Universal Derivatives Trading - Making money the SMART way

[EpicHam]

When we look at the scale of the universe.
Physical trading using human labor becomes increasingly apparent that it is a VERY inefficient use of people and most certainly a lot less precise.

The real world knows this.
This is why people who're FILTHY RICH aren't hauling 400 units of terrain enrichment components .They're trading futures and doing over the counter deals on the market.

Now in Elite , the best that you can do is earn 4000-8000 credits or maybe even more if you haul lots of goods across the galaxy , but what if we could be trading 5000 , 7000 units on paper as a form of investment? Earning MILLIONS of credits in the process.

How about a new Eagle every 10 minutes?
How about hiring your own private army?
How about your own space station in Azeban?

Being on the ground doing the dirty work can be fun , but fun doesn't really feed one's appetite for wealth and power does it?

I love shooting , but I also love being rich.

 

[MrBungle]

It's a space sim/game, not a financial markets sim/game

 

[Raquel]

Trump should be locked up in a nuthouse.

 

[Cmdr Andy B]

how about NO!

its a space trading game not a stock market sim, the idea is to get in your ship now sit in an office somewhere studying spreadsheets.

 

[wstephenson]

I think he's just trying to drum up some support for the communists at Eranin. Either that or motivate some random bloodshed once luxury passenger liners are added to the game.

 

[Shiori]

Go play EVE Online, then.

You will meet a lot of financial sharks there.

 

[EpicHam]

It's a space sim/game, not a financial markets sim/game

But then how will we get RICH?

We have a form of market manipulation via trade routes denial and market oversaturation.
Why not go even further to give the more enterprising among us a chance to hit it BIG so they don't have to worry about the prospect of financial ruins at any moment?

Currently the earning method in ED is akin to starting a 1-man trucking company or being a lone merc .
Scrapping chicken poo just to get by.

its a Space Sim game , and as it is rotating around the theme of human civilization in space , it should also have a crucial element of human civilization which is the financial market... agree?

Go play EVE Online, then.

You will meet a lot of financial sharks there.

I did , but I got bored . I spent all my time earning money but not "skilling" up in the combat tree.
So I'm a quadrillionaire with NOOOooo combat skills there... which kind of defeats the purpose of making money.
You make money so you can have fun , not just for the sake of it.

 

[Ramireza]

its a space trading game

Also...

NO

Its a Space Sim that tries to simulate an living, breathing world. And OF COURSE it needs a realistic market simulation, this could also include a stock market, why not? I must admit that i get a little bit angry about all the ppl that "just" want to replay their 1984 Elite expierence. The game needs to evolve!

 

[TallTroll]

Trading like that requires transparent markets, which Elite explicitly does not have. GalNet has a total monopoly on trading data, and they are unlikely to let you have all of it . If you think you can build an app to do it, feel free to try, but look up "np-complete" and "travelling salesman problem" first. On the upside, if you succeed, you get a RL Nobel Prize, as well as the ingame benefits

 

[EpicHam]

Trading like that requires transparent markets, which Elite explicitly does not have. GalNet has a total monopoly on trading data, and they are unlikely to let you have all of it . If you think you can build an app to do it, feel free to try, but look up "np-complete" and "travelling salesman problem" first. On the upside, if you succeed, you get a RL Nobel Prize, as well as the ingame benefits

Which is reminiscent of the travelling salesman hawking his wares across the expense of the American continent back in the 1800s ....

Nostalgic... yes.
Efficient?
Not really.

 

[MrBungle]

Sorry, disagree completely. The whole 'Currently the earning method in ED is akin to starting a 1-man trucking company or being a lone merc .
Scrapping chicken poo just to get by' is part of the game & frankly an attraction for a lot of people. You should not be able to get rich instantly or even quickly.

There are plenty of financial markets around the world that can provide the buzz you're looking for.

I appreciate the thought you've put into this, but like a lot of stuff that's been suggested of late, it's a bad idea that thankfully won't go anywhere beyond this thread.

But then how will we get RICH?

We have a form of market manipulation via trade routes denial and market oversaturation.
Why not go even further to give the more enterprising among us a chance to hit it BIG so they don't have to worry about the prospect of financial ruins at any moment?

Currently the earning method in ED is akin to starting a 1-man trucking company or being a lone merc .
Scrapping chicken poo just to get by.

its a Space Sim game , and as it is rotating around the theme of human civilization in space , it should also have a crucial element of human civilization which is the financial market... agree?

 

[Roepie]

No I do not agree.
Making money and get rich is just one of the goals you could have in E: D
There are many, many more.

E: D is a universe with lots of independed traders, explorers, pirates, bounty hunters etc. etc.
E: D is not a financial market in space sim.

 

[Maxeren]

Which is reminiscent of the travelling salesman hawking his wares across the expense of the American continent back in the 1800s ....

Nostalgic... yes.
Efficient?
Not really.

It has nothing to do with efficiency.. its a damn game, not a financial market sim...

 

[VR jefranklin18]

I did , but I got bored . I spent all my time earning money but not "skilling" up in the combat tree.
So I'm a quadrillionaire with NOOOooo combat skills there... which kind of defeats the purpose of making money.

Haven't you just killed your own argument there? What you are proposing is that you can sit around and make money without ever having to fly a ship.

Anyway, I work in Investment Banking (worked technically, as I was made redundant a while ago) and have no desire to "bring work home with me". Elite has always been about the physical movement of goods between locations and making a profit that way - slow yes, but slightly more rewarding than market manipulation. If you don't like it that way, then it is not the game for you.

And strictly speaking, even in these days of electronic trading - the physical movement of the item being traded can still occur.

 

[TallTroll]

>> Nostalgic... yes.
>> Efficient?
>> Not really.

It's not meant to be efficient, it's supposed to make GalNet rich. They hold a monopoly position, and there is no legal entity capable of breaking their monopoly. There are plenty of ways to "make it big", including trading - but not as an interstellar commodoties broker.

The "US in the 1800's" comparison is quite apt. That is exactly the feel the galaxy should have, a fairly civilised core, with central authority getting weaker as you move away from it, all the way to outright anarchy systems out on the frontier.

The Elite galaxy is technologically more advanced, but socially, it's a throwback. Which is exactly right

 

[donavanbadboy]

OH my lord NO! This sort of speculative trading is exactly what is keeping the poor of the world poor. Wanting to be filthy rich is an illness, a failure, not something to be admired or aspired to, IMVHO.

 

[beelbeebub]

Sounds like you need a space sim that that plays alot like a spreadsheet.

I'm sure there's one out there for you.

 

[Kulin]

It's a space sim/game, not a financial markets sim/game

We indeed have a financial market sim. demand and supply already has an influence on the prices. But i agree that this suggestion goes a bit too far.

What i hope is that we get more ways to influence this demand and supply. For example: it would be nice if the there are real possibilities to cut supply lines.

There are 4 Systems needed to get something like an robot into production:
1. Mining System to gather ore.
2. Refining System to make alloys from the ore.
3. Industrial System to make basic parts from the alloys.
4. High Tech System to create the final product.

A mining system needs mining stations. Refining Systems needs something like a refinery complex. And so on. Not only a station floating in space but outposts you can visit. And it should be possible to influence this outposts. For example: attacking the transports to reduce supply of any kind. Damage the outpost itself to take it out for 24 hours. And so on. This should not be easy and need some serious manpower. But the result would be that this systems are going to need supply from independent traders.

There are also other ways. Lets say one system is the only mining colony in a region that has a specific ore. That means they are selling their ore for a high price. To reduce this price there needs to be competition. So send in a punch of explorers to search the region for dark systems, unknown ore deposits and such things. If you find one the government should send someone to build a base there. voila... ore price is dropping, and as a result all productions that are depending on this ore are getting cheaper, too.

A nice way to create more lucrative trade routes.

 

[Toramo]

Well... there is a simple answer to this. Whatever you think about the game...


Elite dangerous is a sandbox game ...
So, like any sandbox game with 'no goal' you should be able to make a lot of different activity to keep the pleasure to play.


Fight, Explore, Think, Trade, Assassinate etc ... Anything you would want to do...

Personnally, I agree, the trade functionnality is a little bit light for now
But I like it


And personnaly I spend a lot of time not to fight in this game...

 

[EpicHam]

Haven't you just killed your own argument there? What you are proposing is that you can sit around and make money without ever having to fly a ship.

Anyway, I work in Investment Banking (worked technically, as I was made redundant a while ago) and have no desire to "bring work home with me". Elite has always been about the physical movement of goods between locations and making a profit that way - slow yes, but slightly more rewarding than market manipulation. If you don't like it that way, then it is not the game for you.

And strictly speaking, even in these days of electronic trading - the physical movement of the item being traded can still occur.

Not exactly.
In EvE Online , you have to "skill up" an arbitrary skill tree that only grows with time. Since I used my time to skill up a skill tree with regards to trading and manufacturing, I didn't have any skill points pointed towards combat.

In ED however, there is no "skill tree" you can do whatever you want provided you have the purchasing power for the equipment needed.

Which makes MONEY and CONNECTION the only limiting factor to what you can do.

And you really can't do that when you almost never see anyone "out there" and you have no freedom of information across the galaxy.

You're kept in the dark until you're ACTUALLY there.
In the galactic scale communication, we aren't even in the telegraph age , or the pigeon mail .
We are like the Greeks relying on Messenger boy to spread news.

I wouldn't mind actually having to travel across the universe but I do mind the lack of information prior to embarking on a trade route.