Engineers Turrets & Long Range modding?

[V'larr]

So are laser turrets capable of benefitting from the Long Range modification? Or are they limited by the AI to fire only within 3KM?

Additionally, is the jitter bad enough at those distances that the point is moot anyway?

Would it be worth at least using a grade 1 Long Range mod on a turret (mostly to benefit from no damage drop-off up through 3km) as opposed to, say, rapid fire?

 

[PetroVitallini]

I have a plan to try long range turrets. I've tried using burst turrets unmodded and it seems to my observations that they don't seem to hit much at 3k. I figured this from watching hits on the shields on the target holographic and disregarding damage as the lasers are unmodded. Mostly targeting small and medium ships. Would love to hear people's experiences! Need to try it out some more though.

 

[CMDR BOSLEY]

I have had long range beam on my cutter's medium nacelle hardpoints since before the buff and they have always been great. Grade 3 that are hitting beyond 3km.

 

[fus roh potato]

Long range does ok with turrets. The problem is they don't fire on anything further than 2k, plus the turret and gimbal wiggle makes them near useless beyond that range anyways. You lose out on the benefits of long range that clearly make it a better choice.

Concerning lasers, the damage dropoff will increase your dps by 0% at 600 range, 25% at 1200 and 50% at 1800 (the damage stays the same at all ranges). This means your overall DPE at 1800 will be the same between efficient and long range, but your DPS will be higher. I'd guess that efficient are overall slightly better for slow boats running turrets, because your targets won't always be that far away.

And one more thing, yes, I believe that G1 or G2 Long Range will push you past 1800 falloff. There's no point going any higher for gimbals and turrets. It just makes the weapon heavier and drain more power.

 

[Morbad]

I've seen long range turrets engage targets past 4km, but you need to be able to resolve the target at considerably beyond this range....good sensors and emissive weapons help.

 

[PetroVitallini]

Can someone explain to me why the long range blueprint has a property called damage drop off start? I thought long range was supposed to have no damage drop off?

 

[jgm]

https://coriolis.edcd.io/ now has falloff information, and has incorporated it in to the 'Damage Dealt' section so you can see the different that putting on a long-range modification makes depending on the range at which you're firing at your target.

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Can someone explain to me why the long range blueprint has a property called damage drop off start? I thought long range was supposed to have no damage drop off?

The damage drop off for long range will be the same as the maximum range for long-range modifications.

 

[Prasinus]

I have a couple of small pulse turrets modded to g4 long range on my Gunship. One engages at over 4km, the other around 4km. I find them useful as once engaged the target tends to come to you so that you can kill them!
Originally modded them while ranking up with Broo to get a g5 upgrade on my other pulses.

 

[PetroVitallini]

https://coriolis.edcd.io/ now has falloff information, and has incorporated it in to the 'Damage Dealt' section so you can see the different that putting on a long-range modification makes depending on the range at which you're firing at your target.

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The damage drop off for long range will be the same as the maximum range for long-range modifications.

Just to be sure. I was describing the in-game blue print. Does this mean they havent updated the GUI for this change?

 

[jgm]

Just to be sure. I was describing the in-game blue print. Does this mean they havent updated the GUI for this change?

Every weapon has a falloff value. Although FD say that long range removes the falloff, they achieve this behind the scenes by setting the falloff to be the same as the range. It has the same end result.

 

[Buliel]

I'd say put a grade 1 long range mod on the turrets. You lose out a lot less and I'm not sure turrets would manage to hit at long distance.

 

[PetroVitallini]

Every weapon has a falloff value. Although FD say that long range removes the falloff, they achieve this behind the scenes by setting the falloff to be the same as the range. It has the same end result.

I get what you are saying but......when I visited an engineer today I saw the following. The blue print has a few properties like all blue prints do (yay captain obvious points for me). Increased range is one of them, projectile speed is one of them, then you have a couple of negatives and then you have a blue property called "damage fall off start" which is a value of positive 150 to 250 % or so (dont remember quite the numbers). I want to know what this last property is all about because it did not exist before this last patch as far as I know. Also the multiplier range of this property is lower in rank 1 than in rank 5. This suggest to me that increased range is well and good, but if you get a bad damage fall of start roll that would mean that your turret will not be all that. Meaning that this is the most important stat, as getting above 5000 in range is no problem. This also would mean that a level 1 long range turret might not be that good after all as there will be a limitation on damage fall of.

I might be totally wrong and this property is not mentioned in patch notes, but why add something that has no function?

 

[jgm]

I get what you are saying but......when I visited an engineer today I saw the following. The blue print has a few properties like all blue prints do (yay captain obvious points for me). Increased range is one of them, projectile speed is one of them, then you have a couple of negatives and then you have a blue property called "damage fall off start" which is a value of positive 150 to 250 % or so (dont remember quite the numbers). I want to know what this last property is all about because it did not exist before this last patch as far as I know. Also the multiplier range of this property is lower in rank 1 than in rank 5. This suggest to me that increased range is well and good, but if you get a bad damage fall of start roll that would mean that your turret will not be all that. Meaning that this is the most important stat, as getting above 5000 in range is no problem. This also would mean that a level 1 long range turret might not be that good after all as there will be a limitation on damage fall of.

I might be totally wrong and this property is not mentioned in patch notes, but why add something that has no function?

You will never have a bad roll, falloff will always be the same as max range one engineering is complete.

Falloff has always been present, it just wasn't visible until the last patch.

 

[X-Terminator]

For my Python I only use the Long Range Gimble Beam along with 2 Turet Beams but need to switch groups to knock them off to avoid over heating and destruction as 3 Beams get you hot fast then add to that the Thermal attacks you get. Thing is with Turets you still need something at least to start their fire unless you have Fire At Will and come under attack 1st (not the best tactic). Beams are less effective anyways for the hull so you may as well then switch off Turets by Group and control your heat to then use MCs mainly. I find the Long Range Beam alone sometimes is all that is required at 3km to get your hit and claim the kill without a fight!

 

[PetroVitallini]

You will never have a bad roll, falloff will always be the same as max range one engineering is complete.

Falloff has always been present, it just wasn't visible until the last patch.

Ok, I might be dense, but this doesnt make sense. Adding a new property roll (not range) with a name that implies it increases the range for where damage fall off starts and then it does not do anything? Meaning on a pulse laser and max roll (250%) you would get 500x2.5= 1250. That makes sense to me. Do you know what the property damage fall off start does and what does its multiplier is for?

 

[Klab]

I put a long range healing beam turret on the large slot underneath my Corvette. It is very useful (has it's own firegroup) either as a long range healer, or pulling ships that are far away, into the wing I am with. Range is 5.2km.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Ok, I might be dense, but this doesnt make sense. Adding a new property roll (not range) with a name that implies it increases the range for where damage fall off starts and then it does not do anything? Meaning on a pulse laser and max roll (250%) you would get 500x2.5= 1250. That makes sense to me. Do you know what the property damage fall off start does and what does its multiplier is for?

From the patch notes:
- Long Range now removes damage falloff from range on the weapon.

Not sure which new property you refer to (?).

 

[V'larr]

"damage fall off start"

It's easier to explain with a graph...normally it's the range at which your damage starts being reduced by range, and decreases linearly up until the listed max range.

The long range blueprint, currently, just matches that range up with the max range, effectively removing all range-related damage fall-off for the mod.

Strictly in terms of that blueprint, it may seem kind of redundant to show that, but I think it's very useful info overall, personally.

__

Still kind of waiting for concrete info about how the turret AI behaves with it....

 

[PetroVitallini]

It's easier to explain with a graph...normally it's the range at which your damage starts being reduced by range, and decreases linearly up until the listed max range.

The long range blueprint, currently, just matches that range up with the max range, effectively removing all range-related damage fall-off for the mod.

Strictly in terms of that blueprint, it may seem kind of redundant to show that, but I think it's very useful info overall, personally.

Ok, now I think I understand. From what I have read from people testing. A pulse laser starts loosing damage at 500 meters. Different weapons have different falloff curves. I believed that the falloff start was a multiplier in the blueprint you used on the different weapons first damage falloff point. I still don`t get the math right, but then again I`m not good at math.

Thank you all for your patience

 

[PetroVitallini]

Ok, well to try to give a little something back in this thread.

I`ve tried long range turrets on an anaconda and it leaves plenty to be desired. First of all the turret aim drift leaves this useless for what I was hoping I would get out it (laser turret boat). My experience is as follows. Attack enemy at 4000 meters. You will hit very little, in most cases this leads to your enemy using chaff which means you hit nothing. If they dont use chaff you will not start to make good damage before they are at 2000-1500 meters out. Usually they are coming right for you and its a matter of seconds before you are in close combat range and the point of using the long range mod is all but gone. From my experience long range mod is of little use on anything except fixed weapons.

I have had fun and good performance with long range moded rails and plasma accelerators (havent tried cannons but should be the same as PA I think). For PA it makes hitting targets at 1500-2500 meter alot easier. I quite often experience having the enemy around 2500 meters after a pass or a turn and long range PA opens op for some satisfying long range sniping.