeland city) and sell at Wolf 562 (Hopkins port) = 1960 Cr

3) Buy Advanced Catalysers at Wolf 562 (Hopkins port) and sell them at WISE 0855-0714 (Yamasaki Landing) = 3584 Cr
4) Buy Tantalum at WISE 0855-0714 (Yamasaki Landing) and sell them at Wolf 562 (Hopkins port) = 2100Cr

3 and 4 are a back and forth trade route so you can do that for a while making 5.5K after fuel per return

As your capacity increases just increase what you are buying, this is only for 4T

Then as funds allow increase the size of your craft or at least the amount of storage..... What ship are you using.?
 

InMemoriamSirocco

Banned
InMemoriamSirocco
Spiridon said:
OP, if you're just starting to trade, I highly recommend rares. Just look it up on the Forum, plenty of information.
Click to expand...

This +1

If you are trading in anything significantly below 100 tons of cargo space, rare trading will be most profitable. Get a jump range of at least 15 ly and haul it over to the system of Lave.


You can get

up to 7 tons of "Lavian Brandy" in Lave Station, Lave
up to 15 tons of "Diso Ma Corn" at Shifnalport, Diso
up to 7 tons of "Azure Milk" and up to 14 tons of "Leestian Evil Juice" at George Lucas, Leesti
up to 16 tons of "Orrerian Vicious Brew" at Sharon Lee Free Market, Orrere
up to 14 tons of "Uszaian Tree Grub" at Guest Installation, Uszaa
up to 1 "Leathery Egg" at Ridley Scott, Zaonce

All these systems are within 10 ly jump distance of each other...


up to 12 tons of "CD-75 Kitten Brand Coffee" at Kirk Dock, CD-75 661 (a bit further away, but still easily reachable)


Then plot a route all the way to Momus Reach, which is over 160 ly away from this star cluster.

In Momus Reach, you can sell those rares for maximum profit.

You an also get

up to 7 tons of "Momus Bog Spaniel" at Tartarus Point, Momus Reach
up to 9 tons of "Witchaul Kobe Beef" at Hornby Terminal, Witchhaul
up to 10 tons of "Fujin Tea" at Futen Spaceport, Fujin
up to 13 tons of "Wolf Fesh" at Saunders Dive, Wolf 1301
up to 17 tons of "Tauri Chimes" at Porta, 39 Tauri
up to 18 tons of "Zeessze Ant Grub Glue" at Nicollier Hanger, Zeessze
up to 9 tons of "Tanmark Tranquil Tea" and up to 12 tons of "Lucan Onion Head" at Cassie-L-Peia, Tanmark

Those systems are not as near to each other as the Lave, Leesti, Diso, Orrere, Uszaa, Zaonce Cluster, but reasonably close to each other for some round trips to fill up your cargo hold with rares for the return trip.

"Wolf Fesh" and "Lucan Onion Head" are illegal goods, but they won't get you fined if you are scanned. You just have to plan your return trip to Orrere and sell those rares at Sharon Lee Free Market, where you can immediately start to fill up on "Orrerian Brew" again... and rinse and repeat. You'll need a fuel scoop for the long distance haul, and a decent jump distance. In the Lave-Cluster, you will often find Courier- or Light Cargo Haul missions on the bulletin boards that lead to another port that is also a source for rare goods. So you can make some mission money along the way while stocking up on rares.

Still a viable source of income in an Asp with 80 tons of cargo space. As soon as you get a 100 ton cargo Type 6, you can make credits faster via regular trading - that is, if you can find a trade route that doesn't dry up quickly.
 

Chris M Fortune

C
The chart is best I have seen, not perfect as it only takes primary economies into account so you need to watch out for a diverse secondary economy causing some ripples.

That would be awesome laid out as a more compact text based chart too for faster reference
 
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