Trident. Is there something wrong here?!

[sinkarma]

So... I unlocked the trident first and I have to say I am very dissapointed.

For a moment I thought all guardian fighters were all flash and no bite.

I tried using the trident against a human ship: little to no damage dealt.

Then tried using it against a thargoid cyclops: little to no damage dealt.

I felt really depressed.

BUT THEN

I SAW IN THIS THREAD: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/444142-Guardian-fighter-stats

That Trident DPS is 8 while the other two fighters have a dps of 90 and 130!

WHAT?!
You telling me the trident is worthless junk ship?!

So... I'm going to go get the other fighters and test them...

And for now leave this question in the air: Is the trident bugged or does it have some hidden use?

 

[lesscode]

So... I unlocked the trident first and I have to say I am very dissapointed.

For a moment I thought all guardian fighters were all flash and no bite.

I tried using the trident against a human ship: little to no damage dealt.

Then tried using it against a thargoid cyclops: little to no damage dealt.

I felt really depressed.

BUT THEN

I SAW IN THIS THREAD: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/444142-Guardian-fighter-stats

That Trident DPS is 8 while the other two fighters have a dps of 90 and 130!

WHAT?!
You telling me the trident is worthless junk ship?!

So... I'm going to go get the other fighters and test them...

And for now leave this question in the air: Is the trident bugged or does it have some hidden use?

I haven't tried it yet, but I think it has a plasma charger. Are you holding the fire button down to charge it? I think you'll get more D's if you put more S's into the charge.

 

[sinkarma]

I haven't tried it yet, but I think it has a plasma charger. Are you holding the fire button down to charge it? I think you'll get more D's if you put more S's into the charge.

Nope.
Its a plasma repeater. not a plasma charger
Also you have to hold in the button to make it fire.
You press... wait a second.. then it starts spewing out little balls of fairies and tickles

 

[lesscode]

Nope.
Its a plasma repeater. not a plasma charger
Also you have to hold in the button to make it fire.
You press... wait a second.. then it starts spewing out little balls of fairies and tickles

Well that doesn't sound right. Won't be unlocking that one. Glad I started with the Javelin...

 

[Prorokpl]

It must be a bug couse on stream today it had like 48 DPS

 

[sinkarma]

It must be a bug couse on stream today it had like 48 DPS

really?!
O...o

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I think in that post "DPS" stands for Damage PER SHOT, not per second. Depending on how fast they shoot, damage per second could be very different.

 

[M. Volgrand]

So... I unlocked the trident first and I have to say I am very dissapointed.

For a moment I thought all guardian fighters were all flash and no bite.

I tried using the trident against a human ship: little to no damage dealt.

Then tried using it against a thargoid cyclops: little to no damage dealt.

I felt really depressed.

BUT THEN

I SAW IN THIS THREAD: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/444142-Guardian-fighter-stats

That Trident DPS is 8 while the other two fighters have a dps of 90 and 130!

WHAT?!
You telling me the trident is worthless junk ship?!

So... I'm going to go get the other fighters and test them...

And for now leave this question in the air: Is the trident bugged or does it have some hidden use?

I muticrewed with another commander just to try the new SLF.
I tried the trident against human ships and I can say it certainly did a lot of damage. Can't tell you exact numbers, however I did lower a Dangerous Eagle to 0% (shields and armor) in 3 full bursts. I highly doubt that the DPS is just 8. Maybe in that thread they ment damage per shot?

 

[sinkarma]

So I did some tests... I'll upload the video footage for the tests a lil later
Of the guardian fighters shooting at a stock keelback

This is what I got
Guardian trident took +-45 seconds to reduce a stock keelback From full shields down to 30% hull
Guardian Lance took +-35 seconds to reduce a stock keelback From full shields down to 30% hull
Guardian Javelin took +-20 seconds to reduce a stock keelback From full shields down to 30% hull

Also due note the lance killed itself from overheating and trident came close to killing itself however javelin didn't overheat

SO!

I was wrong. Trident does do damage. BUT! its still very much worse than the other 2

 

[Prorokpl]

It must be a bug couse on stream today it had like 48 DPS

My mistake, 44.

 

[Ziljan]

So I did some tests... I'll upload the video footage for the tests a lil later
Of the guardian fighters shooting at a stock keelback

This is what I got
Guardian trident took +-45 seconds to reduce a stock keelback From full shields down to 30% hull
Guardian Lance took +-35 seconds to reduce a stock keelback From full shields down to 30% hull
Guardian Javelin took +-20 seconds to reduce a stock keelback From full shields down to 30% hull

Also due note the lance killed itself from overheating and trident came close to killing itself however javelin didn't overheat

SO!

I was wrong. Trident does do damage. BUT! its still very much worse than the other 2

I think this may have to do with the negative thermal resists on stock gear (Jav and Lance both do thermal damage, Trident does absolute). So that test isn't a good indicator to what you find in the wilds with even moderate thermal resists on shield/hull.

My experience, the Trident does the most damage of all 3 Guardian ships vs humans overall because it's absolute. I suspect that the 8 DPS is a typo. While it does't do a "lot" of damage vs human, the other two are even worse. The Lance won't even drop the shields of an NPC ship, and the Javelin only does quasi decent shield damage, with massive jitter, and does negligible hull damage.

All told, I am not surprised that the Trident doesn't do much damage vs Thargoids either because it's a compromise ship half vs human, half vs thargoid, which means it's going to suck at both tasks, and it does.

Imo, they could balance this a bit by massively reducing the heat generated by the Plasma Auto Cannon.

 

[Kamiyoda]

I think this may have to do with the negative thermal resists on stock gear (Jav and Lance both do thermal damage, Trident does absolute). So that test isn't a good indicator to what you find in the wilds with even moderate thermal resists on shield/hull.

My experience, the Trident does the most damage of all 3 Guardian ships vs humans overall because it's absolute. I suspect that the 8 DPS is a typo. While it does't do a "lot" of damage vs human, the other two are even worse. The Lance won't even drop the shields of an NPC ship, and the Javelin only does quasi decent shield damage, with massive jitter, and does negligible hull damage.

All told, I am not surprised that the Trident doesn't do much damage vs Thargoids either because it's a compromise ship half vs human, half vs thargoid, which means it's going to suck at both tasks, and it does.

Imo, they could balance this a bit by massively reducing the heat it by the Plasma Auto Cannon.

You would think, but it does Anti Xeno Absolute Damage, so it still gets reduced just as bad. I remember trying out Huge PAs against Scouts thinking it would be some Wonder weapon. It was packing less damage than a Plasma Charger. Sad times.

 

[Ziljan]

You would think, but it does Anti Xeno Absolute Damage, so it still gets reduced just as bad. I remember trying out Huge PAs against Scouts thinking it would be some Wonder weapon. It was packing less damage than a Plasma Charger. Sad times.

I agree 100%. The design choice to make players either ineffective vs humans or ineffective vs aliens was a choice that created hurdles to having fun, and delegitimized previous hard won builds.

Crossing my fingers for a lore based retrofit that can fully integrate existing human weapons into the xeno wars.

 

[Urazz]

What I find annoying is that all 3 fighters require epsilon data. That's just g insane there as it's one of the rarest datas you can get from guardian sites. I still need to grind up some to unlock at least one fighter. I was planning to unlock all 3 but it just doesn't seem worth it with the vessel blueprint location swarmed guardian drones and the heavy requirement for epsilon data. I think I'll just stick with one then.

From what I've seen the Trident plasma auto cannons has unlimited ammo so that can be a plus for it I guess but I doubt ammo will be an issue since fighters tend to not survive that well against tharoids.

The Lance fighter has heat issues from what I've seen so at the most, you can only fire one shot of the gauss cannons before overheating so you can't boost around like a fly so much with that one.

The javelin has the best damage from what I've seen but has to be close range so against an interceptor, that's pretty chancy proposition there.

Personally, I think the fighters need more hull/shields. Yes, they are more maneuverable than a taipan but they use weapons that are crap against human ships. If I'm going to use a fighter against human ships, it'll be one of the original 3 fighters that can actually do decently against human ships.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

The 8 DPS is misleading.

Plasma is ABSOLUTE damage, and you're firing tonnes of shots off before your capacitor depletes.

So even though it is only 8 DPS, it is doing is absolute maximum damage to whatever it hits, whereas the other two weapons will be affected by resistances.

 

[Kamiyoda]

The 8 DPS is misleading.

Plasma is ABSOLUTE damage, and you're firing tonnes of shots off before your capacitor depletes.

So even though it is only 8 DPS, it is doing is absolute maximum damage to whatever it hits, whereas the other two weapons will be affected by resistances.

Unless its not a thargoid, then it gets the same damage penalty all Weapons that do AX damage get.

The Absolute/Thermal/Kinetic Categories do not superceed this, unfortunately.

 

[CMDR Dreamstate]

Unless its not a thargoid, then it gets the same damage penalty all Weapons that do AX damage get.

The Absolute/Thermal/Kinetic Categories do not superceed this, unfortunately.

All damage of AX weapons (and guardians) show what it does to human ships (they changed this in a minor patch a few months back) - generally, you double what you see on screen against thargoids.

 

[Kamiyoda]

All damage of AX weapons (and guardians) show what it does to human ships (they changed this in a minor patch a few months back) - generally, you double what you see on screen against thargoids.

They really don't. If they did AX Multicannons (In fact when they were first introduced people thaought that was the case, turned out to not be true) would be better than base normal Multicannons for instance. And I tested this recently with the new fighters. For instance, the Lance says it does 94 Damage per shot. Shot it at my Stock Keelback with a HRP. Did only 30 damage.

 

[SushiCW]

I agree 100%. The design choice to make players either ineffective vs humans or ineffective vs aliens was a choice that created hurdles to having fun, and delegitimized previous hard won builds.

Crossing my fingers for a lore based retrofit that can fully integrate existing human weapons into the xeno wars.

+2 fingers crossed.

 

[Jaylem]

My personal recommendation;

-Trident is average at Interceptor combat, still viable but not as good as the other 2 where those high damage shots come into play. definitely recommended for scouts for it's rate of fire!

-Javelin is the opposite, fantastic for interceptor combat! but as the pilot missed most of the shot against Interceptors it's use against scouts is questionable.

-Lance is great against both, heat is a HUGE issue but otherwise it's pretty versatile.