Game Discussions Unreal 5 engine provides 4k at cost of 1080 px

jackoisinthehouse

jackoisinthehouse
I think the cobra engine needs a boost asap.

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Unreal Engine 5 Temporal Super Resolution promises "4K at the cost of 1080p"

Unreal Engine 5 is available as a demo starting today, and users are gravitating toward its Temporal Super Resolution feature. TSR is similar to Nvidia's DLSS in that, while advertised as an anti-aliasing technique, it vastly improves high-resolution frame rates by upscaling lower resolutions...
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JTFireblaze

J
Unfortunately Cobra isn't Unreal.

But some new Anti Aliasing in Elite would be much appreciated at the least.

Was definitely hoping for TAA to come in Odyssey. Jagged edges at x1.0 sampling and MSAA and I can't keep a solid 60fps at higher than x1.0 in it right now!
 

Christopher Roberto

C
If you look at the top edge of rocks as the camera pans in their demo, they're using some horrible thing like DLSS which causes artifacts all over the screen. Once you learn to see them you won't be able to unsee them and it will drive you crazy like TAA blur.
 

Amy Pendergast

Amy Pendergast
jojon said:
How well does it work? I have a distaste for the artefacting of regular old TAA, as it is. :p
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I had a run yesterday with the early access version of the Unreal Engine and played a bit with the deferred colab and VR and the new version is quite impressive I have to say.

But I think rewriting ED in the UEngine would be a bit too much :)
 

jojon

J
[VR] Amy Pendergast said:
But I think rewriting ED in the UEngine would be a bit too much :)
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Thankfully only an equivalent of the post-effect filter in question would be needed - not the entire engine. :7

While I have negative views on TAA, and suspect similar issues are more than likely with DLSS/UE5's TSR, I am curious about it in a foveated rendering context, for upscaling the peripheral part of the view from a low resolution frame, whilst fully rendering the central bit at high resolution - preferrably with the algorithm being able to buffer enough of the latter to augment the former. (The game engine would of course also need to be able to select appropriate LODs, mipmaps, and culling frustums, for multiple renders at different resolutions and FOVs, of the same frame.)
 

Amy Pendergast

Amy Pendergast
jojon said:
Thankfully only an equivalent of the post-effect filter in question would be needed - not the entire engine. :7

While I have negative views on TAA, and suspect similar issues are more than likely with DLSS/UE5's TSR, I am curious about it in a foveated rendering context, for upscaling the peripheral part of the view from a low resolution frame, whilst fully rendering the central bit at high resolution - preferrably with the algorithm being able to buffer enough of the latter to augment the former. (The game engine would of course also need to be able to select appropriate LODs, mipmaps, and culling frustums, for multiple renders at different resolutions and FOVs, of the same frame.)
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I would love to try this, this should make the view feel more "natural" and at the same time saves a lot of rendering power. Sadly I have no equipment that can make use of foveated rendering and I ran our test scenes at full res, no DLSS. I'm not really a fan of TAA and try to avoid such things in my tests.
 

Quantis Trap

Quantis Trap
Frontier is quite invested in their Cobra Engine and that sometimes good and sometimes bad.

On one hand, they have complete control of the engine and for instance that's probably one reason the flight model is quite good.
On the other hand, since the engine is theirs, they can't hire developers from outside who already know their engine, so they have to constantly train in house and they have to develop every aspect of their engine versus take advantage of already provided features written by others outside the company.

I believe that much of the development work which was put into Odyssey was building the new base FPS functionality into the Cobra engine. They would not have had near as much work to do in that area had they been developing on an engine with already existing, well tested FPS capabilities.

In other words Elite Dangerous Odyssey is a test bed for a completely new set of Cobra Engine FPS features right now.
 

Amy Pendergast

Amy Pendergast
Quantis Trap said:
Frontier is quite invested in their Cobra Engine and that sometimes good and sometimes bad.

On one hand, they have complete control of the engine and for instance that's probably one reason the flight model is quite good.
On the other hand, since the engine is theirs, they can't hire developers from outside who already know their engine, so they have to constantly train in house and they have to develop every aspect of their engine versus take advantage of already provided features written by others outside the company.

I believe that much of the development work which was put into Odyssey was building the new base FPS functionality into the Cobra engine. They would not have had near as much work to do in that area had they been developing on an engine with already existing, well tested FPS capabilities.

In other words Elite Dangerous Odyssey is a test bed for a completely new set of Cobra Engine FPS features right now.
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I'm not to sure about the FPS part being completely new, for instance Jurassic Park uses Cobra also and has these features active albeit used to a much lesser extent and with much less graphical fidelity.
 

jackoisinthehouse

jackoisinthehouse
Quantis Trap said:
Frontier is quite invested in their Cobra Engine and that sometimes good and sometimes bad.

On one hand, they have complete control of the engine and for instance that's probably one reason the flight model is quite good.
On the other hand, since the engine is theirs, they can't hire developers from outside who already know their engine, so they have to constantly train in house and they have to develop every aspect of their engine versus take advantage of already provided features written by others outside the company.

I believe that much of the development work which was put into Odyssey was building the new base FPS functionality into the Cobra engine. They would not have had near as much work to do in that area had they been developing on an engine with already existing, well tested FPS capabilities.

In other words Elite Dangerous Odyssey is a test bed for a completely new set of Cobra Engine FPS features right now.
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Probably they recycled some of the "Lemmings Gate" (Lemnis Gate) new fps shooter being developed so they could kill two birds with one shoot.
 

jojon

J
Well, there are certainly plenty of UE4 titles that exhibit the exact same aliasing due to deferred rendering making it difficult to use multisampling AA, that we are all too familiar with from Elite Dangerous - typically "hidden" by blurring the image in post, which is IMHO worse than the aliasing was in the first place. :p
 

Amy Pendergast

Amy Pendergast
jojon said:
Well, there are certainly plenty of UE4 titles that exhibit the exact same aliasing due to deferred rendering making it difficult to use multisampling AA, that we are all too familiar with from Elite Dangerous - typically "hidden" by blurring the image in post, which is IMHO worse than the aliasing was in the first place. :p
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One thing I live to use as VR test scenes: Nvidia/Epics Hong Kong graphics demo. That's explicitly made to look as good as possible but is too ressource hungry to be used as a full game.
Just drop in a VR actor and you are good to go and they modeled far more of the city than the one house you see in the automated flyby in the demo.
 

jojon

J
[VR] Amy Pendergast said:
One thing I live to use as VR test scenes: Nvidia/Epics Hong Kong graphics demo. That's explicitly made to look as good as possible but is too ressource hungry to be used as a full game.
Just drop in a VR actor and you are good to go and they modeled far more of the city than the one house you see in the automated flyby in the demo.
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O-ho. I believe I actually downloaded the UE4 UDK sometime in the past... Maybe I should check my harddrives to see if it is still there, and see if I can learn enough of it to try that which you mention... :7

...I really, really want raytracing, though... Full raytracing - none of this hybrid stuff, and certainly not anybody's proprietary solutions. I would really like to see how Elite would look raytraced, and with light from multiple stars.

...Not that we'd get more than a frame each fortnight, even taken into account how with rasterisation abolished, sample density could potentially be varied arbitrarily across the view, for smoothly transitioning foveated rendering, and even rendered direcly to things like curved screens, . :9
 
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Amy Pendergast

Amy Pendergast
jojon said:
O-ho. I believe I actually downloaded the UE4 UDK sometime in the past... Maybe I should check my harddrives to see if it is still there, and see if I can learn enough of it to try that which you mention... :7

...I really, really want raytracing, though... Full raytracing - none of this hybrid stuff, and certainly not anybody's proprietary solutions. I would really like to see how Elite would look raytraced, and with light from multiple stars.

...Not that we'd get more than a frame each fortnight, even taken into account how with rasterisation abolished, sample density could potentially be varied arbitrarily across the view, for smoothly transitioning foveated rendering, and even rendered direcly to things like curved screens, . :9
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With the new segmentation for open world games, like seen in the demo video, that would be possible, but better start saving your money, for 4K I would suggest a 3090, perhaps a 3080Ti. The more VRAM for textures, the better :)

Edit: Modifying the scene is a 10 minute job, as there is a ready made free VR actor available.
 
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