Update on the Peace Movement of Elite Dangerous (those of working to de-escalate without an extinction event)

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

The Allied Order of Exemplars and YKE Technologies will be breaking ties with McCoy Spaceways and McCoy Spaceways Auxiliary effective immediately. It has come to our attention that McCoy Spaceways organization is not nearly as committed to de-escalation with the Thargoids as we had hoped. The plan is going to be setup a working group to coordinate squadrons and independent CMDRs that believe humanity must find a path forward that results in at a very minimum a begrudging coexistence. Humans are sentient as are the Thargoids. As such, the ultimate goal needs to be de-escalation and prevention of a permanent war and/or extinction of one or both species. The Peace Movement deserves a future. The only way we can assure that is cutting ties.

Full statement is attached.

 

[Dylan D]

EDIT: This is an IN-CHARACTER POST. We urge all Commanders to NOT use this statement as a pretext for harassment against McCoy Spaceways or any associated entities. Such behavior goes against our principles and is counterproductive to our goals. This declaration is simply a reaffirmation of our commitment to our core values and the peaceful coexistence of all beings.

YKE Technologies was founded upon three core principles: Decentralisation, Integrity, and Peace. Recent events have deeply contradicted these values. McCoy Spaceway's actions not only undermine our squadron's objectives but also threaten the very essence of the Xeno Peace movement. CMDR Corr Felian of the Allied Order of Exemplars outlined our shared concerns in an adjacent post above which we highly encourage you to read for the full context, but to outline in summary:

• McCoy Spaceways has become covertly involved with Anti-Xeno affairs; contradicting the founding principle of our coalition
• McCoy Spaceways has engaged in behaviour with other CMDRs that only serves to drive tensions between CMDRs.
• McCoy Spaceways has repeatedly made attempts to poach CMDRs from allied squadrons.
• McCoy Spaceways has asserted to CMDRs in private that YTEC, AOE, and other pacifist / Pro-xeno movements are subsidiaries of McCoy Spaceways, when this claim is false.

It is imperative to clarify that we are not a subsidiary of McCoy Spaceways, as Julian has incorrectly suggested in private. Therefore, we are formally terminating any association with McCoy Spaceways and its auxiliary branches, effective immediately. Our temporary hiatus as a squadron should not be misconstrued as surrender, nor does it indicate any transfer of ownership to McCoy Spaceways.

The Kingfisher was exploited by Congressman Dalton Chase in a pursuit of political power, seeking to ascend from Governor to Federal Congressman. Julian appears to be following a similar path, albeit through the pursuit of Powerplay status.

Our primary focus as a squadron is the rescue of captives aboard the Titans. We are coordinating these efforts with AEGIS Reforged, a squadron which aligns itself with the in-game AEGIS group. While we understand that our alignment as 'Pro-xeno' may raise concerns, we stress that our efforts are centered around humanitarian aid and the prevention of further conflict escalation. We firmly believe that acknowledging Non-human intentions is crucial to achieving lasting peace for future generations, a belief that McCoy Spaceways' recent actions directly contradict.

Full Statement: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WNahafcIJtrUxzjQyHgwUhomkZ7Ryrw_ZZSgFKz1WAQ/edit?usp=sharing

 

[amigacooke]

But how can you, they’re the real McCoy!

 

[Dragsham]

Find the goids homeworld. And eradicate them forever. As they would've exterminated humanity had it not been but for a few ax cmdrs who took the fight to them. Now let's hunt them out, root n stem.
They've made no effort for peace. So why should humanity.
Have em on the run. Let's capitalise on that.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Find the goids homeworld. And eradicate them forever. As they would've exterminated humanity had it not been but for a few ax cmdrs who took the fight to them. Now let's hunt them out, root n stem.
They've made no effort for peace. So why should humanity.
Have em on the run. Let's capitalise on that.

We got the Scythes because we started killing defenseless Orthus. We had the option to steal or destroy the probes. We escalated this to where it is now because we choose cruelty against defenseless sentient lifeforms. Yes, the Titans forced the issue. We could have gone for stopping expansion and focus on humanity. We choose the worse of two routes. The current situation is on humans not the Thargoids. They are primarily defensive. I can say that with certainty as we live amongst them in the California Nebula. We have never been attacked.

 

[Dylan D]

Find the goids homeworld. And eradicate them forever. As they would've exterminated humanity had it not been but for a few ax cmdrs who took the fight to them. Now let's hunt them out, root n stem.
They've made no effort for peace. So why should humanity.
Have em on the run. Let's capitalise on that.

I am starting to realize that Interspecies Co-existence may be idealistic. Simply leaving each other alone might be our best option for peace. They have their spot of the Galaxy, we have our own. Plenty of room to do so. Pillaging their resources for our own benefit is highly selfish and a recipe for perpetual conflict. Do we even know how long it takes for a Thargoid to be born? They could potentially rebuild their entire army in a matter of months, we have no idea as it stands right now as Commanders.

Humanity fired the first shot in both Thargoid wars.
Our Frameshift Drives are built from stolen Thargoid technology.
Salvation attempting genocide on the Thargoids... TWICE. Once with Mycoid, then with the Proteus Wave.
De-escalation genuinely is our only route out of this perpetually revolving Dark Wheel.

Hell.... Humanity would control four or more Colonias by now if we didn't instigate new conflicts all the time.

 

[Dragsham]

That's because they need a mouthpiece to spread disunity. You betray your own kind sir

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

That's because they need a mouthpiece to spread disunity. You betray your own kind sir

I am on the Alioth Council and ReForge AEGIS Coalition. We have been instrumental in developing means to ensure human survival whilst avoiding further escalation in the nebulas. I'd also like you to consider that the Lavian government left a secret message that was decoded with the key "THARG".

Lavian Phoenix Greeting Protocol

The old mercenaries preferred a silent hail when meeting in deep space . Approach dead ahead with gun ports open at ninety degrees to target. Stop at five hundred metres , rotate ninety to the left and wait for same response.

Once established, custom is Phoenix members help each other. Your new friend might fly your wing for a while, but they’ll be gone if something comes up.

No pilot violates the greeting. If they does, let it be know. The Lady of Fate don’t smile on traitors.

The Old Worlds Region/GalCOp still exists because humanity didn't keep escalating. In fact, we may have delivered the antidote for Mycoid to Polaris. Also, you need to understand that Mycoid was weaponized against humans, too. There is no getting out of this without coming to terms with the past and our actions which kept escalating matters.

Lave was a dictatorship in the first game but technically that would imply that First Thargoid War had already ended.

First Thargoid War ended in 3151.

 

[Julian McCoy]

Oh, well that's unexpected...
So, I'll briefly address the concerns presented, and from then on any further comments will come from my organisation's spokespeople.

• I will admit it openly. Yes, I have taken part in Anti-Thargoid activities on an extremely limited scale. A lapse in judgement, training in case peace fails, who is to say? For the record, it only confirmed to me that I will never partake in such activities again. I won't in future cave to the so-called 'AX' agenda's actions in the vain hope it may bring some form of understanding between our widely differing viewpoints. Regarding the latter, our anti-Scythe operations have not yet been publicly announced - so much for that - but I stand by the comments I made concerning them.

"Si vis pacem, para bellum." - Vegetius.

• Our recruitment strategy has always prioritised offering employment to those within our spheres of influence, as anybody within that sphere has proven themselves to be trustworthy and capable of upholding our standards and values. If said - generous - employment package has tempted those from other powers to join us, then it's clearly working as intended. We've also provided significant numbers of carriers to non-members and allied factions as part of our various partnership deals, but that's a different story.

"Bet on people, not on strategies." - Lawrence Bossidy.

• Any squadron under the Auxiliary umbrella is part of the McCoy Spaceways family. I don't claim to control or lead them in any way, shape or form. They have just become part of something greater - part of a dream for a benevolent and uplifted humanity that can put conquest and domination behind it in favour of social discourse and peaceful coexistence.

"Believe that there are no limitations, no barriers to your success – you will be empowered and you will achieve." - Ursula Burns.

• The so-called 'AX' and human-supremacist agendas can only serve to benefit from this very public infighting, and downright split in half, of the pro-Thargoid, Thargoid peace and Thargoid advocacy movements. People have always asked me why I, and my organisation under me, pushes the cause of peace with such - almost religious - zeal. Now you are all aware of why; repentance and atonement. I don't mean that in the Far God sense, just in the sense of wanting a clear and balanced conscience.

"Be courageous. Challenge orthodoxy. Stand up for what you believe in. When you are in your rocking chair talking to your grandchildren many years from now, be sure you have a good story to tell." - Amal Clooney.

If you got this far, thank you all for reading!
Right on, Commanders.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Oh, well that's unexpected...
So, I'll briefly address the concerns presented, and from then on any further comments will come from my organisation's spokespeople.

• I will admit it openly. Yes, I have taken part in Anti-Thargoid activities on an extremely limited scale. A lapse in judgement, training in case peace fails, who is to say? For the record, it only confirmed to me that I will never partake in such activities again. I won't in future cave to the so-called 'AX' agenda's actions in the vain hope it may bring some form of understanding between our widely differing viewpoints. Regarding the latter, our anti-Scythe operations have not yet been publicly announced - so much for that - but I stand by the comments I made concerning them.

• Our recruitment strategy has always prioritised offering employment to those within our spheres of influence, as anybody within that sphere has proven themselves to be trustworthy and capable of upholding our standards and values. If said - generous - employment package has tempted those from other powers to join us, then it's clearly working as intended. We've also provided significant numbers of carriers to non-members and allied factions as part of our various partnership deals, but that's a different story.

• Any squadron under the Auxiliary umbrella is part of the McCoy Spaceways family. I don't claim to control or lead them in any way, shape or form. They have just become part of something greater - part of a dream for a benevolent and uplifted humanity that can put conquest and domination behind it in favour of social discourse and peaceful coexistence.

• The so-called 'AX' and human-supremacist agendas can only serve to benefit from this very public infighting, and downright split in half, of the pro-Thargoid, Thargoid peace and Thargoid advocacy movements. People have always asked me why I, and my organisation under me, pushes the cause of peace with such - almost religious - zeal. Now you are all aware of why; repentance and atonement. I don't mean that in the Far God sense, just in the sense of wanting a clear and balanced conscience.

If you got this far, thank you all for reading!
Right on, Commanders.

You are here because of your own actions. I strongly suggest owning that fact. Only from coming to terms with that is there a path forward. I am still not sure I see a way that happens. Perhaps after you have some time for introspection it will be considered.

 

[Kira Goto]

We got the Scythes because we started killing defenseless Orthus. We had the option to steal or destroy the probes. We escalated this to where it is now because we choose cruelty against defenseless sentient lifeforms. Yes, the Titans forced the issue. We could have gone for stopping expansion and focus on humanity. We choose the worse of two routes. The current situation is on humans not the Thargoids. They are primarily defensive. I can say that with certainty as we live amongst them in the California Nebula. We have never been attacked.

Now, I'm not sure what to think of this situation, but are you sure the Scythe is a direct result of the attacks on the Orthrus (which has been claimed to be used to scout out a system for invasion - though purpose as a transport vessel also seems likely, given their large presence at spire sites)?

Not that I condone any attack on an Orthrus, partly because they are slow and effectively unarmed, short of a Guardian-neutralizing shutdown pulse and a specifically modified rear/thruster section of the ship leaving behind a corrosive trail. Which I would rather qualify as self-defense mechanisms than outright weapons. I'm just not sure there's a link between it and the appearance of the Scythes*.

*On that note, while possibly not entirely related to the subject, Scythes are among the ships to leave a Titan in large numbers when it is in the last moments of its existence. Almost more than any other, possibly, even(I've seen many more of them abandon Leigong than Glaives, certainly). A highly purpose-built ship that has no offensive or reconnaissance qualities would seem like an odd choice to prioritize in the evacuation of a ship that was supposedly placed in/near human space purely for the purposes of an invasion, which almost everyone seems convinced is just there as a retaliation for the Proteus Wave.

 

[CMDRCorrMorningstarFelian]

Now, I'm not sure what to think of this situation, but are you sure the Scythe is a direct result of the attacks on the Orthrus (which has been claimed to be used to scout out a system for invasion - though purpose as a transport vessel also seems likely, given their large presence at spire sites)?

Not that I condone any attack on an Orthrus, partly because they are slow and effectively unarmed, short of a Guardian-neutralizing shutdown pulse and a specifically modified rear/thruster section of the ship leaving behind a corrosive trail. Which I would rather qualify as self-defense mechanisms than outright weapons. I'm just not sure there's a link between it and the appearance of the Scythes*.

*On that note, while possibly not entirely related to the subject, Scythes are among the ships to leave a Titan in large numbers when it is in the last moments of its existence. Almost more than any other, possibly, even(I've seen many more of them abandon Leigong than Glaives, certainly). A highly purpose-built ship that has no offensive or reconnaissance qualities would seem like an odd choice to prioritize in the evacuation of a ship that was supposedly placed in/near human space purely for the purposes of an invasion, which almost everyone seems convinced is just there as a retaliation for the Proteus Wave.

I appreciate the thoughts here. I still maintain we could have very efficiently reached a point of zero Thargoid advancement merely by either stealing or destroying the probes. That action by itself seems capable of stopping expansion. At that point, you effectively get a situation where the species either must open contact or acknowledge they will let each other exist without further retaliation. Co-existing doesn't have to be a perfect peace. We just need to understand what each other is after. This doesn't have the appearance of a standard invasion where goal is annihilation of whatever is living there. The Titans didn't act in unison in order to burn the Bubble to ground. I have a feeling I know why. The Guardian Codex speaks of shielded cities capable of withstanding orbital bombardment. There's a number of these scattered throughout the Bubble. There are three systems I would point at for their extreme importantance (Sol, Etain, and Van Maanan's Star). Humanity calls them surface ports and they appear like giant stadiums. The surface ports in question are: Ehlich City in Sol (Mercury), Vian Landing in Etain, and Jeury Terminal in Van Maanan's Star. They are protecting their home just like we are. Perhaps it is time to accept that fact.

 

[Rainbro]

Find the goids homeworld. And eradicate them forever. As they would've exterminated humanity had it not been but for a few ax cmdrs who took the fight to them.

They've known about us for hundreds of years and could have easily wiped us out centuries ago, long before we had modern FSDs and weaponry. But they didn't. Took until the Proteus Wave for them to finally stop holding back (assuming eight titans is all they have, anyway). Why do you think they didn't just drop a Titan on Sol from day one?

 

[Kira Goto]

I appreciate the thoughts here. I still maintain we could have very efficiently reached a point of zero Thargoid advancement merely by either stealing or destroying the probes. That action by itself seems capable of stopping expansion. At that point, you effectively get a situation where the species either must open contact or acknowledge they will let each other exist without further retaliation. Co-existing doesn't have to be a perfect peace. We just need to understand what each other is after. This doesn't have the appearance of a standard invasion where goal is annihilation of whatever is living there. The Titans didn't act in unison in order to burn the Bubble to ground. I have a feeling I know why. The Guardian Codex speaks of shielded cities capable of withstanding orbital bombardment. There's a number of these scattered throughout the Bubble. There are three systems I would point at for their extreme importantance (Sol, Etain, and Van Maanan's Star). Humanity calls them surface ports and they appear like giant stadiums. The surface ports in question are: Ehlich City in Sol (Mercury), Vian Landing in Etain, and Jeury Terminal in Van Maanan's Star. They are protecting their home just like we are. Perhaps it is time to accept that fact.

View attachment 387092

These ports exist in several places throughout the Bubble*. One is located near the front of Titan Oya, and was attacked not too long ago(in the Nawad system). Didn’t seem to be particularly well-shielded from attack, however. Or at least not enough to prevent Thargoid attacks from directly impacting.

And allow me to be doubt that we have yet gotten to anywhere near the level of shield technology which Guardians have/had achieved, at least at a default/base level(their shields were said to be resistant to kinetic and thermal damage by default - which ours aren’t as an off-the-shelf module). This conflict might look very differently if we did.

No disagreement that the conflict didn’t have to go as far as this. Or that this is very far from any attempt at extermination, but it is easy to be presented as an existential threat. Especially when you don’t know the motives of the attacker… and I believe the Thargoids hold some responsibility in letting us know, but it’s still mostly on humans for instigating the invasion anyway.

*Palin’s laboratory in Arque is a similar station, too.

 

[Rainbro]

Oh yeah, anyway, my views on the thread itself: I don't think there needs to be a strict ban on AX content for those who believe in peace.
Firstly because this is a game, yknow, if people find that content enjoyable then I figure banning it from your group is only going to negatively impact people's experiences for no real upside. A group can just not openly support an activity, that's fine.

Secondly because I think there is more nuance than all or nothing here. Like, I fully believe the war was deliberately engineered by those in power for profit and that the Thargoids have been extremely restrained in comparison, while still defending themselves. I will continue to try and increase awareness of that in the hopes of impending further efforts by the powers to screw us over.
But can I really tell people not to defend their homes, now that things have reached this point? Just as the Thargoids have the right to defend their territory, we have the right to defend ours. It won't help to not do that. It's the difference between that and hunting Thargoids that are just chillin' in their own territory, or supporting efforts to invade more Thargoid territory. Assuming we ever get more narrative choices anyway.

As for the rest of the post, that seems more like player group politics and I don't know details on that. But as an outsider to these events, I will say that McCoy's response looks like it may be missing the point about why these groups are concerned.

 

[Dylan D]

Oh yeah, anyway, my views on the thread itself: I don't think there needs to be a strict ban on AX content for those who believe in peace.
Firstly because this is a game, yknow, if people find that content enjoyable then I figure banning it from your group is only going to negatively impact people's experiences for no real upside. A group can just not openly support an activity, that's fine.

Secondly because I think there is more nuance than all or nothing here. Like, I fully believe the war was deliberately engineered by those in power for profit and that the Thargoids have been extremely restrained in comparison, while still defending themselves. I will continue to try and increase awareness of that in the hopes of impending further efforts by the powers to screw us over.
But can I really tell people not to defend their homes, now that things have reached this point? Just as the Thargoids have the right to defend their territory, we have the right to defend ours. It won't help to not do that. It's the difference between that and hunting Thargoids that are just chillin' in their own territory, or supporting efforts to invade more Thargoid territory. Assuming we ever get more narrative choices anyway.

As for the rest of the post, that seems more like player group politics and I don't know details on that. But as an outsider to these events, I will say that McCoy's response looks like it may be missing the point about why these groups are concerned.

We aren't looking to completely cut ties with anyone involved in AX content, but in this case, there were undisclosed elements that significantly damaged trust. I'd rather not delve too deeply into specifics here, as minor diplomatic channels have reopened since this post, and the nuanced aspects mostly concern private matters. However, concerning the document's highlights, the decision was necessary in our view.

Since the Proteus Wave event, our squadron has been self-labeled as a Pro-xeno group, providing a space for disgruntled PX pilots to organize player events and fly together under the banner of interspecies peace. It would be challenging for us to argue for de-escalation while participating in events that escalate tensions. However, you are correct; At the end of the day this is a game. We have had members who requested involvement and others who left the squadron outright due to our policy restrictions. I wish there were a gameplay loop that could address this imbalance, but I digress.

We are concerned that a counter-attack may occur in the Pleiades after the destruction of the eight Titans, assuming they are all successfully destroyed. With no more Titans to target, AX forces might remain trigger-happy, potentially leading to a second invasion wave. This counter-attack would directly oppose our policies and could escalate the conflict. We also recognize the right to self-defense in core territories; people shouldn't simply lay down their arms and perish. However, we must avoid glorifying violence against Thargoids. Striking a balance is crucial for de-escalation.

 

[Siveen]

I'm glad to see people are coming to see Julian for the garbage individual he is. While I am not a fan of the Pro-Xeno movement, I wish both AoE and YKE the best of luck moving forward.

 

[treemanboy1]

Oh, well that's unexpected...
So, I'll briefly address the concerns presented, and from then on any further comments will come from my organisation's spokespeople.

• I will admit it openly. Yes, I have taken part in Anti-Thargoid activities on an extremely limited scale. A lapse in judgement, training in case peace fails, who is to say? For the record, it only confirmed to me that I will never partake in such activities again. I won't in future cave to the so-called 'AX' agenda's actions in the vain hope it may bring some form of understanding between our widely differing viewpoints. Regarding the latter, our anti-Scythe operations have not yet been publicly announced - so much for that - but I stand by the comments I made concerning them.

• Our recruitment strategy has always prioritised offering employment to those within our spheres of influence, as anybody within that sphere has proven themselves to be trustworthy and capable of upholding our standards and values. If said - generous - employment package has tempted those from other powers to join us, then it's clearly working as intended. We've also provided significant numbers of carriers to non-members and allied factions as part of our various partnership deals, but that's a different story.

• Any squadron under the Auxiliary umbrella is part of the McCoy Spaceways family. I don't claim to control or lead them in any way, shape or form. They have just become part of something greater - part of a dream for a benevolent and uplifted humanity that can put conquest and domination behind it in favour of social discourse and peaceful coexistence.

• The so-called 'AX' and human-supremacist agendas can only serve to benefit from this very public infighting, and downright split in half, of the pro-Thargoid, Thargoid peace and Thargoid advocacy movements. People have always asked me why I, and my organisation under me, pushes the cause of peace with such - almost religious - zeal. Now you are all aware of why; repentance and atonement. I don't mean that in the Far God sense, just in the sense of wanting a clear and balanced conscience.

If you got this far, thank you all for reading!
Right on, Commanders.

Chimera Logs

docs.google.com

I would like an explanation on why you want to become Salvation Lite. Keeping a live Thargoid in captivity and doing experimentation on the ships? For having a "limited scale" this seems very significant scale. My source said that he is very concerned about this recent development from you and wanted the public to know the behind the scenes.