Type-10 Balance Discussion - How to make the battle cow viable

[Radixbase]

I am introducing a friend to the game and we are doing some Cowboy Beebop type stuff where he is an interceptor and I am a mobile artillery piece/loot storage. I recently cleaned out my bank to buy the T-10 and was wondering how I should build it for a gunboat/support ship. Cant believe after 200 hours i still feel like a complete newbie.

Boy is this thing a chungus.

First post on the forum too, hopefully it isn't the last in the thread!

Tips on non chungus-ing it, definitely engineer the thrusters, it's actually quite nimble in normal space for it's size then. Boost turning is your friend, as is half throttle for turning.

here's a build of mine I use for fighting, the point of it is the 4 size 3s and top 2 size 2s are turrets. the 2 size 1s and the 1 size 2 are rail guns that form a tight V pattern.
all you really need to do is keep your target in an arc where the top hemisphere of your ship is facing the target and it's on the receiving end of some pain. and directly in front of you it gets all 9 weapons to the face. The Type 10 really excels as a turret boat. replace with weapons of your choice of course but the 2 double barrel flak cannons on top do some very very impressive damage.

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

 

[Matteo Kruber]

Tips on non chungus-ing it, definitely engineer the thrusters, it's actually quite nimble in normal space for it's size then.

Any clue where TF I can buy this thing and how much this is going to dent the pocketbook? We are currently LT diamond mining around Readdy Orbital and making cash, I just want to know when we can stop and have fun yk?

4 large autocannon turrets with longrange mod, and a combination of experimentals, 3 medium turreted burst lasers (also longrange), and 2 small fixed long range auto cannons

oh my god

here's a build of mine I use for fighting

these are some certified beasts

 

[Radixbase]

Any clue where TF I can buy this thing and how much this is going to dent the pocketbook? We are currently LT diamond mining around Readdy Orbital and making cash, I just want to know when we can stop and have fun yk?

so closest to Readdy with Li Yong-Rui faction (gives 15% discount off the price of the ship, better than the 10% at Jameson: Regular cost is 124,755,342 with the 15% discount should be 106,042,040

By the way, outfitting it is going to cost as well .. I think my ship value right now is just over 550 million. The 8A fuel scoop ain't cheap

Hertz Station	Pathan	Independent	L	433 ls	22 hours	101.00 ly
McMonagle Port	Pathan	Federation	L	121 ls	3 hours	101.00 ly
Qureshi City	Bondranses	Alliance	L	964 ls	5 hours	108.81 ly
Kuhn Station	Wolf 186	Alliance	L	754 ls	40 mins	112.18 ly

 

[Wargrum]

I tried a short range flak cannon build, and the damage output is insane, but for some reason Flak Cannon Turret range is way way shorter than normal. And pretty much all you can do when ships run is wave. Having a couple to mangle fighters that get in close is a pretty good idea though. The big multi cannon turrets can struggle to follow those. And shotgun carnage is always fun.
On the shotgun build idea... I discovered that the Guardian Shard Cannon matches up pretty well with the flak cannons, and do thermal dmg. They are amazing at stripping shields of a ship. But their range sucks just like the Flak Cannon does.... i love the build but get much better mileage out of Multicannon turrets. And long range is your friend.

 

[Radixbase]

so closest to Readdy with Li Yong-Rui faction (gives 15% discount off the price of the ship, better than the 10% at Jameson: Regular cost is 124,755,342 with the 15% discount should be 106,042,040

Hertz Station	Pathan	Independent	L	433 ls	22 hours	101.00 ly
McMonagle Port	Pathan	Federation	L	121 ls	3 hours	101.00 ly
Qureshi City	Bondranses	Alliance	L	964 ls	5 hours	108.81 ly
Kuhn Station	Wolf 186	Alliance	L	754 ls	40 mins	112.18 ly

I tried a short range flak cannon build, and the damage output is insane, but for some reason Flak Cannon Turret range is way way shorter than normal. And pretty much all you can do when ships run is wave. Having a couple to mangle fighters that get in close is a pretty good idea though. The big multi cannon turrets can struggle to follow those. And shotgun carnage is always fun.
On the shotgun build idea... I discovered that the Guardian Shard Cannon matches up pretty well with the flak cannons, and do thermal dmg. They are amazing at stripping shields of a ship. But their range sucks just like the Flak Cannon does.... i love the build but get much better mileage out of Multicannon turrets. And long range is your friend.

Hey Wargrum! long time to see!

Yeah turrets won't start firing till half the actual range . That's why I just have the two size 2s.. they're shotguns, they're for up close and personal. Usually for those annoying eagles that like to buzz over top of me, it's usually just pieces that end up on the other side

 

[Radixbase]

Just want to note too that I'm not much of a bounty hunter or anything, my weapons are for defence mainly (I'm triple elite already, nothing to prove ) so if they want to run... they can run, and they really should.

 

[Wargrum]

Heh I've still got a ways to go on my combat rank. I keep coming back to the T-10 to try and make it work for me as a battlewagon, and the speed always bites me. Its about my only frustration with this ship... all those awesome looking engines and no straightline speed at all.

Always puzzles me why I'm so fond of this big lug. All my other favourite ships tend to be small ones.

 

[Radixbase]

Heh I've still got a ways to go on my combat rank. I keep coming back to the T-10 to try and make it work for me as a battlewagon, and the speed always bites me. Its about my only frustration with this ship... all those awesome looking engines and no straightline speed at all.

Always puzzles me why I'm so fond of this big lug. All my other favourite ships tend to be small ones.

Because it's the best ship!

tactical note for getting combat elite: Load her up with 2 size 3 AX MC turrets and 2 size 2 AX MC turrets, all on the top. keep anything else, I like to keep my 3 rails on the front and bottom. .Go hunting thargoid scouts in Non Human Signals 4. each scout counts as an elite pilot.

Then, just keep the scout you have targeted in the upper hemisphere of your ship. those AX MCs will rip the scouts to shreds. The rail guns are to keep me from getting bored

 

[Wargrum]

Heh - I've smashed a few scouts with the Guardian Shard Cannons (which I was very fond of for a while). Tried to go hunting Thargoid Cyclops with a buddy once (he had a Corvette). It was comedy gold. Neither ship was fast enough to stay out of range of the damn thing, so even after we (sort of) figured out what we were doing with the swarm, we still got smashed up by all its short range defensive options.

We had a great time though - even if we were utterly ineffective and almost lost our ships on several occasions. "Run awaaaay!" was the battle cry of the evening.

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

I can't say no to certain buffs to that ship, as it does feel a bit on weaker side compared to big three. I do not agree with mass decrease, however. What I would do is just buff hull strength, and let it have shield near max value possible ~9k MJ preferably or even more, and maybe even further incease the mass of the ship, while cut on speed a bit more.

But overall, Type-10 is absolutely solid for most PVE content. If you enjoy piloting it, there are no activities you should have any issues with, especially engineered. We just have to accept that very microscopic number of ships can be viable for things like PVP or AX Combat, where metas are extremely tight and rather dumbed down, and it will never change.

Personally I actively pilot T9 (non-combat only), and enjoying it quite a lot, can't really ask for any buffs to it.

 

[ebbrell]

This was designed as a thargoid killer, it should be able to do something no other ships can because of this.

How about allow it to be the only ship which can have unlimited AX and guardian weapons.

That will make it unique

 

[Abigail]

sorry for picking up this thread. I love the T10 in the handling and her look, but i dont know how to fix her MJ problem in the weapn/engine or schield systems. In my opinion a 8. Power ditrubition will fix real many problem's the t10 have.

 

[Lightspeed]

sorry for picking up this thread. I love the T10 in the handling and her look, but i dont know how to fix her MJ problem in the weapn/engine or schield systems. In my opinion a 8. Power ditrubition will fix real many problem's the t10 have.

The T-10 benefits from engineered weapons, especially lasers to be "efficient" and hence drawing less power, for pretty much continuous beams.

It's a ship that tolerates being modified in various forms, but engineering is really really necessary to bring it to its best. A fun ship to fly and experiment with. There is no one meta build for all ... that's the sign of a great ship.

 

[Northpin]

sorry for picking up this thread. I love the T10 in the handling and her look, but i dont know how to fix her MJ problem in the weapn/engine or schield systems. In my opinion a 8. Power ditrubition will fix real many problem's the t10 have.

Nah, a better PD won't really fix the T10. Clever use of engineering and clever weapon choices will do.
Keep in mind T10 is a turret boat - and turrets have the lowest PD needs in game.

Lets not forget the Cutter has the same size PD. And it is still a viable battle platform.

 

[Fuego Estelar]

I am with abigail in this. Type 10 should get a siez 8 power distributor and about 50% shields. With that it would have yet less shields than the cutter, and yes, cutter distributor is class 7, but cutter is much faster and tanky.

 

[sandkid]

I'd argue (as I have before) much of the T-10's woes stem from module woes - not the ship itself. The way shielding works based on mass doesn't help, for starters (just like the magical weight of the anaconda has made it the way it is).

Moreover, turrets have long languished as underpowered. There are a litany of ways to balance turrets with a dmg buff (the most reasonable being to keep their tracking speed in check, rendering turrets less effective against faster targets, and the already excellent chaff launcher as another counter).

Between sorting turrets and how shielding works - which benefit a lot of ships, not just the T-10 - a lot of new builds, but none OP or broken, could be managed with more ease without demanding top tier grind and engineering. So much of Elite's combat problems (PvP or PvE) stem from really poor module balancing, not ship balancing. There's only a handful of ships truly broken (Anaconda Mass, Asp Scout, hardpoints on Type-7, C-series having three locked military slots is a bit overkill) but most work just fine.

There will always be a meta for the 'best', and that's ok. Most players aren't seeking the ultra-perfect fit - just something that feel decently effective and powerful. The T-10 struggles to fit the bill because what it is clearly built for - a turret or support platform - it can't be because the modules for that sort of play themselves can't fill that role.

 

[Abigail]

Well and that is the problem in my opinion. "The T10 ist a Turret boat" well ok Turrets are the weakest gun's, then the enemy chaff like the devil so turrets dfont hit anything and the little fighter is not real a big help. Sure with turrets the energy is more as enough but you cant kill anything except Sidewinder with turrets.

 

[sandkid]

Well and that is the problem in my opinion. "The T10 ist a Turret boat" well ok Turrets are the weakest gun's, then the enemy chaff like the devil so turrets dfont hit anything and the little fighter is not real a big help. Sure with turrets the energy is more as enough but you cant kill anything except Sidewinder with turrets.

Chaff in and of itself isn't a problem, either. Chaff does not prevent damage taken. It reduces it - certain weapons, especially beams, still hit even if at 50% or so on target. If balanced to essentially 'spray and pray' (higher fire rates, which could be used as part of the dmg buff rather than a raw dmg buff) turrets would be affected by chaff, but could still retain the utility against larger ships.

Balance the tracking speed of the turrets and you've created a module worth using for various solutions. Low power draw makes it excellent for traders and high rate of fire makes it dangerous to unprepared small craft. Large craft are easier targets, but they also have more defenses (and offense) so the buff on the turrets still sees them inferior to direct conflict with a more skilled weapon.

In direct combat scenarios, when a turret is balanced correctly, the offset is then about the ship: a T-10 is advantageous with its myriad hardpoints, high hull, and relative agility to give a firing arc to most of those weapons. SLF capability to boot. But none of that matters if the turrets still suck. Boost turrets, then revisit T-10.

As for shielding...'eh', it definitely could use some love but like I said this has more to do with how shielding works rather than how the T-10 is built. And we already know FDev is (hopefully) taking a look at that given the SCB and booster shenanigans.