Updated Symbols for Scanner/Radar

[Gimi]

Small thing that I have thought about for quite some time.

The symbols used on the scanner should provide information about the state and hostility of a contact with both shape and colour.

1. This would make it easier on people who are colour blind.
2. It also reduce the issues you get when you change the HUD colours
3. Would make it faster/easier to recognise friend or foe on the scanner
3. Dark scenes/low light reduces the eye's ability to distinguish colours. It would alleviate that somewhat.

I have made an example template to give an idea of how it could be done.
I appreciate that this is probably not a simple thing to do, and that it's a rather big change that might be hard to get used to. But I think it's worth considering.

Spoiler

 

[CrimsonPlane]

Small thing that I have thought about for quite some time.

The symbols used on the scanner should provide information about the state and hostility of a contact with both shape and colour.

1. This would make it easier on people who are colour blind.
2. It also reduce the issues you get when you change the HUD colours
3. Would make it faster/easier to recognise friend or foe on the scanner
3. Dark scenes/low light reduces the eye's ability to distinguish colours. It would alleviate that somewhat.

I have made an example template to give an idea of how it could be done.
I appreciate that this is probably not a simple thing to do, and that it's a rather big change that might be hard to get used to. But I think it's worth considering.

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/OYjICu3.png

Oooh. I like this idea. This would help greatly with the new guys. But maybe you could not have it so complex.

 

[Gimi]

Oooh. I like this idea. This would help greatly with the new guys. But maybe you could not have it so complex.

You do have a point, but I belive that it will be less complicated than it looks when in use.
Also, it's just an example. If something like this was to be implemented, I'm sure FDEV will come up with their own solution.

The main simplification would be to remove the "target/ship scanned" indicator. This is not something I am very interested in, but I added it just now after having read a request about this on the forum.
You could also remove the separate symbol for POI/USS/etc, but that is something I really want.
Removing anything else will quickly break the principle of identifying friend or foe by colour and shape, while retaining the colours that are currently in use in game..

 

[Prorokpl]

Too many of them, but I'd like to see new colours for friends, if not in wing.

 

[Gimi]

Too many of them, but I'd like to see new colours for friends, if not in wing.

Simpler version.
Retains ability to identify friend or foe by both colour and shape (which is my main point).
Essentially, one symbol is added (diamond) for hostile and one for POI/USS/etc (cross)
Modification of symbol when weapons deployed.

Spoiler

 

[CrimsonPlane]

This is much better. Thank you.

 

[LillyThorne]

I like the hostile symbology. Sharp edges like a knife. I would recommend rounded edges for friendly symbology. Try an internet search for MIL-STD 2525B, I see you looked at NTDS. There's plenty of research and work into these interfaces with some comparison between the various standards. Good work on the graphics.

 

[Gimi]

I like the hostile symbology. Sharp edges like a knife. I would recommend rounded edges for friendly symbology. Try an internet search for MIL-STD 2525B, I see you looked at NTDS. There's plenty of research and work into these interfaces with some comparison between the various standards. Good work on the graphics.

I'm very familiar with military symbology. I manage Military C2 Systems development in my day job.
For both NTDS, APP-6 (essentially 2525 with a NATO twist) and 2525 , friendly is circular. I had that initially until Frontier used circle for Thargoid.
If I had my way, FDEV would just use a subset of NTDS or possibly 2525(D) (Delta is the latest version) for scanner symbols and colours, but I fear it would be hard for a lot of people to adjust if it's changed too much.
The issue with 2525(D) is that it's very complex, and it's really designed for Joint (air/sea/land) operations, with the Delta version adding a lot of civil and COIN symbols. This makes it unnecessarily complex if you only need air symbols like in ED. A better alternative for a game is probably NTDS (Naval Tactical Display System) symbology. Much simpler and very recognisable. Still used for real time systems where you need to absorb situational awareness at a glance.

But as I said earlier, if this was to be implemented, I expect FDEV to find their own take on it. I just hope they look at what the military has spent millions to develop.

 

[Lestat]

There a reason why I would not want this feature. It would act like other flight sim games. I think Elite has a history with the current display. I think it would cause the issue with players that don't use Large Monitors and use smaller laptops. 13 to 15-inch laptop.

Now if it would help colourblind or not. There already colour blind glasses. I have seen people lives change after using them. That improve that person gameplay and their daily life.

 

[Gimi]

There a reason why I would not want this feature. It would act like other flight sim games. I think Elite has a history with the current display. I think it would cause the issue with players that don't use Large Monitors and use smaller laptops. 13 to 15-inch laptop.

Now if it would help colourblind or not. There already colour blind glasses. I have seen people lives change after using them. That improve that person gameplay and their daily life.

Fair enough. I can respect the reference to Elite History. Personally I think my suggestion is a good compromise between functionality and respecting the simplicity of the Elite scanner. And this is not really about helping those that are colour blind (I'm not), that is just a bonus. I think that this provides good QoL features beyond that, so I respectfully disagree.

Thanks for the comment

 

[LillyThorne]

Well, if we're going simple, I'd take the Link 11 symbology set. I would agree that the newer standards are complex.

 

[dunno]

I like the first iteration and I don't think its overly complex.
My changes would be;
1). I would reverse the dot for scanned and unscanned targets, Hollow for unscanned and Solid for Scanned.
2). Remove the KWS symbology. (Nice to have but not life threatening and to similar to scanned/unscanned).

In my experience what makes Elite's current HUD symbology complex is the lack of published information, I had to use google extensively to acquire "opinions" on HUD symbology. I still haven't received a official reply to the exact meaning of the thin vertical lines in the HUD.