Update 2.2: So much light, but also some shadow!

[Arubeto]

Update 2.2: Even more light, and nearly no shadow at all!

If I'd go just by the list of already announced features for 2.2 (and FDs presentations at GamesCom aren't even finished, yet!), the upcoming release of the "Guardians" update would easily win the Gold medal for most promising update in the two year history of ED for me:

• Ship launched fighters (including an awesome looking start sequence from the fighters bay)
• NPC crew!!!
• additional geologic features on planet surfaces
• overhauled looks for neutron stars including awesome sounding new high jump mechanics (risk vs reward!) for explorers
• Passenger (bulk and VIP) missions!
• The beautiful Beluga Liner
• Tourism spots around the galaxy!
• CQC environments in the main game
• Capital ship yards
• Module storage
• Ship transfer
• New paintjobs for fighers, ships and SRVs
• New customization kits for additional ships
• Security state of the targeted system being visible on the HUD (congratulations to Captain Kremmen! Your two year long fight has finally been successful )
• Route filters for all kinds of system properties (security level, star class, economy type etc.)
• Planet models being visible in the system view!
• "Shady" contacts offering to clear your fines or buy your bounty vouchers - for a price!
• Beautiful, additional station interiors (tourist, refinery, high-tech and agriculture all look awesome!)
• The new independent "Taipan" fighter (very cool design, IMHO)
• Overhauled port services UI

This is a massive list, not just of extremely often requested features (More risk vs reward for explorers in form of updated neutron stars!! CQC environments in the main game!!! Shipyards!!!! Security Level "front and center" ) and great QoL improvements (Module storage! Selling your remaining vouchers anywhere for a fee!!) but also the the stuff I have been looking forward to the most: NPC crews (still can't believe they budged and we don't just get multiplayer crews! Anyone remember our fights here at the forum, telling FD that NPCs are at least as important as multiplayer crews for the community? Well, they listened! ), Passenger missions and Ship transfer!

And with the recent events, the one point that really irked me a lot - instant ship transfer - has been resolved as well!

So the only, very minor complaints - really just nitpicking - that remain are:

• Ship transfer will be instant. This is the one big design mistake they shouldn't do with ship transfer, IMO. Screwing up the price for transfers wouldn't have such a big impact on the gameplay, neither the presence or absence of large carriers actually transporting our ships. But making transports instantaneous bereaves the game of one of its greatest assets: the feeling of the scale of the huge galaxy! Just in the name of "gameplay reasons trump everything else". But I think this decision actually isn't a gameplay improvement, but much rather a gameplay degradation. It will hinder FD to implement something like leaving cargo in docked ships in the future, for example, because otherwise players could just magically beam those docked goods around the galaxy along with their ships.
• Printing your own fighters in your fighter bay: while the actual fighter gameplay looks awesome, IMO, the decision to let the player re-print lost fighters doesn't sit well with me. I understand that the devs want to reduce the barrier of actually using the fighters if they are to precious, but replacing them this easily diminishes their value too much, I think. While on the Distant Worlds expedition, knowing I had only two SRVs in my hangar made me value and care for them much more, it created a much larger attachment towards them than if I'd have had an unlimited amount of SRVs.
• The CQC environments and the new capital shipyards look absolutely stunning, but reducing them - functionality wise - to just some glorified nav beacons with tunnels is wasting a great opportunity, IMHO. I think these should have at least some basic station facilities, like a commodities market or the option to refuel and repair your ship. I would so much love to dock at these new locations! The way it is now, they are little more than painted asteroids, which is a shame! Even the much smaller outposts offer some real space port functions, so preventing players from docking at CQC stations or shipyards is a missed opportunity!

So, all in all, I am very much looking forward to 2.2 without worrying, thanks to FD overthinking its initial decision about ship transfers being instant!

The feature list of 2.2 shows how much FD is listening to the demands of fans: nearly all of the stuff announced has been requested in the forums numerous times! So, kudos to FD for listening to their fans! [up]
Lets be cautiously optimistic about "The Guardians"!

 

[milligna]

Yes, being able to dock at some of the CQC assets would be interesting but that would also detract from one of their main uses: to have a few more fun environments to dogfight around!

Looking forward to seeing where they bring things with 2.3 and multicrew, because surely a lot of the players will want the NPC crews expanded for that too. We'll need the help when there's thargoids about!

 

[Cynaqq]

Ditto!

With some little modifications (I'm always an optimist, sorry )

Instant ship transfer makes SO MUCH SENSE compromise wise, for accessible gameplay, I think we'll just have to wait and see how it turns out. FD is obviously willing to go the extra mile to show they are listening to the concerns of those finding the game based on too much wasted time and tedium. I don't personally agree with that. I think the time balance of the game is perfect but it does raise the bar of accessibility by quite a bit. I just don't care if people can't get into it since I can. Seriously, screw them. But, sadly but understandably, Sandy and the team can't say that. They have the play data from everyone. They know what activities people are participating in and how frequently. They have the exact statistics to base their decision upon so if they are going to implement these drastic measures, well, there apparently is a reason they see in those numbers.

Printing, I have to admit, is an unfortunate way of putting it. I agree with the mechanic since they obviously are going to balance the fighters as pure glass cannons which will die A LOT in combat so having the option to fire a few before returning to restock will be a godsend for gameplay without interruption. However, I believe if they said 'auto-assembled from a compact storage' instead of straight up 3D printed (I believe Adam just blurted that out thinking it would sound cool to teens), we would be having a different conversation, possibly praising the decision up and down. Words are powerful and developers ought to choose them wisely.

Totally agree with the re-introduced environments from the CQC and the new shipyards. They should have a purpose, at least in the future. I don't see any excuses other than 'we didn't have time to implement any use for them yet'. They should have said 'they'll do somethings in the future, just not now' but didn't so I'm angry about that.

Kudos to the team anyway. This is a pretty big one despite the weird (at least until we experience them in person) mechanic decisions.

 

[X-Terminator]

You get upto 2 fighters but only 1 at any time plus upto 8 rebuilds for onboard resources as they are easily destroyed.
Would like to have a Refinery that works as a hub for Miners and is more efficient at turning materials in too and in a secure area.

 

[Weps]

So, everything could be perfect, if - sadly - some of these much anticipated features wouldn't look like they are going to be implemented in a somewhat lacklustre way:

Don't get your hopes up. I remember an exact thread with pros and cons right before Engineers. I remember lots of complaints about certain features with Engineers, which FDEV later also considered that needed changing.

Despite all that, the update launched exactly as it had been advertised, variable balancing excluded of course. The most that will probably happen is get some promise that things will be revised during Beta, which will never happen. That's just the FDEV way, they stick to their guns, bring forth their content, and then later adjusted depending on the level of backlash from the community.

 

[dannysquid]

The CQC environments and the new capital shipyards look absolutely stunning, but reducing them - functionality wise - to just some glorified nav beacons with tunnels is wasting a great opportunity, IMHO. I think these should have at least some basic station facilities, like a commodities market or the option to refuel and repair your ship. I would so much love to dock at these new locations! The way it is now, they are little more than painted asteroids, which is a shame! Even the much smaller outposts offer some real space port functions, so preventing players from docking at CQC stations or shipyards is a missed opportunity!

Do we actually know this or is it just speculation? I would have thought they'd be at least tied into missions or something.

 

[Luniticisi]

Do we actually know this or is it just speculation? I would have thought they'd be at least tied into missions or something.

They said they work essentially like Nav Beacons (not the new ones where you can get system info - the old ones that did diddily squat) - a place to visit, bounty hunt that sort of thing.

 

[dannysquid]

They said they work essentially like Nav Beacons (not the new ones where you can get system info - the old ones that did diddily squat) - a place to visit, bounty hunt that sort of thing.

I suppose they're ideal for combat scenarios, but I hope they expand their purpose a bit with time. Perhaps if there's some sort of alien invasion they can have more strategic importance.

 

[Luniticisi]

I suppose they're ideal for combat scenarios, but I hope they expand their purpose a bit with time. Perhaps if there's some sort of alien invasion they can have more strategic importance.

i'm sure they will ..

 

[CMDR-AD]

The CQC assets and the Capital Ship yard would be interesting elements for a proper military naval career someday.

But yes, a massive and overall excellent looking 2.2 release. And still there are some hints at more that may be revealed.

 

[VR jefranklin18]

Instant ship transfer makes SO MUCH SENSE compromise wise, for accessible gameplay, I think we'll just have to wait and see how it turns out. FD is obviously willing to go the extra mile to show they are listening to the concerns of those finding the game based on too much wasted time and tedium. I don't personally agree with that. I think the time balance of the game is perfect but it does raise the bar of accessibility by quite a bit. I just don't care if people can't get into it since I can. Seriously, screw them. But, sadly but understandably, Sandy and the team can't say that. They have the play data from everyone. They know what activities people are participating in and how frequently. They have the exact statistics to base their decision upon so if they are going to implement these drastic measures, well, there apparently is a reason they see in those numbers.

I was thinking about it, and a reasonable compromise would be to limit the range that the transfer can occur. For example, some plank may take a trip to Jacques in a jump-range maxed out ship, but then bring in their Fer De Lance to cause problems for those newly arriving. However, if there is a (for example) 3000 ly range limit for transferring, then it would limit the chances of the exploit.

I understand everyone saying that there should be a delay to transfer your ship, but I can understand Frontier's point of view and there will be people who moan that just want to get to their ship.

 

[Arubeto]

Don't get your hopes up. I remember an exact thread with pros and cons right before Engineers. I remember lots of complaints about certain features with Engineers, which FDEV later also considered that needed changing.

Despite all that, the update launched exactly as it had been advertised, variable balancing excluded of course. The most that will probably happen is get some promise that things will be revised during Beta, which will never happen. That's just the FDEV way, they stick to their guns, bring forth their content, and then later adjusted depending on the level of backlash from the community.

Tbh., "The Engineers" turned out pretty nice, IMHO. I didn't care about the ship modifications to much to begin with, so any balancing problem didn't (and still don't) concern me a lot. For me, the highlights of that update lay somewhere else, specifically in the introduction of persistent NPCs (the mission givers and engineers themselves) and NPC faces! In addition to that, 2.1 also contained lots of great Quality of Life improvements that I appreciate a lot: the great surfaces bases of engineers, tyre tracks on planet surfaces, bookmarks, real imperial seats in imperial ships, the cockpit clock etc.

So all in all Engineers wasn't a disappointment for me, not by long stretch. And 2.2 seems to continue this great new strategy of giving players lots of stuff they have been asking for from the beginning (again, specifically module storage, NPC crews, and places where you can sell your bounty vouchers from other systems come to mind, to just name a few examples), its just that I care so much about some of those very essential features that are coming up - passenger missions, NPC crews and ship transfers - that the compromises that FD seems to make to do them more accessible may negatively affect those features, I fear.

And I still don't think instant ship transfer has anything to do with avoiding "wasting time" - since you can do whatever you want while waiting for your ship being delivered, its just wasted if you don't use that time!

 

[Thetele]

I was thinking about it, and a reasonable compromise would be to limit the range that the transfer can occur. For example, some plank may take a trip to Jacques in a jump-range maxed out ship, but then bring in their Fer De Lance to cause problems for those newly arriving. However, if there is a (for example) 3000 ly range limit for transferring, then it would limit the chances of the exploit.

I understand everyone saying that there should be a delay to transfer your ship, but I can understand Frontier's point of view and there will be people who moan that just want to get to their ship.

I also support range limit that allow you to instant transfer ships anywhere in the bubble, but wouldn't allow players to move ships to Jacques. I see no benefit for player to have any kind of delay. I want to go do some fighting? i don't need to travel 300 ly to get my combat ship then travel 300 ly again to where i want fight in ship that have low jump range. So to have hour of combat easily mean a lot more than hour spend to travel. And players already hate to wait for powerplay commodities and then players ask to have delay on ship delivery?

 

[Cynaqq]

I was thinking about it, and a reasonable compromise would be to limit the range that the transfer can occur. For example, some plank may take a trip to Jacques in a jump-range maxed out ship, but then bring in their Fer De Lance to cause problems for those newly arriving. However, if there is a (for example) 3000 ly range limit for transferring, then it would limit the chances of the exploit.

I understand everyone saying that there should be a delay to transfer your ship, but I can understand Frontier's point of view and there will be people who moan that just want to get to their ship.

3000 ly is overkill.

The reason this is logical is only because the whole bubble is about 400ly wide. That's it.

The only places outside of this is the Pleiades (obsidian orbital, only 300ly away from the bubble) and Jacque's.

The transfer cost will be based on the ship value and the distance of transfer so they could set it so that it is feasible only within the bubble and outside that it's prohibitively expensive.

Even with that, the bubble is so so small, instant ship transfer's only downside will be breaking immersion. All it does otherwise is give people time to play the game when they want it instead of planning and traveling, sometimes outfitting multiple times for up to an hour just to participate in an activity (CGs mostly).

Yes, the habitated bubble is really that small.

 

[Zieman]

And I still don't think instant ship transfer has anything to do with avoiding "wasting time" - since you can do whatever you want while waiting for your ship being delivered, its just wasted if you don't use that time!

Well said! [up]

 

[askavir]

The OP pretty much summarizes my opinion too.

A lot of very good stuff coming in, a few taints too, but taints I can (still) live with.

And the best is probably still to come, tomorrow in the final day.

This is shaping up to be a great update.

 

[Arubeto]

Even with that, the bubble is so so small, instant ship transfer's only downside will be breaking immersion. All it does otherwise is give people time to play the game when they want it instead of planning and traveling, sometimes outfitting multiple times for up to an hour just to participate in an activity (CGs mostly).

I think that's a misconception. People don't lose any time when ship delivery takes time, they are free to do anything else until their ship arrives. Compared to the current situation, where they have to fly back themselves, pick up the required ship, and then fly back to their original location, they actually win quite a lot of time (at least half the journey - the trip to their other ship, specifically) and don't need to bother with flying their ship themselves, they can continue using their current ship until the transport with their ship arrives.

 

[Weps]

Tbh., "The Engineers" turned out pretty nice, IMHO.

Oh, I wasn't saying that the entire Engineers update was bad - some great stuff there to be had too. I just felt a little hint of hope in your OP, towards them fixing the issues you raised before 2.2 hits, and my personal opinion is that, unfortunately, it will not happen, not with the way FDEV have handled patches so far.

One other aspect is that while the most vocal complaints about 2.1, which FDEV have fixed or are about to (IMHO special effect chance, material grind, module storage), directly impact gameplay and balance, the current complaints about 2.2 are related more to gameworld building, lore, immersion etc. This usually receives less attention from developers. We'll see if the majority of the community is indeed concerned about these aspects, if it will raise any kind of ruckus, and if FDEV will consider any changes.

For example, I personally understand the issue of "printed" SLFs, but I don't care that much about it, not as much as I care about instant ship transfer or the current lack of module storage.

 

[Cynaqq]

I think that's a misconception. People don't lose any time when ship delivery takes time, they are free to do anything else until their ship arrives. Compared to the current situation, where they have to fly back themselves, pick up the required ship, and then fly back to their original location, they actually win quite a lot of time (at least half the journey - the trip to their other ship, specifically) and don't need to bother with flying their ship themselves, they can continue using their current ship until the transport with their ship arrives.

I'm not saying instant transfer is the only possible way.

What I'm saying is, its only downside is breaking immersion. Other than that, all the reasons against it are misconceptions too. No one will be negatively affected by instant ship transfers for a fee. Other than obsess about it in terms of immersion.

You can say it renders some options obsolete but the opposite is also true, that it creates options too.

Let me give you an example:

There was a war CG before 2.1 and I wanted to participate in it. I wanted to use my conda however the CG was signing participants on an outpost so I had to park the conda nearby, buy an eagle (could have gone for a sidey too), sign up, go back to switch ships before I started fighting in the CZs. However, before any of this, I had to fit the conda for travelling since I was on the other side of the bubble, travel through it and then look for all the modules I needed to combat fit my ship again. I went around many times between several systems and stations. When the CG was over, I jumped back in my eagle, claimed my reward, got the conda back, travel fit again and went back to my home system, to again combat fit the ship once more.

2.1 made CGs open to sign up from everywhere so it would have saved me at least some time. If the global CG sign ups and the 2.2 features were in place, I would have much easier time at the start and the end. I would even be able to leave the CG for a bit, go around doing other stuff and go back to fight again some more. Instead, I had to hang around the CG system for 5 days until the CG ended because I didn't want to go through the hassle of going back to claim rewards, while I was already at the highest tier I wanted to get in that CG.

This is a regular thing for me BTW. I do all of trading, exploration, bounty hunting and mining. I like to switch often if I'm not on a far out exploration trip, and I like participating in CGs. I've had to refit, buy and switch ships many times just to work around that limitation.

Now, a part of me is        because of the illusion of realism breaking but deep down inside I know it is a necessary evil.

 

[orfeboy]

I'm not saying instant transfer is the only possible way.

What I'm saying is, its only downside is breaking immersion. Other than that, all the reasons against it are misconceptions too. No one will be negatively affected by instant ship transfers for a fee. Other than obsess about it in terms of immersion.

You can say it renders some options obsolete but the opposite is also true, that it creates options too.

Let me give you an example:

There was a war CG before 2.1 and I wanted to participate in it. I wanted to use my conda however the CG was signing participants on an outpost so I had to park the conda nearby, buy an eagle (could have gone for a sidey too), sign up, go back to switch ships before I started fighting in the CZs. However, before any of this, I had to fit the conda for travelling since I was on the other side of the bubble, travel through it and then look for all the modules I needed to combat fit my ship again. I went around many times between several systems and stations. When the CG was over, I jumped back in my eagle, claimed my reward, got the conda back, travel fit again and went back to my home system, to again combat fit the ship once more.

2.1 made CGs open to sign up from everywhere so it would have saved me at least some time. If the global CG sign ups and the 2.2 features were in place, I would have much easier time at the start and the end. I would even be able to leave the CG for a bit, go around doing other stuff and go back to fight again some more. Instead, I had to hang around the CG system for 5 days until the CG ended because I didn't want to go through the hassle of going back to claim rewards, while I was already at the highest tier I wanted to get in that CG.

This is a regular thing for me BTW. I do all of trading, exploration, bounty hunting and mining. I like to switch often if I'm not on a far out exploration trip, and I like participating in CGs. I've had to refit, buy and switch ships many times just to work around that limitation.

Now, a part of me is        because of the illusion of realism breaking but deep down inside I know it is a necessary evil.

That is fine until you see how when everyone else using it just how it effects the galaxy.

The galaxy becomes a place where everyone just flies an asp and docks to instantly use their magical ship summon spell.
Combat zones always filled with just top ended combat ships
Local traffic reads listing almost exclusively asps.
Pirates being restricted to flying asps since they cannot keep up with the majority of players jumping to safety
The galaxy being shrunk as players simply asp their way around, pluck up each ship they need instantly and do each mission as they go.

This is just the things people have thought of off the top of their head.

I don't think FD have really thought this through. They have given differnt ships jump ranges in order to balance the game. Who cares if an FDl has a rubbish jump range if the player can just asp themselves around and call their ship instantly?

It throws all that balance out the window.