Truesilver’s Tests, No.4: Ramming damage (Part A)
PART A: SHIP TYPES, MASS & HRP’s
Welcome to another security lapse concerning Adle’s Armada’s hitherto top secret data, this time concerning ramming damage. In Part A I’m going to focus on the variables (or lack of?) in relation to ships, mass & HRP’s, before in a future Part B coming to the full extent and manner of calculation of the damage itself.
To liven the format up a bit, I’ll begin with some video vigilante violence, then present some test data, then discuss in a Q+A. Note that the Q+A is based on both the controlled testing and extensive corroboration in live PvP.
Here’s the vigilante bit (the hostiles were murdering Cmdrs at a CG - Adle’s Armada responded):
[video=youtube_share;OKyIG9TToQU]https://youtu.be/OKyIG9TToQU[/video]
Hopefully that’s set the mood. Now, on to the testing…
TESTING IN 1.5 BETA: RAMMING, MASS & HRP’S
All testing was carried out in 1.5 Beta. The objective was to determine whether there are any factors other than mass and velocity that influence ramming damage – such as ship type, or the fitting of HRP’s. Four ships were used: the same ‘target’ vessel throughout, being a shieldless hull tank Fer-de-Lance with every available slot fitted with HRP’s, and three ‘bullet’ vessels, which were:
1. The HRP FAS: a shieldless Federal Assault Ship with every available slot filled with hull reinforcements – total ship mass 864 tons.
2. The SCB Clipper: a shielded Imperial Clipper but with the shield deactivated and every other slot filled with SCB’s – yet no HRP’s – total ship mass 864 tons.
3. ‘Mr Fruity’: a Lakon Type 7 with neither shield nor HRP’s but instead cargo racks filled with fruit and vegetables – total ship mass (including fruit’n’veg) of 864 tons.
Each ship was rammed in turn into the armoured Fer-de-Lance, which was obligingly piloted by AA FdL Ace, Cmdr Breakfastmelon (to whom, thanks again). Three precise impact velocities were used throughout, although we did vary which ship was moving and which was stationary. The speeds were 95 mps, 191 mps and 234 mps. To ensure consistency, each test was duplicated many times with results checked by both pilots.
Here are the results as % damage to the FdL, broken down by ramming vessel and impact velocity ('-' means not tested):
Q+A
So what determines how much ramming damage a ship causes?
Its mass and velocity.
Does it make any difference what type of ship you are in?
No, unless it affects mass and velocity. All ships are, to the game collision engine, otherwise the same object.
What about ones with pointy noses … or high mass to volume … or military background?
Hee hee hee - no, no, no.
There are some ‘gameplay numbers’ in ED though, aren’t there – like the mass inhibition values?
Yes, but ramming (more accurately, ‘collision’) damage isn’t one of them. Every ship just acts as an object of its mass and velocity. There are no ship types. FAS = Type 7. Clipper = FAS. Type 7 = Clipper.
Do HRP’s increase ramming damage?
Only in so far as they add mass. A cargo of fruit will increase the damage by the same amount, per ton. HRP = fruit. SCB = HRP. Fruit = SCB.
You mean … HRP’s are ramming useless?
No … firstly, as noted, they do add mass. But also, crucially, they add hit points. It mostly comes down to hp ‘buckets’. A shieldless FAS typically has about 2,600 hit points in one bucket. A shielded, SCB-based Clipper has similar mass and more hit points but the hp are divided into three buckets (base shield, SCB reserve, hull). The former, shieldless build is not necessarily better in a ramming fight but it is easier to use.
Do you mean that a shielded SCB build could actually win a ‘bumper cars’ bout against a shieldless HRP build?
Oh yeah.
What about E-class HRP’s?
They add double the mass and only slightly fewer hit points. The modest top speed penalty is of little relevance. So, if you can engineer a collision, they are superior to D-class. However, in terms of actually achieving the ram, stacking E-class HRP’s can severely reduce manoeuvrability.
OK, being as specific as possible, how does the game determine ramming damage?
Here we risk trespassing on Part B. For now let’s just say that I believe it works as follows:
1. Game determines total collision mass
2. Game determines total collision velocity
3. Game thus determines total collision damage
4. Game apportions total collision damage in proportion to mass
5. Damage is applied to available hit points
When you say ‘in proportion to mass’ do you mean that if I weigh more, I both do more damage and take less damage?
Yes. In truth almost everything I have said here, including this, was revealed at least a year ago by ramming guru, Cmdr Battleship Kickass. My tests and experiences merely confirm the accuracy of Battleship’s propositions. In 1.3 I was flying my 960 ton purpose-built ramming Clipper, ‘Grond’, into the noses of conventional player pirate Clippers and observing favourable results consistent with my greater mass.
Does it make any difference whether you are the ‘bullet’ or the ‘target’?
No, which ship is moving or not moving makes zero difference, it’s total combined velocity that counts. We tested with FdL stationary, with Mr Fruity stationary, etc and it’s all the same. This is corroborated by Cmdr MJC here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203010
In the above thread, note that imo poster no.10 (Cmdr Frenotx) gets it right, as ever - shared total collision damage is just combined mass and combined velocity at impact, with damage distribution between the two vessels determined by proportion of combined mass.
Well, I still can’t believe it’s just mass - and I’m going to prove you wrong!
Please do! This is a complex topic. But be aware that anecdote about a fight in which some guy out-rammed you won’t cut it lol … structured testing in which damage is shown to be disproportionate to mass, that could do it! I have to say that I don’t think we’ll see any such data but I would love to be proven wrong and to have to discover why …
Coming in Part B: the calculation, extent and apportionment of ramming damage.
o7
TRUESILVER
Adle’s Armada
www.inara.cz/wing/336
PART A: SHIP TYPES, MASS & HRP’s
Welcome to another security lapse concerning Adle’s Armada’s hitherto top secret data, this time concerning ramming damage. In Part A I’m going to focus on the variables (or lack of?) in relation to ships, mass & HRP’s, before in a future Part B coming to the full extent and manner of calculation of the damage itself.
To liven the format up a bit, I’ll begin with some video vigilante violence, then present some test data, then discuss in a Q+A. Note that the Q+A is based on both the controlled testing and extensive corroboration in live PvP.
Here’s the vigilante bit (the hostiles were murdering Cmdrs at a CG - Adle’s Armada responded):
[video=youtube_share;OKyIG9TToQU]https://youtu.be/OKyIG9TToQU[/video]
Hopefully that’s set the mood. Now, on to the testing…
TESTING IN 1.5 BETA: RAMMING, MASS & HRP’S
All testing was carried out in 1.5 Beta. The objective was to determine whether there are any factors other than mass and velocity that influence ramming damage – such as ship type, or the fitting of HRP’s. Four ships were used: the same ‘target’ vessel throughout, being a shieldless hull tank Fer-de-Lance with every available slot fitted with HRP’s, and three ‘bullet’ vessels, which were:
1. The HRP FAS: a shieldless Federal Assault Ship with every available slot filled with hull reinforcements – total ship mass 864 tons.
2. The SCB Clipper: a shielded Imperial Clipper but with the shield deactivated and every other slot filled with SCB’s – yet no HRP’s – total ship mass 864 tons.
3. ‘Mr Fruity’: a Lakon Type 7 with neither shield nor HRP’s but instead cargo racks filled with fruit and vegetables – total ship mass (including fruit’n’veg) of 864 tons.
Each ship was rammed in turn into the armoured Fer-de-Lance, which was obligingly piloted by AA FdL Ace, Cmdr Breakfastmelon (to whom, thanks again). Three precise impact velocities were used throughout, although we did vary which ship was moving and which was stationary. The speeds were 95 mps, 191 mps and 234 mps. To ensure consistency, each test was duplicated many times with results checked by both pilots.
Here are the results as % damage to the FdL, broken down by ramming vessel and impact velocity ('-' means not tested):
| 864 t rammer | 95 mps | 191 mps | 234 mps |
| FAS with HRP's | 3% | 5% | 7% |
| iClipper with SCB's | - | 5% | 7% |
| Mr Fruity | 3% | 5% | - |
Q+A
So what determines how much ramming damage a ship causes?
Its mass and velocity.
Does it make any difference what type of ship you are in?
No, unless it affects mass and velocity. All ships are, to the game collision engine, otherwise the same object.
What about ones with pointy noses … or high mass to volume … or military background?
Hee hee hee - no, no, no.
There are some ‘gameplay numbers’ in ED though, aren’t there – like the mass inhibition values?
Yes, but ramming (more accurately, ‘collision’) damage isn’t one of them. Every ship just acts as an object of its mass and velocity. There are no ship types. FAS = Type 7. Clipper = FAS. Type 7 = Clipper.
Do HRP’s increase ramming damage?
Only in so far as they add mass. A cargo of fruit will increase the damage by the same amount, per ton. HRP = fruit. SCB = HRP. Fruit = SCB.
You mean … HRP’s are ramming useless?
No … firstly, as noted, they do add mass. But also, crucially, they add hit points. It mostly comes down to hp ‘buckets’. A shieldless FAS typically has about 2,600 hit points in one bucket. A shielded, SCB-based Clipper has similar mass and more hit points but the hp are divided into three buckets (base shield, SCB reserve, hull). The former, shieldless build is not necessarily better in a ramming fight but it is easier to use.
Do you mean that a shielded SCB build could actually win a ‘bumper cars’ bout against a shieldless HRP build?
Oh yeah.
What about E-class HRP’s?
They add double the mass and only slightly fewer hit points. The modest top speed penalty is of little relevance. So, if you can engineer a collision, they are superior to D-class. However, in terms of actually achieving the ram, stacking E-class HRP’s can severely reduce manoeuvrability.
OK, being as specific as possible, how does the game determine ramming damage?
Here we risk trespassing on Part B. For now let’s just say that I believe it works as follows:
1. Game determines total collision mass
2. Game determines total collision velocity
3. Game thus determines total collision damage
4. Game apportions total collision damage in proportion to mass
5. Damage is applied to available hit points
When you say ‘in proportion to mass’ do you mean that if I weigh more, I both do more damage and take less damage?
Yes. In truth almost everything I have said here, including this, was revealed at least a year ago by ramming guru, Cmdr Battleship Kickass. My tests and experiences merely confirm the accuracy of Battleship’s propositions. In 1.3 I was flying my 960 ton purpose-built ramming Clipper, ‘Grond’, into the noses of conventional player pirate Clippers and observing favourable results consistent with my greater mass.
Does it make any difference whether you are the ‘bullet’ or the ‘target’?
No, which ship is moving or not moving makes zero difference, it’s total combined velocity that counts. We tested with FdL stationary, with Mr Fruity stationary, etc and it’s all the same. This is corroborated by Cmdr MJC here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203010
In the above thread, note that imo poster no.10 (Cmdr Frenotx) gets it right, as ever - shared total collision damage is just combined mass and combined velocity at impact, with damage distribution between the two vessels determined by proportion of combined mass.
Well, I still can’t believe it’s just mass - and I’m going to prove you wrong!
Please do! This is a complex topic. But be aware that anecdote about a fight in which some guy out-rammed you won’t cut it lol … structured testing in which damage is shown to be disproportionate to mass, that could do it! I have to say that I don’t think we’ll see any such data but I would love to be proven wrong and to have to discover why …
Coming in Part B: the calculation, extent and apportionment of ramming damage.
o7
TRUESILVER
Adle’s Armada
www.inara.cz/wing/336
