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[DrBurrito]

I would like to comment on the polar bear enrichment discussion. I understand the frustration about their enrichment item selection not representing their diet and it not being consistent with the rest of the roster, since omnivorous/herbivorous foraging items were all polar bears had when they were released, which doesn't represent their primary diet - and all other animals in the game have enrichment items representative of their diets. Some of it is probably a result of oversight or due to technical limitations, but some of the enrichment items being discussed here are appropriate for polar bears and should not be removed:

• Frozen block of fruit and vegetables are a common form of enrichment for polar bears in captivity, so shouldn't be removed. There has been concerns about food enrichment showing food type when clicked, which is true for many of the empty shell type enrichment items, but food enrichment items that already have the type of food defined in their names do not mention food type when clicked, only grade. So this shouldn't cause any immersion problems.
• Large fixed roller feeder is big enough to make sense to fill up with a ton food and any species of bear is capable of rolling it. Doesn't need to be removed.
• Tree scatter feeder does indeed sound a bit weird to be used for a polar bear, but it technically doesn't even resemble a tree and the animations are acceptable - a polar bear can indeed shake such a structure to retrieve food, isn't that big an immersion breaker.
• Tree forager is probably the most unsuitable one out of the existing food enrichment items for two reasons. 1) It resembles an actual tree stump. 2) The polar bear is forced to use its tongue to retrieve food like a bear that commonly forages for food from small holes. I do agree this item is best removed.
• Bamboo feeder is too small to yield full carcasses. The largest carnivores in the game to use this item are canids and hyenas. Big cats for instance don't have them. Other bears do have the bamboo feeder as an enrichment item, but they are omnivorous bears that often forage for small scraps. I do agree that this item should be removed.

Instead of these two enrichment items that are best removed, I would recommend the following three:

• Restraint feeder: A lot of the large carnivores in the game have this enrichment item. It would require new animations, but would be amazing to watch polar bear use it.
• Pinata enrichment: Polar bears already have the paw swipe animation for the bamboo feeder, so wouldn't require new animations. The zebra texture on the pinata shouldn't really be a problem, as many animals from North America, Asia and Europe already have the zebra pinata. But a seal pinata would be amazing.
• Frozen blood pumpkin: All other large carnivores have this enrichment. Would be nice seeing it added to the list of enrichment items polar bears have. Wouldn't require new animations.

As for the herb scent marker, like @markun explained, it is commonplace to use spices and herbs to stimulate carnivores in captivity, therefore I do support this item to be added to all other carnivores in the game. Polar bears should also receive the blood scent marker. However, if by design, the game intends to reflect diets when it comes to scent stimulation and for that reason other carnivores aren't going to receive it, then it should also be removed from the polar bears.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the tree scatter feeder is displaying the wrong food texture for the polar bears.

 

[iloveyourzoos]

Personally I hope they don't remove any existing enrichment options from any animals. For those of us who play with welfare on, or who may have many zoos, it would be quite disconcerting to log in to an old zoo that had been left in great shape, only to find that suddenly there are lots of issues from animals not being able to use enrichments that have been intentionally discontinued. And even worse if you designed a habitat or viewing area based around some of these, in reliance upon the game's mechanics -- in a way that allows you and your guests to enjoy the animations.

I'm always cool with adding more enrichments, and increasing the number of animals that would be able to use an enrichment to match what they could do in real life. And I fully respect any animal experts or realism enthusiasts who don't want to use a particular enrichment that thy don't feel makes sense. But deleting enrichments for everyone, after the devs have worked hard to create the animations and players have built habitats with them in reliance on the game's explicit instructions, just seems like it would be going in the wrong direction to me.

Just a few posts up we have an example where the underwater feeders are unintentionlly causing troubles. Why would the devs want to go out of their way to potentially cause unforeseen problems or delete things that are working in-game?

 

[XT]

Thanks for the suggestion. However, I only get the submit issue window, then the game crashes. I can't get even get to the main screen. Any suggestions?

I don't, except for re-installing the game (if you haven't tried that already). I'd try and submit a ticket too.

 

[-LUCA-]

Personally I hope they don't remove any existing enrichment options from any animals.

Honestly that's like asking not to remove blood scent marker from an elephant if it was placed there as mistake. If the game needs corrections, it should be done. It's just a matter of deleting one or two objects from your save files. Balancing the game based on old save files wouldn't be fair to the game as a whole. Devs have made changes to biomes and other requirements in the past, which includes removal if necessary, and I think they should continue doing the same for the sake of the game.

 

[Cool Cats and Kittens]

For me any enrichment item that an animal could physically use is acceptable. The natural behavior those enrichments are trying to kindle is curiosity. That's why some zoos give otters access to instruments:

Source: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyb77SNs7fE

 

[Ursidae]

I would like to comment on the polar bear enrichment discussion. I understand the frustration about their enrichment item selection not representing their diet and it not being consistent with the rest of the roster, since omnivorous/herbivorous foraging items were all polar bears had when they were released, which doesn't represent their primary diet - and all other animals in the game have enrichment items representative of their diets. Some of it is probably a result of oversight or due to technical limitations, but some of the enrichment items being discussed here are appropriate for polar bears and should not be removed:

• Frozen block of fruit and vegetables are a common form of enrichment for polar bears in captivity, so shouldn't be removed. There has been concerns about food enrichment showing food type when clicked, which is true for many of the empty shell type enrichment items, but food enrichment items that already have the type of food defined in their names do not mention food type when clicked, only grade. So this shouldn't cause any immersion problems.
• Large fixed roller feeder is big enough to make sense to fill up with a ton food and any species of bear is capable of rolling it. Doesn't need to be removed.
• Tree scatter feeder does indeed sound a bit weird to be used for a polar bear, but it technically doesn't even resemble a tree and the animations are acceptable - a polar bear can indeed shake such a structure to retrieve food, isn't that big an immersion breaker.
• Tree forager is probably the most unsuitable one out of the existing food enrichment items for two reasons. 1) It resembles an actual tree stump. 2) The polar bear is forced to use its tongue to retrieve food like a bear that commonly forages for food from small holes. I do agree this item is best removed.
• Bamboo feeder is too small to yield full carcasses. The largest carnivores in the game to use this item are canids and hyenas. Big cats for instance don't have them. Other bears do have the bamboo feeder as an enrichment item, but they are omnivorous bears that often forage for small scraps. I do agree that this item should be removed.

Instead of these two enrichment items that are best removed, I would recommend the following three:

• Restraint feeder: A lot of the large carnivores in the game have this enrichment item. It would require new animations, but would be amazing to watch polar bear use it.
• Pinata enrichment: Polar bears already have the paw swipe animation for the bamboo feeder, so wouldn't require new animations. The zebra texture on the pinata shouldn't really be a problem, as many animals from North America, Asia and Europe already have the zebra pinata. But a seal pinata would be amazing.
• Frozen blood pumpkin: All other large carnivores have this enrichment. Would be nice seeing it added to the list of enrichment items polar bears have. Wouldn't require new animations.

As for the herb scent marker, like @markun explained, it is commonplace to use spices and herbs to stimulate carnivores in captivity, therefore I do support this item to be added to all other carnivores in the game. Polar bears should also receive the blood scent marker. However, if by design, the game intends to reflect diets when it comes to scent stimulation and for that reason other carnivores aren't going to receive it, then it should also be removed from the polar bears.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the tree scatter feeder is displaying the wrong food texture for the polar bears.

Agree that the frozen fruit block was a very conscious addition and should stay.

However, the rest I believe is a major oversight or an attempt to make use of the existing animations made for other bears. I can't think of any institution that uses tree stumps, roller or scatter feeders for polar bears. The fact that they are anatomically capable of retrieving food from these doesn't mean that they are most suitable for them. Although, I do appreciate your effort to make at least some of them viable even after a potential food enrichment item review for polar bears, but I'd rather not have them (scatter and roller feeder).

We are on the same page about the bamboo feeder and stump forager, those are definitely the most absurd ones. The animations on the tree stump forager alone is enough a reason for its removal, and the size of the bamboo feeder is unmatched in the game for animals near the size class of a polar bear that have the "whole carcass" as a food type. Other bears for instance are in the same size class but don't have the "whole carcass" as food. These two should definitely be removed from the polar bear.

Herb scent marker should only stay if all other carnivorans in the game also get it, otherwise it wouldn't be consistent.

I've always advocated for consistency in games and I think it should be a priority over convenience, so I can't agree with the comment asking for old requirements to stay even if they are acknowledged as wrong. The fact that it is the only carnivore in the game to have the herb scent marker and the wrong food texture displaying for the scatter feeder is enough to prove that the majority of enrichment item choices for polar bears were either an oversight or a result of animation limitations. No other animal in the game has "whole carcasses" dropping from tree scatter feeders.

I think any enrichment item that an animal could physically use is acceptable. The natural behavior those enrichments are trying to kindle is curiosity. That's why some zoos give otters access to instruments:

The reason why I can't agree with you and burrito for supporting this notion is it becomes a case of "where do we draw the line?" Then almost every animal can use any enrichment item. If you make polar bears an exception, then you lose consistency in game mechanics.

 

[iloveyourzoos]

Honestly that's like asking not to remove blood scent marker from an elephant if it was placed there as mistake

If the devs had created unique animations for elephants designed specifically around the blood scent markers, and players had been gaining enrichment needs from placing them, then I personally wouldn't' want those removed either. I've never known real life guests to complain that "tickets are underpriced" either, but the warning serves an in-game function, and I don't think in-game functionality should be removed.

I respect that others feel differently, and suspect that we'll never agree. I only wrote to make sure that other play styles got included/represented as the devs think about this and make their decision (whatever that ends up being). In a game with so many different and interrelated parts, there's always a risk that a dev might see a list of realism recommendations from people who might play in a certain way, and try to implement them all quickly and en masse, without carefully considering how each one might impact players who play in other ways.

Realism is one valid and valuable way to approach the game, and I want you folks to get as much of it as possible in all the places where it doesn't hurt everyone else. And in those places where there has to be a trade off, I just want the devs to consider that trade off from all sides before making a decision.

 

[DarthQuell]

I've never known real life guests to complain that "tickets are underpriced" either, but the warning serves an in-game function, and I

This actually reminds me of the 1999 Sim Theme Park game by Bullfrog (I believe a branch of Maxis). Anyways, sometimes the assistant would come and say: "Psst, visitors think your ticket price is a steal. Have you thought about raising them?". So, maybe a future update could change the text to something like that, to make it have the same function but be about something a guest would say (maybe there could be a price for a too expensive zoo, like less visitors? I'm not sure if guests numbers are affected with ticket prices)

 

[Firestar97]

This actually reminds me of the 1999 Sim Theme Park game by Bullfrog (I believe a branch of Maxis). Anyways, sometimes the assistant would come and say: "Psst, visitors think your ticket price is a steal. Have you thought about raising them?". So, maybe a future update could change the text to something like that, to make it have the same function but be about something a guest would say (maybe there could be a price for a too expensive zoo, like less visitors? I'm not sure if guests numbers are affected with ticket prices)

It already has the same Function. At least in the German Version it just tells you that many Guests think that the Price is very cheap. Don't understand how this could be interpreted as a Complaint

 

[-LUCA-]

No other animal in the game has "whole carcasses" dropping from tree scatter feeders.

Not only that, it is also the only animal with a carnivorous diet to have the tree scatter and forager. No other animal with carnivore-only food listed in their Zoopedia and food quality sections have these two enrichment items. So it is beyond full carcasses Basically no other animal with meat food texture use them, unless they have a mix of meat, plants and grains, which probably also explains the whole wrong food texture issue for some of the items for polar bears.

The animations on the tree stump forager alone is enough a reason for its removal,

I'm not even sure polar bears have a tongue long enough or the habit to extract food from deep tree holes like a sun bear for instance. So this item is perhaps even outside their physical capabilities. That alone could be enough a reason to exclude them.

If the devs had created unique animations for elephants designed specifically around the blood scent markers

The thing is, non of these animations are unique for the polar bears, they are taken from other bears. This is why many people feel like it was an oversight.

 

[iloveyourzoos]

The thing is, non of these animations are unique for the polar bears, they are taken from other bears. This is why many people feel like it was an oversight.

Fair enough. My knowledge of the animal rigging/painting/animation/etc. is quite limited. (Non-existent, if I'm being honest.). I was merely trying to make a distinction between a choice that they decided to enable in some way (that particular bear can now do something it couldn't otherwise), as opposed to something like the meerkat slow feeder example, which never functioned in-game in any way, which they were never able to interact with and never gave enrichment points, and which was listed as a known bug at the time of the meerkat's introduction. (and therefore that was okay to remove in my estimation).

 

[markun]

Polar bears in zoos - and for that matter occasionally in the wild - are not exclusively carnivorous.

“Giant 50-lb frozen treats consisting of fish, apples, and carrots were wheeled in every day. Different scents were introduced by bringing in toys that other zoo animals had used”

https://behaviorvetsnyc.com/healing-a-polar-bear-through-enrichment/

Fruit and vegetables in ice as polar bear enrichment

Source: https://youtu.be/n1m4Ybq1bhY



Polar bear enrichment with plant matter and an enrichment ball with food inside

Source: https://youtu.be/rlbU0bMK-lM


“Polar bears at the San Diego Zoo get a fortified meat-based commercial carnivore diet, dog kibble, trout and other fish, as well as root vegetables and lettuce as treats. Cow femur bones and thawed rabbits are added once or twice per week. Polar bears get very little nutrition or calories from vegetables, so these items are offered as treats, and the whole carrots keep their teeth clean”.

Polar Bear | San Diego Zoo Animals & Plants

“a balanced diet developed for polar bears in zoos and aquariums could include a combination of nutritionally complete items (dry, raw, and/or gel), saltwater fish, bones, whole prey, produce [fruit and vegetables] and food presented in enrichment devices.

https://nagonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Polar-Bear-Care-Manual-NAG-EDIT.pdf

 

[Ursidae]

Polar bears in zoos - and for that matter occasionally in the wild - are not exclusively carnivorous.

“Giant 50-lb frozen treats consisting of fish, apples, and carrots were wheeled in every day. Different scents were introduced by bringing in toys that other zoo animals had used”

https://behaviorvetsnyc.com/healing-a-polar-bear-through-enrichment/

Fruit and vegetables in ice as polar bear enrichment

Source: https://youtu.be/n1m4Ybq1bhY



Polar bear enrichment with plant matter and an enrichment ball with food inside

Source: https://youtu.be/rlbU0bMK-lM


“Polar bears at the San Diego Zoo get a fortified meat-based commercial carnivore diet, dog kibble, trout and other fish, as well as root vegetables and lettuce as treats. Cow femur bones and thawed rabbits are added once or twice per week. Polar bears get very little nutrition or calories from vegetables, so these items are offered as treats, and the whole carrots keep their teeth clean”.

Polar Bear | San Diego Zoo Animals & Plants

“a balanced diet developed for polar bears in zoos and aquariums could include a combination of nutritionally complete items (dry, raw, and/or gel), saltwater fish, bones, whole prey, produce [fruit and vegetables] and food presented in enrichment devices.

https://nagonline.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Polar-Bear-Care-Manual-NAG-EDIT.pdf

This discussion has turned into something it wasn't. I don't think anybody objects to the idea of supplementing polar bear diets with plant matter, at least I don't. The argument was, in Planet Zoo, "food enrichment items for every animal is designed after primary diets & feeding behavior" and not after supplements in their diets.

Here are some examples to a few of the grade 3 food items for several animals in the game, all of which are more omnivorous than polar bears, to underline the difference between designing enrichment items based on primary diets vs supplementary diets:

Bonobo: Small vertebrates
Japanese Macaque: Fish
Mandrill: Small vertebrates
Western Chimpanzee: Processed meat

Non of these animals have meat or fish based enrichment items despite having meat or fish based grade 3 foods. Polar bears don't even have a single plant based supplement listed in any of their food grades, yet have 90% of their enrichment items designed after a herbivorous/omnivorous diet. This stark difference is what people are objecting to, as far as I can tell.

Frozen block of fruit already accounts for the plant based dietary supplements they are supposed to have, the rest should represent their hypercarnivorous nature. I also support the idea of adding fruits and vegetables to their grade 3 food items.

 

[NZFanatic]

Polar bears in zoos - and for that matter occasionally in the wild - are not exclusively carnivorous.

I don't think that's the point - it's pretty obvious that Frontier didn't do it on purpose in this case, because they used existing in-game bears as a base for the polar bear. Its enrichment needs aren't some nuanced observation about real-world polar bear diets in captivity, they're just an unchanged hangover from when the polar bear was a grizzly bear.

 

[markun]

I don't think that's the point - it's pretty obvious that Frontier didn't do it on purpose in this case, because they used existing in-game bears as a base for the polar bear. Its enrichment needs aren't some nuanced observation about real-world polar bear diets in captivity, they're just an unchanged hangover from when the polar bear was a grizzly bear.

I can see that but I disagree with people saying they are all wrong because of that.

 

[macronecu]

I can see that but I disagree with people saying they are all wrong because of that.

It's not a matter of right or wrong, we are commenting on the level of consistency in game mechanics. As ursidae pointed out, chimps have the most basic food item all carnivores in the game have: processed meat, but even they don't have meat enrichment.

 

[giu94]

I love this new pack, as a "builder" I love especially the new grass, it was really needed I just hoped it didn't have any hit boxes

 

[Firestar97]

I love this new pack, as a "builder" I love especially the new grass, it was really needed I just hoped it didn't have any hit boxes

Wait. That Grass has a Hitbox? Didn't notice it for some Reason. How does this make Sense? The Reeds don't have a Hitbox and they are way bigger. I think they should remove the Hitbox from it to make it more realistic

 

[MissySanchez]

• Added new deep water requirement for diving, 180m² base and 25m² for additional animals

I would like to ask if the team is aware of this issue that is being talked about elsewhere on the forum. Apparently this particular new requirement for polar bears mentioned in the changelog is missing from the game.

 

[SirTophamHatt]

On sale again, £6.39.