Trading efficiency by Ship

[Cyranis]

Just some numbers I've been playing with recently. Thought you might find the data interesting.

Ship	Cargo	Cost	Cargo Cost	Cargo Perc. Val Ship	Profit/Hr.	Insurance	Ship replacement per hour	Ship and cargo replacement per hour	Spd	Spd Mod
Sidewinder	10	33272	100000	300.50%	43980	1664	26.43	0.4320	220	0.733
Eagle	14	51342	140000	272.60%	67200	2567	26.178	0.4710	240	0.8
Viper	22	157786	220000	139.40%	140712	7889	17.836	0.6170	320	1.066
Hauler	22	68618	220000	320.60%	87912	3431	25.622	0.3930	200	0.666
Adder	26	104913	260000	247.80%	114348	5246	21.797	0.4310	220	0.733
Cobra Mk III	60	449448	600000	133.40%	335880	22472	14.946	0.5390	280	0.933
Lakon 6	112	1256743	1120000	89.10%	492576	62837	7.838	0.4160	220	0.733
Asp Explorer	128	6993671	1280000	18.30%	639744	349684	1.829	0.3920	250	0.833
Federal Dropship	164	38238163	1640000	4.20%	590400	1911908	0.308	0.1660	180	0.6
Imperial Clipper	248	23359252	2480000	10.60%	1488000	1167963	1.274	0.4070	300	1
Orca	192	49033770	1920000	3.90%	1152000	2451689	0.469	0.2630	300	1
Lakon 7	232	18183056	2320000	12.70%	835200	909153	0.918	0.2580	180	0.6
Python	292	57888581	2920000	5.00%	1459416	2894429	0.504	0.2500	250	0.833
Anaconda	468	148966344	4680000	3.10%	1684800	7448317	0.226	0.1380	180	0.6
Lakon 9	532	80341418	5320000	6.60%	1382136	4017071	0.344	0.1480	130	0.433
10 Minute runs	Modified by ship speed
1000c/T Profit

10,000c cargo

 

[Albadaran]

Good work, Thnx!

 

[HoshiQaVam]

It's an interesting read, but you're ignoring fuel cost which becomes a major factor in the Python, Lakon-9 and Anaconda. So much so that for the first time as a trader you really have to sacrifice cargo capacity for at least a 3A cargo scoop.

A full tank refill in a Clipper is something like 9,000 credits. That means it's negligible enough that you can just refuel at a station. In a Python it costs 160,000 to refil a full tank - that basically wipes out the additional profits that a Python makes over a Clipper. It jumps even higher for the Type 9.

So not only are you now having to sacrifice cargo capacity to avoid paying for fuel, but you're increasing the overall round trip of a trade run as, even with a 3A fuel scoop, you'll be sitting a star for a couple minutes while your tank guzzles up stace juice.

I always try to avoid working out what my hourly credit gain is, but the only way I could ensure I was earning more in a Python over a Clipper was to take full advantage of medium pads and find very short (less than 25ly) trade runs that would have been impossible in a Clipper.

 

[Cyranis]

In the Anaconda i'm currently flying, fuel cost is negligible. I pay 20,000 credits for a round trip, which nets me 1.2 million. After you are in a T7 or above you are doing short round trips and not hauling rares.

Just for context, a round trip takes me 8 minutes.

 

[Loskene]

Does fuel cost more for bigger ships, even if the fuel tank is the same size as on smaller ones? That seems wrong to me if so. If anything fuel should be cheaper if you're buying it 30 tons at a time.

 

[Cyranis]

Fuel costs can be mitigated by having way more jump range then the jump your doing needs. For instance, my current run is 8ly away, and I can jump 20ly laden.

 

[HipToss]

Does fuel cost more for bigger ships, even if the fuel tank is the same size as on smaller ones? That seems wrong to me if so. If anything fuel should be cheaper if you're buying it 30 tons at a time.

13Ly in a T9 is about 32k for fuel

 

[Ancipital]

A full tank refill in a Clipper is something like 9,000 credits. That means it's negligible enough that you can just refuel at a station. In a Python it costs 160,000 to refil a full tank - that basically wipes out the additional profits that a Python makes over a Clipper. It jumps even higher for the Type 9.

So not only are you now having to sacrifice cargo capacity to avoid paying for fuel, but you're increasing the overall round trip of a trade run as, even with a 3A fuel scoop, you'll be sitting a star for a couple minutes while your tank guzzles up stace juice.

That seems like a really bad idea. You should be able to make enough credits/ton/hour in your t9 that wasting time scooping is far less profitable. Moreover, a big freighter scooping fuel (with a nice high temperature) is something of a sitting duck. If fuel costs are a major factor, then your trade routes are not correctly planned to suit your current ship. Go for shorter routes that you can complete quickly, and carry a lot of cargo frequently.

By all means have a fuel scoop if it stops you worrying, but try not to need it.

 

[Cyranis]

The T9 would pay 40,000 more credits doing my route because of the low jump range, but they also carry more cargo then I can. And does 360k for fuel over an hour really matter when you net just under 6 million?
Expecially when you consider that bumping a station and taking a small amount of hull damage is going to cost you more then an hours worth of fuel.

 

[sic]

Good one.

Class A Thruster does make a difference in T6 T7 and T9.. I drive one with A Thruster (51 mil). And also shields.. it's really just 500 cargo.
With everything, it has 8.3 mil insurance in total..

and there's a fuel cost, pirates and just a bad trading day..

 

[Quineloe]

Fuel Cost?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's an interesting read, but you're ignoring fuel cost which becomes a major factor in the Python, Lakon-9 and Anaconda. So much so that for the first time as a trader you really have to sacrifice cargo capacity for at least a 3A cargo scoop.

A full tank refill in a Clipper is something like 9,000 credits. That means it's negligible enough that you can just refuel at a station. In a Python it costs 160,000 to refil a full tank - that basically wipes out the additional profits that a Python makes over a Clipper. It jumps even higher for the Type 9.

So not only are you now having to sacrifice cargo capacity to avoid paying for fuel, but you're increasing the overall round trip of a trade run as, even with a 3A fuel scoop, you'll be sitting a star for a couple minutes while your tank guzzles up stace juice.

I always try to avoid working out what my hourly credit gain is, but the only way I could ensure I was earning more in a Python over a Clipper was to take full advantage of medium pads and find very short (less than 25ly) trade runs that would have been impossible in a Clipper.

Can't agree with this, the 32t fuel tank of the Python means I can make my round trip 4 times before my fuel is out. Then I buy a 5A fuel scoop to refill the tank. This does not take long at more than half a ton of fuel scooper per second. So with the normal run I carry 284t, with the scoop run I carry 252t. Clipper at best is 240, and on that I actually paid for fuel. On the Python I don't.

 

[49rTbird]

I believe the cost of fuel is the same but some ships use more per jump and operation.

Does fuel cost more for bigger ships, even if the fuel tank is the same size as on smaller ones? That seems wrong to me if so. If anything fuel should be cheaper if you're buying it 30 tons at a time.

 

[HoshiQaVam]

The T9 would pay 40,000 more credits doing my route because of the low jump range, but they also carry more cargo then I can. And does 360k for fuel over an hour really matter when you net just under 6 million?
Expecially when you consider that bumping a station and taking a small amount of hull damage is going to cost you more then an hours worth of fuel.

It might not sound like much, but it culminates to quite a huge cost over a fixed period of time, and frankly your numbers are very conservative.

In the Python it is potentially a deal breaker; it's certainly enough that you either need to reduce the distance you're trading over, or invest in a fuel scoop. That's a decision you don't really have to make in almost any other ship geared for trade.

With distances over 35ly the fuel costs begin to negate the profit gained from the bigger hold, so clearly it's a factor that should be considered when you want to know how much each ship can earn in trade.

 

[HoshiQaVam]

I believe the cost of fuel is the same but some ships use more per jump and operation.

It's possible that the secondary tank is where the difference is, but in real terms the cost IS different per-tonne per-ship.

The T7 and Python both have a 32 tonne main tank. To completely re-fill a T7 costs around 4,000. To completely re-fill a Python costs around 160,000. They both have very similar ranges, and both consume around the same amount of fuel per-round trip.

This is an attempt to balance the credit gain from the bigger ships, and the devs have previously stated that in-game reasons are that stations don't have landing charges, so they make their money using differing tax rates of fuel based on ship being fuelled.

 

[CrazyH0rse]

A question here....

You are basing the calcs on a 10 minute run and modifying according to speed? But in a single trip, only 3 minute max of the total 10 minutes would be under "impulse" power. The rest us spent in hyper space or super cruise.

Is there a difference in performance in SC for different ships?

Also, the jump rage will make a huge difference. It takes at least 45-50 seconds per jump and a run in a Type 9 with 3 jumps might only be one jump in a Phython or 'Conda?

 

[HoshiQaVam]

Fuel Cost?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Can't agree with this, the 32t fuel tank of the Python means I can make my round trip 4 times before my fuel is out. Then I buy a 5A fuel scoop to refill the tank. This does not take long at more than half a ton of fuel scooper per second. So with the normal run I carry 284t, with the scoop run I carry 252t. Clipper at best is 240, and on that I actually paid for fuel. On the Python I don't.

However you work it, you're saying the same thing I am; to make the Python viable you have to do fuel runs. If you pay for fuel, you'll have a hard time justifying swapping the Imp Clipper.

 

[Quineloe]

I just refueled in ~40 seconds from almost empty, and I used that time to already select the port I was going to and aligning the ship. That is a small price to pay for another 44t of cargo capacity on 9 out of 10 runs.

Caculate like that, 44t for 6 runs is already a whole extra run for the clipper. I need to refuel after 8. So by the time I have to stop for less than a minute on refueling, I'm already a whole trip ahead.

 

[HoshiQaVam]

Except you aren't taking into account the extra time required to swap the module, and the additional cost.

I am willing to bet that dropping 8 tonnes of cargo capacity for a 3A fuel scoop works out to be a better solution over a few hours.

 

[Quineloe]

What additional cost? The time to swap modules is very short. And 3A scoop takes forever to refuel.

Gonna clock how long it takes me to refit the scoop now.


Ok, took me 1 minute from docking to sell, swap scoop for cargo rack, buy, undocking. So 1 minute times two, +1 minute for scooping makes three minutes.

You can't do a whole extra trip in three minutes. Not even close.


and just on top of this: docking sell buy undocking in a python takes almost a minute anyways, because of the blast shield thing. So it makes no difference whether you enter the hangar or not.

 

[Cyranis]

I didn't include calculations for that, because if you are doing a 40 ly ... or a 3 jump trade route .. you are doing it wrong. Also the above are not about exact numbers, it's about ratio's and how the ships scale as you move up.