Horizons Trading Viability.

[Herne]

I came back from taking quite a long break from Elite Dangerous over the Christmas holidays, and have had a great time, increasing my imperial rep, and doing a few engineer mods, playing with passenger missions etc.

I had a go at trading in my Python, initially trying to find my own routes, which was actually quite frustrating, on Saturday afternoon I decided to try EDDB. Around 1700 GMT I arrived at location, I forget where it was, and I did a couple of runs to see if it was indeed viable. I think it was paying just over 3k credits / ton for a round trip about 25k LY between systems. I was happy with that, I didn't think it was spectacular with my 200 ton cargo capacity, when compared to running missions between systems, but I was happy to do this for a while.

Around 6pm, I picked up my wife from work. I loaded up on imperial slaves before logging so I could jump straight back in to the swing of things on my return. We decided to stop at a restaurant to grab something to eat. I logged back in around 8pm, took my imp slaves to the suggested destination, but by this time they were no longer even buying imp slaves. The route had been shut down within hours.

I was thinking it would be nice if trading could be enhanced, to make it a less frustrating experience. Current in game tools, have had me buying products, for more money than stations where these products are in demand are willing to pay for them.

I did think it would be a nice feature, if you were allied with contacts within a system that they may occasionally tip you off to a good trade route within a certain radius of the system. Say 50 LY's for instance.

Does anyone else think that trading needs a bit of a revamp ? any ideas for making it feel less frustrating ?

 

[muchawano]

Well i tried to understand the trading system when i start it to play ED, it is quite complex and for me it was well too complex, even with internet eddb and alike sites, it was just not working for me. I left trading until now, i found out program called Trade computer extension mk2, u can scan all the markets u visit and build ur own market data place and then search best profit routes between them and much more.

Here`s TCE topic, u should check it out https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/223056-RELEASE-Trade-Computer-Extension-Mk-II

 

[6xes]

i think the Trading aspect of the game could do with a Revamp.... in this respect

Have trading commodities change at a moments notice... like how you encountered!!
having unpredictable price changes fluctuate on a moments notice and remain in place for a period of time!.. so you can cash in if you are the fortunate trader and then Revert back to normal prices within a 2hour span!!

these types of changes can make EDDB redundant, but still useful of course

 

[777Driver]

Does anyone else think that trading needs a bit of a revamp ? any ideas for making it feel less frustrating ?

Trading did have a revamp, work the BGS, system states now affect commodity prices. Filter the gal map for Outbreaks, Famine, Warzones, Boom states etc. Trade smart and you can make very large profits on top of regular haulage missions.

Generally not a good idea to tell anyone your routes, they will dry up quickly if other Cmdrs start bringing in there T9's/Anaconda's/Cutters. Same deal with EDDB, if you have located a high paying route, chances are others are going to descend on it and dry it up.

Personally I only use EDDB when doing mission running, I'll fill up the rest of the cargo hold with whatever EDDB recommends for the that single drop off.

High paying commodity trading, I'll figure out the route myself.

 

[Herne]

Trading did have a revamp, work the BGS, system states now affect commodity prices. Filter the gal map for Outbreaks, Famine, Warzones, Boom states etc. Trade smart and you can make very large profits on top of regular haulage missions.

Generally not a good idea to tell anyone your routes, they will dry up quickly if other Cmdrs start bringing in there T9's/Anaconda's/Cutters. Same deal with EDDB, if you have located a high paying route, chances are others are going to descend on it and dry it up.

Personally I only use EDDB when doing mission running, I'll fill up the rest of the cargo hold with whatever EDDB recommends for the that single drop off.

High paying commodity trading, I'll figure out the route myself.

what's BGS ? I've watched a few trading guides on you tube and of course read yokais excellent trading guide I saw elsewhere on this forum, (not sure I spelled his name right) but I've not had any success with them. I feel like I'm not understanding the fundamental rules of trading beyond the obvious supply and demand. Now you mention about filtering for outbreaks, Famine, Warzones, etc, but to what end ? At a best guess I would say that outbreaks might need medicine, famine > food, warzones > weapons, armor, boom states ? no idea.

I want to be able to find my own routes, but the guides I have followed so far have lead me astray, often making no profit at all. If you are able to provide any fundamental trading insight, then that would be most welcome.

 

[goemon]

High paying commodity trading, I'll figure out the route myself.

if you find a route on eddb.io with >4000 cr/t profit a-b-a, the route will be dead in a few hours.

i made a list for myself of state depending high profit goods, used the galaxy map to check for states as 777driver describes, used eddb.io to check for sources of those goods, re-checked that source economy was in boom by galaxy map, and ONLY used stations that had their last data update more than 3 days ago on eddb.io --- which allowd me to run 5000-6000 cr/t profit a-b-a routes.

here is my list of state depending goods:

 

[Herne]

if you find a route on eddb.io with >4000 cr/t profit a-b-a, the route will be dead in a few hours.

i made a list for myself of state depending high profit goods, used the galaxy map to check for states as 777driver describes, used eddb.io to check for sources of those goods, re-checked that source economy was in boom by galaxy map, and ONLY used stations that had their last data update more than 3 days ago on eddb.io --- which allowd me to run 5000-6000 cr/t profit a-b-a routes.

here is my list of state depending goods:

http://i.imgur.com/PsOnCeX.png?1

Not sure that I understand your spread sheet, but your description seems clear enough, I think I will give this a try tonight. I can see how this works for identifying a source for your target system, but how do you know what to take back on your return trip ?

 

[goemon]

I can see how this works for identifying a source for your target system, but how do you know what to take back on your return trip ?

matching economies/states ;-)

many stations have a primary and a secondary economy. a classic is for exampel medical diagnostics equipment from a high tech economy in boom, to a military economy in boom, witch has extraction as a secondary economy. on the way back you take one of the goods from extraction in boom to high tech in boom - palladium for exampel.

 

[Herne]

Trading Computer Module. How awesome would that be ! I'd definitely fork out for and use up one of my optional modules in a large ship for such a device, that could pull up to date commodity information for an increasing radius depending on class /size.

as useful as the third party tools are, personally I would rather not have to rely on tools not provided by the game.

Edit: so while browsing the commodity list at your current station, it would give you the best price and destination within your Trading Computer Module's search radius in the product description.

 

[Tryst]

The biggest problem with trading and it always has been is the lack of information. Once more, third party sites and apps provide what FD did not. This game takes place over a thousand years in the future but considering the lack of information we have on our onboard systems, it may as well be the dark ages. I'm half expecting us to have swords and shields if we eventually get the ability to walk about in the stations in first person, that's if we don't have to rely on third party apps to provide weapons at all.

 

[Mikey2305]

Not sure that a third party tool is needed these days. The only time i use one now is working out CGs. As stated above, understanding the relationship between system economy and state is all you need to know to get you profitable trade routes. They may be temporary but they are there...

 

[Tryst]

Shifting 200 tons of manure 25Ly to gain a massive 30K credits isn't what I'd call lucrative. If I use third party apps, I can find trade routes that give me upwards of 1 million for the same amount of tonnage over even shorter routes.

 

[goemon]

Shifting 200 tons of manure 25Ly to gain a massive 30K credits isn't what I'd call lucrative. If I use third party apps, I can find trade routes that give me upwards of 1 million for the same amount of tonnage over even shorter routes.

we were talking about 4000 - 6000 cr/t profit a-b-a, that's 800 k to 1,2 mio a-b-a.

if you are claiming you can find a 5000 cr/t profit route (1 mio/200) ONE WAY with less than 25 ly jumprange by using a third party tool, i urge you to post one.

eddb.io lists no route with such a profit, and there is only 1 commodity which generates >5000 cr/t profit in the galaxy - insulating membrane.

medical diagnostic equipment is second with a cap of 4900 cr profit/t.

 

[Tryst]

we were talking about 4000 - 6000 cr/t profit a-b-a, that's 800 k to 1,2 mio a-b-a.

if you are claiming you can find a 5000 cr/t profit route (1 mio/200) ONE WAY with less than 25 ly jumprange by using a third party tool, i urge you to post one.

eddb.io lists no route with such a profit, and there is only 1 commodity which generates >5000 cr/t profit in the galaxy - insulating membrane.

medical diagnostic equipment is second with a cap of 4900 cr profit/t.

Try Imperial Slaves. I can get 1M one way and about 200K for the return trip with Auto Fabricators. If you think I'm silly enough to give the info on systems, so others can saturate the market and ruin my profits, you're insane.

 

[Jmanis]

As others have mentioned, trading has had a bit of an overhaul (but could do with more of this sort of thing, frankly). Some basic things you can do though...
- Ship food to stations owned by a faction in a famine state
- Ship Medicines to stations owned by a faction in a outbreak state
- If you want to be more clever, ship military fabrics to a surface military post in a boom state.

There's lots of other things, but they're some basics. You can also exploit some powerplay effects, but they got nerfed hard because the forum community generally hates nice things

 

[goemon]

Try Imperial Slaves. I can get 1M one way and about 200K for the return trip with Auto Fabricators. If you think I'm silly enough to give the info on systems, so others can saturate the market and ruin my profits, you're insane.

imperial slaves have a max profit of 4731 cr/t. with 200T of cargo you end up at 946 200 cr/t. that includes buying them from torval space, Chujohimba, Yu Hub which is the lowest purchase price. but below 25 ly they "only" have a profit of 4310 cr... you'd be better of trading Medical Diagostics Equipment state depending ;-)

anyway plus 200 k profit for autofabicators that would be 5410 - 5731 cr/profit/t, which is a respectable profit.

but you claim those routes can be found using third party tools - i can't find a 5000 cr/t profit route via a third party tool. i can find one without using a third party tool, or by using third party tools for finding a potential source.

if you can, please link it - it does not be your trade route, if it is only about using a third party tool.

to qoute you:

Shifting 200 tons ... If I use third party apps, I can find trade routes that give me upwards of 1 million for the same amount of tonnage over even shorter routes.

so please do.

you don't want to share your trade route, that is fine - but i don't think you have found your trade route using a third party tool, at least not in the usual way. maybe you used it to scout potential sources - but it did not give you that route. which is basically what i was saying above ;-)

 

[Tomx]

imperial slaves have a max profit of 4731 cr/t. with 200T of cargo you end up at 946 200 cr/t. that includes buying them from torval space, Chujohimba, Yu Hub which is the lowest purchase price. but below 25 ly they "only" have a profit of 4310 cr... you'd be better of trading Medical Diagostics Equipment state depending ;-)

anyway plus 200 k profit for autofabicators that would be 5410 - 5731 cr/profit/t, which is a respectable profit.

but you claim those routes can be found using third party tools - i can't find a 5000 cr/t profit route via a third party tool. i can find one without using a third party tool, or by using third party tools for finding a potential source.

if you can, please link it - it does not be your trade route, if it is only about using a third party tool.

to qoute you:



so please do.

you don't want to share your trade route, that is fine - but i don't think you have found your trade route using a third party tool, at least not in the usual way. maybe you used it to scout potential sources - but it did not give you that route. which is basically what i was saying above ;-)

I think there's some confusion by what is meant by trading route - I think the poster means 200t making more than 1million on a trading loop (i.e. both ways - repeatable)

 

[Herne]

I won't get a chance to try the tips received here until tomorrow evening now. Thank you to everyone who gave some helpful tips though. I will report back with how I get on.

 

[Jezzah]

I still think there's a place for trading as it currently stands in ED. However I do think that FD could expand a lot more on the "rares trading". I think it would be great if lots more of the systems in game produced their own unique goods which are highly sought after elsewhere further away.

But to add to that for example say an agricultural system is in boom and requires progenitor cells...That's great you can supply them with the vanilla progenitor cells BUT if you go the extra mile and supply them with "Cubeo super progenitor cells" you'll get a much greater return for your money especially over longer distances. None of this limits on amounts the system spawns a large amount that are refreshed over a few days first come first served. Like in real world.This perhaps would also multiply your effect on community trading standards goals.

Dunno if it's a good idea or not but I do think the rare trading thing is underused and weakly implemented and could used to make general trading more interesting.

 

[Herne]

CMDR's log - Locate trading route attempt 1

Step 1 Filter Map as per 777driver describes - "Filter the gal map for Outbreaks, Famine, Warzones, Boom states etc. Trade smart and you can make very large profits on top of regular haulage missions."

sort map by states and only left the following checked
War
boom
outbreaks
famine

located lots of boom systems, eventually found hip 11958 which was in famine.

decided I need food, so search for boom agricultural and found TROCMII
checked eddb to see when trocmii was last updated = 4 days


not knowing at this stage what agriculture products may be in demand at the other side I take roughly equal amounts of everything except algae.
set a course for hip 11958

animal meat bought 1046 sell 2665
coffee bought 1030 sell 1800
fish bought 287 sell 2066
fruit & veg bought 193 sell 1723
grain bought 115 sell 1644
tea bought 1275 sell 1992

all commodities a success, with fish, animal meat, fruit and veg looking the most promising.


now what to take back to trocmii ? eddb says Economy: Agriculture (Military, Colony, Industrial)

eddb suggested an old biowaste. will give it a go. ran out of biowaste, so filled cobalt as well

cobolt bought 199 sell 373
biowaste bought 9 sell 106

Considering I had a 3 system hop each way due to the 34 LY range, and the slightly less than 2k A - B - A This route wasn't great. But It worked. Using the tips provided in this thread I was able to make a profit.

@Goemon You seem to know your stuff when it comes to trading in ED. have you considered making a comprehensive guide ? I think a modern comprehensive guide for trading would be most welcome to a lot of players.

Mind if I ask what kind of systems I should look for as a good place to buy Imp Slaves ?