Versus Torpedoes

[Morbad]

Though it's been quite some time since torpedoes were last altered, I wanted to double check the effectiveness of various weapons against them.

Only two weapons that currently seem to be significantly useful are railguns and screening shell fragmentation cannon:
[video=youtube;LUHA3UaDI6I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUHA3UaDI6I[/video]

I'm using small LR feedback rails there, and when both shots land a torpedo is taken to ~7% integrity...a special that doesn't reduce damage would result in two hits from a small rail destroying a torpedo, and any two hits from a medium rail (inside fall off range), even with plasma slug or feedback, will also suffice. So, if you aren't hit right away and can open up a gap, use your rails to knock out a enough torpedoes to ensure your shield gen won't fail and you can concentrate on fighting rather than staying away from the remainder.

Screening shell frags work pretty well, but range is an issue. That's a large rapid fire turret (set to forward fire) in the video, and an OC gimbal or fixed frag will do correspondingly more damage per shot. Note that fire at will turrets will not target munitions, even with the screening shell mod, so if you have a frag turret for whatever reason, it will need to be set to "forward fire" or "target only".

Most other weapons either do nothing to torpedoes, or do such poor damage as to be useless in a pinch. I was able to down them with lasers, but it took a very long time, even with a huge beam.

Seekers in particular seem to do nothing at all (I tested both explosive and thermic damage seekers), which is a notable change from before they increased torpedo durability:
[video=youtube;N0f-pF9Xm3M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0f-pF9Xm3M[/video]

Prior to the change that made PDTs mostly useless, seekers were one of the best anti-torpedo defenses.

I haven't tested experimental weapons like flak or flechettes, yet.

 

[Tifu]

Though it's been quite some time since torpedoes were last altered, I wanted to double check the effectiveness of various weapons against them.

Only two weapons that currently seem to be significantly useful are railguns and screening shell fragmentation cannon:


I'm using small LR feedback rails there, and when both shots it a torpedo is taken to ~7% integrity...a special that doesn't reduce damage would result in two hits from a small rail destroying a torpedo, and any two hits from a medium rail (inside fall off range), even with plasma slug or feedback, will also suffice. So, if you aren't hit right away and can open up a gap, use your rails to knock out a enough torpedoes to ensure your shield gen won't fail and you can concentrate on fighting rather than staying away from the remainder.

Screening shell frags work pretty well, but range is an issue. That's a large rapid fire turret (set to forward fire) in the video, and an OC gimbal or fixed frag will do correspondingly more damage per shot. Note that fire at will turrets will not target munitions, even with the screening shell mod, so if you have a frag turret for whatever reason, it will need to be set to "forward fire" or "target only".

Most other weapons either do nothing to torpedoes, or do such poor damage as to be useless in a pinch. I was able to down them with lasers, but it took a very long time, even with a huge beam.

Seekers in particular seem to do nothing at all (I tested both explosive and thermic damage seekers), which is a notable change from before they increased torpedo durability:


Prior to the change that made PDTs mostly useless, seekers were one of the best anti-torpedo defenses.

I haven't tested experimental weapons like flak or flechettes, yet.

Urgghhh on the seeker's utter uselessness vs torpedoes. Do shock cannons push torpedoes off track at least? Are SLF's any use against them?

Great stuff posting the vids - first time I've seen anyone address anti-torpedo defense which doesn't involve running

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Great data, I am using 4 rails and an ECM on my Vette. Shooting them down was always a good strategy, especially since you oneshot with 4 rails, you can ignore further torps as they really don't kill my shield gen.

Having said that, it would be cool if we'd had torps with more ammo but serious loading times (30-60 seconds depending on torpedo class) and more speed or and most importantly more damage against hulls.

 

[Morbad]

Do shock cannons push torpedoes off track at least? Are SLF's any use against them?

I haven't tested the force shell cannon effect, or the shock cannon experimental weapon yet, but given that rails don't seem to shake them and torpedoes are guided, I wouldn't expect these weapons to prove useful.

SLFs can be ordered to engage torpedoes, but no standard SLF weapons are effective enough to down a torpedo in a reasonable period of time, and the only way I've seen SLFs counter a torpedo is to collide with it (accidentally or intentionally). The Lance might be effective, but I don't have it unlocked myself, and the only times I've been able to fly one was in multi-crew. So, more testing needed in that regard.

 

[pzykozomatik]

What about the Human Tech Broker weapons (Shock Cannon / Flechette Launcher / Enzyme Missile), has somebody tried those yet?

 

[Morbad]

Great data, I am using 4 rails and an ECM on my Vette. Shooting them down was always a good strategy, especially since you oneshot with 4 rails, you can ignore further torps as they really don't kill my shield gen.

Yeah, they do ~40 integrity damage each, which is just enough for four to knock out a reinforced A7 or prismatic gen, and six to knock out a thermal/kinetic resist generator (without double braced). Even knocking out one or two usually means one ship doesn't have enough torpedoes to finish off the shield gen.

What about the Human Tech Broker weapons (Shock Cannon / Flechette Launcher / Enzyme Missile), has somebody tried those yet?

I'm sure someone has, but I haven't.

It's on the list.

 

[777Driver]

Yeah, they do ~40 integrity damage each, which is just enough for four to knock out a reinforced A7 or prismatic gen, and six to knock out a thermal/kinetic resist generator (without double braced). Even knocking out one or two usually means one ship doesn't have enough torpedoes to finish off the shield gen.

I have a T-10 build with a compliment of 24 torpedoes (Mix Cascade/Deepcut) You can launch 9 at once.

Works great in a wing, all heatsinks in the utilities, temps never go above zero when engaging.

Regarding defense against torps, best thing is to make sure your attacker never gets a lock in the first place, it takes a while to acquire a lock, if they do get a lock, run.. Never come across anyone attempting to shoot them down, it just wouldn't work against a decent volley.

 

[Slange Lands]

I have a T-10 build with a compliment of 24 torpedoes (Mix Cascade/Deepcut) You can launch 9 at once.

Works great in a wing, all heatsinks in the utilities, temps never go above zero when engaging.

wow, that's just sick
I think 2020 will be my year of the torpedoes
and mines

do you fire all the heat sinks at once or just one at a time?
does it matter if you fire the heat sink before or after the torps launch?

Thank you.

btw, I very much appreciate your signature. Reminds me of a silly but very profound song, "Row, row......
Life is but a dream."

 

[777Driver]

wow, that's just sick
I think 2020 will be my year of the torpedoes
and mines

do you fire all the heat sinks at once or just one at a time?
does it matter if you fire the heat sink before or after the torps launch?

Thank you.

btw, I very much appreciate your signature. Reminds me of a silly but very profound song, "Row, row......
Life is but a dream."

The heatsinks are primarily used to remain out of target lock (combined with a voice attack command to cycle silent running on and off) However firing a volley of torps will cause the ship to cook itself, it is advisable to have a heatsink on the launch firegroup if more than 6 are being launched at once.

I set the cascades to primary fire, the deepcuts to secondary (these will fire a few seconds later and hit after the cascades have dropped shields)

Also keep in mind that torps are useless if you fire them without leaving enough time/distance for the warheads to arm before impact. Tricky to get right, but easy mode once you get used to it, a bit too easy in my opinion.

No point firing more than 1 heat sink at a time, as long as your heat is below 5% or silent running is engaged, nobody can lock you when you are at the minimum distance for the warheads to arm.

 

[Morbad]

Regarding defense against torps, best thing is to make sure your attacker never gets a lock in the first place, it takes a while to acquire a lock, if they do get a lock, run.. Never come across anyone attempting to shoot them down, it just wouldn't work against a decent volley.

I'd expect a wing, or even a single ship with that many torpedoes to have an emissive weapon that made getting a lock essentially inevitable against any ship that was large/slow enough to need to worry about torpedoes.

Frags would probably still be significantly useful against even massed torpedo volleys, on ships that were using them as primary damage dealers, which is the de facto use for screening shell, as it cutting reload time in half makes it far and away the best sustained DPS boosting special.

No point firing more than 1 heat sink at a time, as long as your heat is below 5% or silent running is engaged, nobody can lock you when you are at the minimum distance for the warheads to arm.

Just getting lock seems to result in becoming partially resolved:
[video=youtube;WiHk9hMpLIA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiHk9hMpLIA[/video]

At around the 3:05 mark the DBS targets me and the lock on sequence lets me select him as a target despite his silent running/heatsink use.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I have a T-10 build with a compliment of 24 torpedoes (Mix Cascade/Deepcut) You can launch 9 at once.

Works great in a wing, all heatsinks in the utilities, temps never go above zero when engaging.

Regarding defense against torps, best thing is to make sure your attacker never gets a lock in the first place, it takes a while to acquire a lock, if they do get a lock, run.. Never come across anyone attempting to shoot them down, it just wouldn't work against a decent volley.

Do that against my stealth DBE that can carry 8 torps and has silent running engaged. But granted, I wouldn't want to shoot down a volely of 24 torpedos. Tough I'd certainly to lead them into you using my ECM

 

[Morbad]

Tested against shock cannon, flechettes, and torpedoes themselves.

Shock cannon worked like most other kinetic projectiles; they will destroy torpedoes, if you can land the shots...which is easier said than done with how small the profile is and how they wobble. I had to be within 200-300m, flying alongside the torpedo, to be able to reliably land hits. Each fixed small shock cannon hit was doing 22% damage per shot and at the range I needed to be at, I was only able to land one fixed small at a time. Even a crack shot would probably find trying to take out torpedoes with shock cannon tedious, though the larger weapons might make it viable.

Flechettes and other torpedoes did nothing at all. Torpedoes seem to completely immune to all discrete munitions, or at least all splash damage, irrespective of damage type.

Verdict remains the same...screening shell frags if you've got them, or failing that, rails if you have time to line up a shot and only need to drop one or two.