Utility Cargo

[Teh Smoo]

Ammo Supplies:
Cargo items that can be consumed for a number of reloads of weaponry, standard quality, like a low-tier synthesis. A few reloads per cargo unit, differing by ammo type. (Lots of MC/PD ammo, some rail ammo, a reload or two of plasma, a few rocket reloads, a couple missile reloads, a couple mine reloads, etc.)

Utility Supplies:
Cargo items that can be consumed for a number of reloads of utility stuff, standard quality as well. Heat sinks, chaff, SCB charges, AFMU, etc. Same deal, the more expensive, the fewer reloads. Plenty of heat sinks created from a crate, but only one full AFMU restock, that kind of thing.

Autonomous Ship Supplies:
Cargo item, again, consumed for limpets, SRVs, fighters. Something like 10 limpets, or a single fighter or SRV per crate. Probably a significant assembly time for fighters and SRVs.

Auxiliary Fuel Canister:
One ton of fuel in a cargo can. Can be consumed to put a ton of fuel into tank(s).

Expandable Fuel Canister (empty):
Eight of the fuel cans, but empty and packed into a single cargo container. To create them remotely. Together, these would allow ships to jettison cans of fuel, instead of mounting a fuel limpet controller, and still refuel someone. Especially if they have a collector limpet.

All of these would be sold in stations. This would allow remote reloading of things, trucking spares of stuff out into distant territory, etc.

 

[coca_fr]

Are you suggestion that we could equiped an Utility Cargo in Optional Internal in order to carry ammos with us, that we could then use to reload our weapons ?

I'm all for that !

+1

 

[Teh Smoo]

Are you suggestion that we could equiped an Utility Cargo in Optional Internal in order to carry ammos with us, that we could then use to reload our weapons ?

I'm all for that !

+1

No, CARGO units, carried in cargo rack modules.

That way, you can even drop them, and people can scoop them up. Basically, pre-packaged materials usable only for limited functions AND for non-special reloads, and sold in NPC stations for money. Potentially useful for exploration and restocking in remote areas, since a ship could carry a lot. Though it would be expensive.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Good suggestion.

It could be abused for huge amounts of high end ammunition, and SCB uses.

To balance it, I'd say you'd need to power off the weapon or module in order to load ammo from the cargo hold.
For SCB ammo, you'd actually need to drop your shields in order to recharge the SCB, or have the process disrupted (and reload wasted) by taking damage. Otherwise, we'd have never ending SCBs mid combat.

I would also suggest needing a powered optional internal module (Ammo Loader?) to perform these tasks, to use them on yourself.
Or an Ammo Loader Limpet Controller to perform this on others (limpet takes time to reload the weapons and taking damage will destroy the limpet, wasting the reload). Or something like that.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

 

[Teh Smoo]

Good suggestion.

It could be abused for huge amounts of high end ammunition, and SCB uses.

To balance it, I'd say you'd need to power off the weapon or module in order to load ammo from the cargo hold.
For SCB ammo, you'd actually need to drop your shields in order to recharge the SCB, or have the process disrupted (and reload wasted) by taking damage. Otherwise, we'd have never ending SCBs mid combat.

I would also suggest needing a powered optional internal module (Ammo Loader?) to perform these tasks, to use them on yourself.
Or an Ammo Loader Limpet Controller to perform this on others (limpet takes time to reload the weapons and taking damage will destroy the limpet, wasting the reload). Or something like that.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

If you fit cargo racks. How many hardcore PVP ships have much in the way of cargo?

I'm not saying it should be instant, or usable in combat, mind you. Have the 3d-printing process take MINUTES for all I care. Have even shield hits disrupt the process, as the printer is delicate and has to start over.

More limpets controllers is a SUPER BAD IDEA, though more limpets and generalized controllers is a great idea. More required modules for exploration restock is also not great. (IMO, ofc.) Just have it take the cargo containers and standardized stuff inside, and feed it into the system that you use to create guided missiles out of Iron, Nickel, Sulphur, and Carbon...

I mean really, NPCs should be more than capable of harvesting materials, we do it here on Earth all the time, and they have HOW MANY planets to exploit?

 

[zegram33]

I Like this plan but i'd second it coming under "utility" slots.
currently utility basically means "defensive"
id say need to power off the weapon, and takes time like afu
also...different ammos are in the game...so why not have ammo created by this be say -10% as damaging
so its not optima but it can help

 

[Teh Smoo]

I Like this plan but i'd second it coming under "utility" slots.
currently utility basically means "defensive"
id say need to power off the weapon, and takes time like afu
also...different ammos are in the game...so why not have ammo created by this be say -10% as damaging
so its not optima but it can help

Again, NO. This is simply cargo crates full of materials, as harvested by NPCs. Stuff that you can carry, in large quantity. Not the highest quality, yet probably priced at premium anyway.

This allows people to go exploring with large, transferrable amounts of expendable materials. Or fit cargo racks when they fight, and stop and process cargo into non-bonus ammo. But mostly, it allows resupply out at Beagle Point. Though it would still be cheaper to fly back to a nearby station and hit "rearm" instead of buying these.

Having the conversion process take large amounts of time and energy, though? Perfectly reasonable, and makes a lot of sense. And allowing rearm remotely, at a price premium, does not affect the balance meaningfully, as long as it's not usable in combat.

This is simply balanced by price and the requirement for cargo capacity. If these took utility slots, they would be COMPLETELY USELESS in most conceivable meta, especially since people just currently stack unrealistic amounts of reinforcements and shield boosters.

Besides, COMBAT should never have gotten into ridiculously long TTK, there are MANY other contributing factors to that, that FD has been unwilling to fix, and expecting everything else to fix combat balance is frankly stupid.

 

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

Honestly, more versatile methods of supply management would be useful in more than one way.

I spoken with a friend about the idea of things like using cargo space for additional ammo, or even, if only to control gameplay balance, having 'ammo magazine' modules that allow you to hold additional weapon ammunition.

Case example in point, using cargo space to turn fighters into viable torpedo bombers. Torpedoes are one of those consumable weapons that just... honestly, don't make sense for a player. Your ammo supply in the case of a torpedo gives you one or two shots, and then you're empty. Problem is, this doesn't work very well in the kind of extended combat situations players encounter when they build for combat, such as with conflict zones, res sites, etc. Might be good for packing a wallop in one-off encounters, but one screwup, and you're a sitting duck. Especially in a small ship class with limited weapon slots.

The ability to use the cargo space you would put racks in would greatly increase the usability of weapons like torpedoes, without causing too much of an upset in gameplay. You still have to sacrifice module slots for the cargo space, but now your fighter becomes a credible threat to something much larger than itself. It becomes a strike-fighter/bomber. And the ability to turn a fighter into a bomber also makes for more surprises when you have small ships vs large ones. After all, in combat, a bomber is life's answer to dealing with a large warship. Suddenly that wing of DiEagles that you can melt in a split second aren't so harmless to your 'Conda.

Of course, this can work in the favor of larger ships as well. I can easily see an Anaconda hauling half a cargo bay full of missiles or torpedoes, packing firepower more like a frigate or small naval destroyer. Granted, filling a bay of any significant capacity full of ammo would be hideously expensive. Torpedoes already cost an arm and a leg to stock. A bay full of dozens of spares? Gameplay won't be critically broken by the creation of 'torpedo boats' simply because it's so expensive.

Maybe as a bonus, ammo magazines (when filled) would have the potential to cook off when taking damage. Perhaps even leading to the creation of regular magazines, which swap cargo space for ammo capacity, and armored magazines, which provide only half the space, but are significantly tougher and heavier.

If you combine the cost of filling the magazines with the potential for a magazine to cook off when damaged, you have a self-balancing mechanic in the form of being careful about how much spare ammo you pack. Pack too much and have a bad fight? Well, naval warfare history can tell you AAAAAALL about how bad magazine cook-offs are for naval assets.

 

[Teh Smoo]

Honestly, more versatile methods of supply management would be useful in more than one way.

I spoken with a friend about the idea of things like using cargo space for additional ammo, or even, if only to control gameplay balance, having 'ammo magazine' modules that allow you to hold additional weapon ammunition.

Case example in point, using cargo space to turn fighters into viable torpedo bombers. Torpedoes are one of those consumable weapons that just... honestly, don't make sense for a player. Your ammo supply in the case of a torpedo gives you one or two shots, and then you're empty. Problem is, this doesn't work very well in the kind of extended combat situations players encounter when they build for combat, such as with conflict zones, res sites, etc. Might be good for packing a wallop in one-off encounters, but one screwup, and you're a sitting duck. Especially in a small ship class with limited weapon slots.

The ability to use the cargo space you would put racks in would greatly increase the usability of weapons like torpedoes, without causing too much of an upset in gameplay. You still have to sacrifice module slots for the cargo space, but now your fighter becomes a credible threat to something much larger than itself. It becomes a strike-fighter/bomber. And the ability to turn a fighter into a bomber also makes for more surprises when you have small ships vs large ones. After all, in combat, a bomber is life's answer to dealing with a large warship. Suddenly that wing of DiEagles that you can melt in a split second aren't so harmless to your 'Conda.

Of course, this can work in the favor of larger ships as well. I can easily see an Anaconda hauling half a cargo bay full of missiles or torpedoes, packing firepower more like a frigate or small naval destroyer. Granted, filling a bay of any significant capacity full of ammo would be hideously expensive. Torpedoes already cost an arm and a leg to stock. A bay full of dozens of spares? Gameplay won't be critically broken by the creation of 'torpedo boats' simply because it's so expensive.

Maybe as a bonus, ammo magazines (when filled) would have the potential to cook off when taking damage. Perhaps even leading to the creation of regular magazines, which swap cargo space for ammo capacity, and armored magazines, which provide only half the space, but are significantly tougher and heavier.

If you combine the cost of filling the magazines with the potential for a magazine to cook off when damaged, you have a self-balancing mechanic in the form of being careful about how much spare ammo you pack. Pack too much and have a bad fight? Well, naval warfare history can tell you AAAAAALL about how bad magazine cook-offs are for naval assets.

Oh my yes. If you shot the cargo hatch out and the ship has too much ammo replacement cargo units to dump? BOOM.

Fuel is just fusion mass, and the rest are less explosive, so they don't need to explode. And gameplay-wise, they don't affect combat balance much, either. A new fighter that takes 10 minutes to assemble is hardly as nasty as a "bomber" that can run off and refill torpedo racks from cargo.

 

[zegram33]

If doing it that way (it can be jettisoned to be picked up by others) different cargos would kinda have to be ammo specific (ie: spare heat cells, spare MC ammo, etc etc)
it would be kinda weird to my mind that fuel requires limpets to be transferred but ammo can just be collected...but then id rather allow fuel to just be jettisoned in a canister for others to pick up anway

 

[Teh Smoo]

If doing it that way (it can be jettisoned to be picked up by others) different cargos would kinda have to be ammo specific (ie: spare heat cells, spare MC ammo, etc etc)
it would be kinda weird to my mind that fuel requires limpets to be transferred but ammo can just be collected...but then id rather allow fuel to just be jettisoned in a canister for others to pick up anway

Well, fuel limpets are currently a one-ton tank attached to an autonomous delivery system.

My point was, if a limpet can suck up a ton of fuel and fly it over, why can't a ship fill a few expanding canisters with fuel, and chuck them out the airlock? Or use the same mechanic to stockpile fuel.

That, and the remote logistics of the entire thing, in that there could be a POINT to flying an exploration-freighter around.