Understanding Shields and Mass

[Abil Midena]

So, I posted some questions in the outfitting forum, but the 6 people that look at that forum didn't know the answers. So, I'm posting the question a little differently and in here in the hopes that someone in a wider audience knows what they are talking about.

We have this:

SHIELD STRENGTH = (BASE SHIELD STRENGTH * MODIFIER) * SHIELD BOOSTER
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-Base Shield Strength is determined by the class and rating of the shield generator. This is a hidden figure in the game. FD devs have posted tables on the forum but some people are unsure of their accuracy. This is why edshipyard places a note on their shield strength.
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-The modifier is determined by the difference between your ship's mass and the optimum mass for your shield generator. The further you are from optimum, the more poorly your shield preforms. Also, a ship mass over the Max will not allow a shield to form. For example, take a shield that has a 50T minimum, 100T optimum, 1,000T max . Put it on a ship that weighs 100T and it will preform perfectly. The same shield on a 125T ship will have a weaker shield than the 100T ship. The same shield on a 75T ship will have a weaker shield than the 100T ship but the same as the 125T ship. The same shield on a 1,001T ship will not work.

My main question concerns, how big of a shield does a ship need to get the max shield strength. Here's the example:

We have 5 different numbers...

Base hull mass, for example, 405 (Conda).
Hull mass with loadout (weapons/modules) for example, 920.
Hull mass with loadout and full cargo/fuel, for example, 1385.

Opt shield strength, number depends on shield.
Max shield strength, number depends on shield.

To get max shield strength (not counting adding shield boosters later), what shield generator do you use? 5A (405/1013)? 6A (540/1350)? 7A (1060/2650)?

 

[Derath]

remember its base mass, not fitted mass of your ship so

Base hull mass, for example, 405 (Conda).
Hull mass with loadout (weapons/modules) for example, 920.
Hull mass with loadout and full cargo/fuel, for example, 1385.

All have the same shield strength, if they have the same shield generator, which is based off the base mass of 405 and its hidden shield multiplier.

 

[ChubbyBunneh]

I believe the shipyard stats show the true shield value now.

If you buy a Sidewinder or switch to one of your other ships you can view your old ship's stats and the modified shield value is shown.

My Anaconda with 4A shield + 5 boosters shows 654. My Python with 3A + 3 boosters is 299. Federal Dumpship with 6A shield + 2 boosters showed 320.

Now you should be able to experiment with different combinations to see how it affects your final shield strength.

 

[#43734]

So, I posted some questions in the outfitting forum, but the 6 people that look at that forum didn't know the answers. So, I'm posting the question a little differently and in here in the hopes that someone in a wider audience knows what they are talking about.

When I use the search bar, i can find i.a. this: link

 

[Abil Midena]

So, I posted some questions in the outfitting forum, but the 6 people that look at that forum didn't know the answers. So, I'm posting the question a little differently and in here in the hopes that someone in a wider audience knows what they are talking about.

When I use the search bar, i can find i.a. this: link

And when you use your eyes/brain, you see that's the post I was referring to, where there is no answer. Thanks for nothing. Try again.

- - - Updated - - -

remember its base mass, not fitted mass of your ship so

Base hull mass, for example, 405 (Conda).
Hull mass with loadout (weapons/modules) for example, 920.
Hull mass with loadout and full cargo/fuel, for example, 1385.

All have the same shield strength, if they have the same shield generator, which is based off the base mass of 405 and its hidden shield multiplier.

So doesn't that mean that every Conda out there should be using a 5A plus as many boosters as they can?

Any bigger shield, and you move away from OPT mass and therefore have a weaker shield. See what I mean?

 

[woodhouse]

So doesn't that mean that every Conda out there should be using a 5A plus as many boosters as they can?

Any bigger shield, and you move away from OPT mass and therefore have a weaker shield. See what I mean?

Yeah, the part about 75T on a 100T optimal shield being equivalent to 125T cannot be true. I am more inclined to believe the people who say that a higher optimum mass will give you improved protection until you reach 200% of the base weight of the ship.

 

[#43734]

And when you use your eyes/brain, you see that's the post I was referring to, where there is no answer. Thanks for nothing. Try again.


So doesn't that mean that every Conda out there should be using a 5A plus as many boosters as they can?
Any bigger shield, and you move away from OPT mass and therefore have a weaker shield. See what I mean?

Ok, ok! Haven´t read the linked post completely!
So brain off, eyes open, next try: new link

The opt. mass of the generator have to be compared with the base mass of the ship
In general: bigger is better, although the shield increase may be only slightly when using an "oversized" generator.
Btw the chart is from the links of the post I have linked first.

 

[Derath]

So doesn't that mean that every Conda out there should be using a 5A plus as many boosters as they can?

Any bigger shield, and you move away from OPT mass and therefore have a weaker shield. See what I mean?

No as your assuming optimal = highest shield point on the curve, optimal = the highest rate of return per mass, after that point you receive less shield per mass, but still more.

In really simple terms that won't be accurate for example lets assume its 1mj per ton up to optimal mass, then 0.5mj per ton afterwards.

Thats why ships like an asp get an increase for an A6 shield despite it being vastly over specced, it is however a much smaller upgrade than say an A3 to an A4.

 

[Don Alvarez]

I believe the shipyard stats show the true shield value now.

I noticed that. Unfortunately, the new numbers are going to scare alot of people from even LOOKING at a Dropship now with the listed shield strength a whopping 104.

 

[ChubbyBunneh]

I noticed that. Unfortunately, the new numbers are going to scare alot of people from even LOOKING at a Dropship now with the listed shield strength a whopping 104.

If my math is right the 6A shield is about 228. Still not so great. The dropship needs help bad.

 

[Abil Midena]

Ok, ok! Haven´t read the linked post completely!
So brain off, eyes open, next try: new link

The opt. mass of the generator have to be compared with the base mass of the ship
In general: bigger is better, although the shield increase may be only slightly when using an "oversized" generator.
Btw the chart is from the links of the post I have linked first.

Yeah, I think what all this is trying to say is that even though a bigger shield (6A and 7A vs 5A) is above and farther away from base mass of the Conda, their "base value" is high enough to compensate for the secret "farther away from OPT" multiplier penalty. So ED shipyard lists a higher "strength" for those shields.

edit* Lol, ninja'd by Derath as I was typing.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

There is no real need to understand since edshipyard.com gives you the shield strength, for your config, in MJ. Sometimes a class 6 shield does not make much a difference from a class 5 way cheaper.

 

[Don Alvarez]

Ok, ok! Haven´t read the linked post completely!
So brain off, eyes open, next try: new link

The opt. mass of the generator have to be compared with the base mass of the ship
In general: bigger is better, although the shield increase may be only slightly when using an "oversized" generator.
Btw the chart is from the links of the post I have linked first.

Ths link, which I think is the same chart over on the wiki, suggests that a dropship and an ASP have almost identical shield strength numbers with identical generators, even though the FDS has over twice the bass hull mass? Something don't seem right about that.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Ths link, which I think is the same chart over on the wiki, suggests that a dropship and an ASP have almost identical shield strength numbers with identical generators, even though the FDS has over twice the bass hull mass? Something don't seem right about that.

Each ship has a specific shield multiplier...

 

[Don Alvarez]

Each ship has a specific shield multiplier...

Something don't seem right about that either...

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Something don't seem right about that either...

Why? Do you believe two vacuum cleaners are as much efficient as long as they are both 1000 watts?
You buy a shield generator, the ship design optimizes its efficiency.

 

[Rauminen]

OK so here it goes.


There's a 6th number, minimum mass, for shields. This is the actual hidden value that we don't (really) know - from the game anyway.

The "base shield strength" in your equation is the number displayed for each ship on the shipyard screen (...before and in 1.2 - in 1.3 it seems to be calculated now based on equipment, not sure if this is good or bad, anyhow, offtopic)
You can see base shields strengths in edshipyard as well.

(the following numbers are made up to make the example simple to read)

Let's say, for example our shield generator has minimum mass 800, optimal 1000, maximum mass at 1200.
Now, there is another pair of numbers, a multiplier max/min that goes with this, depends on the shield generator. Let's say at the minimum the modifier is 1.5 and the maximum is 0.5 to make this simple.

The only mass you need to be thinking about is your ship's _hull mass_. Loadout, cargo, etc doesn't matter as this is not as much about mass, rather the size of the ship, since the shield needs to go around it.
But instead of looking at the length / height of the ship, they are looking at the hull mass, fair enough.

So if you put this shield on a ship with a hull mass of 1000 tons, you are exactly at the optimal mass.
Looking at the modifier, the number exactly between 1.5 and 0.5 is 1. Meaning: base shield strength * 1 * booster = your shield strength is exactly what is displayed for the ship, plus any boosters you put on.

Now from this, you can see that if your hull mass is 800 tons, you'll get the maximum 1.5 modifier, having 900 hull mass, you would have 1.25. Similarly if you go over at 1100 tons, your modifier goes down to 0.75, hitting the minimum of 0.5 at 1200 tons. And of course as you said, you can't equip the shield on a ship with a hull mass of 1201 tons.

Now the catch is, you CAN equip this shield on a 400 ton ship. But since this is way below the minimum mass, you get the same 1.5 modifier as you would get if you put it on a 600 or an 800 ton ship.

Of course we don't know the minimum mass for 100%, but we can sort of "guess" this number from the distance between the optimum and maximum. It's not easy to guess as these numbers are not this clean in reality. What we do know is that the modifier changes linearly between the min and max, hitting 1 at exactly the optimum mass. Edshipyard has most of this data, or something really close to it.

TL;DR:
- your hull mass should be WAY BELOW the shield's optimal mass for strongest protection
- use edshipyard to calculate exact values
- easter egg: try switching to a sidewinder and checking your stored ship data, switch back, change shields, check again, compare with edshipyard, give us feedback

 

[Archgeek]

Isn't it a known that shields recharge at 1MW, even when unexpanded (the blinky red circle) -- such that one should be able to find their (almost) exact shield value in megajoules by turning their shields off and on again, and simply timing the seconds from start of recharge to end of SYS cap drain?

 

[ChubbyBunneh]

Isn't it a known that shields recharge at 1MW, even when unexpanded (the blinky red circle) -- such that one should be able to find their (almost) exact shield value in megajoules by turning their shields off and on again, and simply timing the seconds from start of recharge to end of SYS cap drain?

No need to guess when the shipyard tells you the real shield values. Switch to a different ship and view your old ship's stats with different grades and sizes of shields installed to see what the actual in-game numbers are.