Undermining by Black Market - how much is enough?

Spiridon

Spiridon
The system we want to undermine is democracy with a bunch of prohibited stuff and a nice black market for it all.

I know the general principle of "giving something 1 x 100k is less effective than giving 10 x 10k" meaning more arrivals with illegal cargo is more effective than one mega dump, but how much tonnage per arrival is enough, how much is needed to start having an effect? Is it 10 tonnes per arrival, 50, 100 tonnes?
 
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goemon

goemon
untested since years afaik. you should run a test.

if it works as a combination of previous trade test including black market and new tests on trading only https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/trading-for-influence-ii-fc-update.555082/ ...

... I'd assume, as blackmarket has worked like trading without a profit effect (! untested for the last updates)
1. any tonnage has an effect.
2. you won't get an increase above that by tonnage until ~75t. which means, bring a pythopn and smuggle ~150t+ per run. Or if you have a large pad blackmarket combine more than 1 commodity of 150t each.
 

goemon

goemon
Spiridon said:
"giving something 1 x 100k is less effective than giving 10 x 10k" meaning more arrivals with illegal cargo is more effective than one mega dump
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might be the case or not. people claimed that effect being patched out for trade, when in fact the margin for tonnage was just raised. for trade, trading 3x50 t isn't more effective anymore, than trading 150t, while trading 3x150t is more effective than trading 450t.
 

goemon

goemon
Factabulous said:
Slightly related - is there any difference in effect when selling at a BM between 'Stolen' and 'Prohibited' goods?
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there used to be in the first newsletter on the BGS ever; newer screens of the the BGS related streams don't show "piracy" (=selling stolen goods) being different to "illegal trade"(=selling illegals) anymore.
I'd say - it might be more effective to sell stolen, than illegal commdoities - it might be not.
another test to run for somebody!
 

goemon

goemon
Factabulous said:
Hmm, I happen to have a reasonable supply of stolen goods (thankyou FC). Though at 150t a drop I guess I need to get on with some more farming ;)
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and especially having 150t+ commodities of the same commodity.
if installations wouldn't be bugged, that would be my source ...
another option would be to meet up, and drop without abandoning.
after that you could "fence" it trough your FC, so that both commodities (stolen/illegal) make the same profit at the BM.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
goemon said:
and especially having 150t+ commodities of the same commodity.
if installations wouldn't be bugged, that would be my source ...
another option would be to meet up, and drop without abandoning.
after that you could "fence" it trough your FC, so that both commodities (stolen/illegal) make the same profit at the BM.
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I'm farming Toxic Waste (for another BGS experiment) at the moment from Degraded T3s, and a side-effect is that I have a supply of stolen metals / foods / salvage coming in - time to put them to a more structured use :)
 

graflex22

graflex22
in a system with over 450 million population i was able to drop the lead factions influence by 2-3% points per tick by running a 528 ton Cutter full of Landmines one time.

if i ran two loads of Landmines and ran positive Influence missions for the Patronage i was supporting there was quite the drop in the Controlling Democracy Faction's Influence.

Landmines were the only prohibited item that made me a profit in the Blackmarket. all other prohibited goods were a loss and seemed to give either no effect or positive effect to the Controlling Democracy Faction's Influence. i didn't test to confirm this as i was not keen on taking a loss on smuggling sales.
 

Spiridon

Spiridon
graflex22 said:
all other prohibited goods were a loss and seemed to give either no effect or positive effect to the Controlling Democracy Faction's Influence.
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This is the most interesting angle.

Can anyone confirm or deny if prohibited goods sold at a loss contribute the Controlling Democracy Faction? It would be a tactics changer.
 

graflex22

graflex22
Spiridon said:
This is the most interesting angle.

Can anyone confirm or deny if prohibited goods sold at a loss contribute the Controlling Democracy Faction? It would be a tactics changer.
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i may be able to soon. i plan on leaving the Democractic Faction with one asset with a Black Market so i drop their Influence as needed.

i do have a little war to fight before i can do that, though.
 

Jmanis

Jmanis
goemon said:
untested since years afaik. you should run a test.
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graflex22 said:
Landmines were the only prohibited item that made me a profit in the Blackmarket. all other prohibited goods were a loss and seemed to give either no effect or positive effect to the Controlling Democracy Faction's Influence. i didn't test to confirm this as i was not keen on taking a loss on smuggling sales.
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Because sadly smuggling is still broken AF. You might as well just negative-trade instead, since it's effects are well documented and applicable to all markets, not just social govt types :(

TBH, I wonder what effect trading for a loss on the BM has... if it actually has a net positive for the owner?
 
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