Hi Frontier! Currently the bigger the park the less challenge there is. It should be the opposite. Could you make difficulty scale with park size (in say “very hard” mode option”)? My idea would be that after 200 points of park rating for every 30 point all costs (upkeeps, salaries etc) would increase by, say, 10 percent. Easy to implement, and would keep people who play games for challenge happy (or at least me). What you say? I like the management as is, just tweak some parameters to create real challenge please.
Very hard difficulty, please
- Thread starter Bitula
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Increasing "challenge" requires more then just a simple decrease in profits. The ride "aging" system is a way to make the game more challenging, but all it does it decrease income for a set amount of time. There are much better ways to improve the games level of challenge and/or fun besides decreasing profits. The current ride prestige system is not very well balanced with the games financial and research systems, so it would be a good idea to tweak the prestige ratings first, maybe modify financial and research systems, and then maybe we could find new and creative ways to add more depth to the game. Unfortunately, the career and challenge mode has not been a major focus of Frontiers as of yet.
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Appreciate your ideas !
Indeed, it seems like this. But there are so many more points that needs attention as well.
I really hope they come with a sort of 2.0 version of the game in November where all problem areas have been worked on.
“Aging” system, has nothing to do with difficulty, actually it makes the game even easier, because it is just a matter of time until all your rides/coasters become classic. My idea (it is just an example, you can suggest other simple solution, but it should be easy to implement) is to introduce a situation where one can screw up his park, so can actually lose the game. Currently this is possible only if you don’t build rides and coasters at all which basically invalidates the whole point of the game. Maybe I am in minority, but I think, at least some people would like this sort of challenge where you need to restart your park because of bad decisions. Since possibly this is a minority audience, something simple must be done, which can be delivered in a patch, similar to my suggestion and isolate it into a separate difficulty level “very hard”, so as not to ruin other’s experience, who enjoy winning easily. I’d like this to happen before “management 2.0 version” which may never happen. Not a big deal if it never happens from my side, since management is quite versatile at its current level, it’s just too easy.
Disagree actually. Aging system can co-operate with maintenance system. While rides always become classic, this shouldn´t be the end. I wouldn´t mind that in challenge model, rides would have possibility to reach a point where the ride is too rought to ride, dangerous or even become completely retired. Of course, that would also require some changes to how maintenace system works (and I imagine this would be kept away from sandbox). One of the things I would welcome is some more interaction with rides after you build them. Once you build them, you don´t have to care about it at all. Imo, similar mechanics is what the game needs.
We don’t know if complex management overhaul will ever happen, therefore I recommended just a simple solution to have a challenging difficulty with little effort from Frontier. It’s also possible to adjust the aging system to make it contribute to difficulty, yes, but then it would just need to end at “old” at some point, possibly removing the reviving and classical states, which I wouldn’t like, but still better than nothing.
Hi Frontier! Was looking for difficulty tuning options for planet coaster challenge mode and google directed to my own thread. So nothing changed? So we have a “harder” mode where it is sort of hard until you build your first three coasters, and then the challenge is over? Is there any plan to fix “harder” mode or ad a “real harder” mode? I’m really unmotivated now to buy the new expansions. Because for what reason? It only addresses sandbox/builder type players. And I am not talking about overhaul of management, Its ok for me as it is. Please just fix the challenge levels. Should be a simple tweak in parameter calculation.
Scenarios can be made quite challenging, if that is the scenario creator's intent. Scenario creators could fill the gap left by shortcomings in challenge mode if there was an audience for it. I'm not sure there is much of an audience for it. The game is literally a "walk in the park." That seems inconsistent with nail-biting tension.
Nevertheless, you can tweak scenario difficulty to match your tastes. This might be a good alternative for you.
Ramping up difficulty
Start with a lack of cash, a big loan, locked scenery, and few rides. That's the "old school" way to make a hard scenario. Given all the enhancements Frontier introduced to the game, that approach seems shallow now.
Scenario goals for hotels, staff, coaster characteristics, fireworks, guests, the park, and controlling crime can all increase difficulty while enriching game play.
In a big park...
* Security cameras become expensive to run.
* Shops, staff buildings and work rosters become more challenging.
* Getting a large number of guests to watch fireworks may mean having multiple fireworks locations.
* You won't get by with just one hotel if guests are spread out all over the place.
Guests can be configured in the scenario editor to make them difficult to deal with.
The number of guests can be limited. I lost one scenario and had to restart because of this. The scenario placed a hard limit of 600 guests and had an inefficient layout. The first time I played I went bankrupt.
The problem for me personally is that increasing difficulty too much means that micro management is needed to "win", and for me that becomes tedious and not at all fun. Seriously, is it fun to hire a mechanic the moment a ride breaks down and fire him as soon as it's fixed? Not for me. As someone who has created scenarios since RCT2, I've tried to avoid making scenario objectives a tedious grind, but still provide some challenge and entertainment. I also want to make sure the objectives can be completed before the game's frame rate goes to zero.
I've played all the scenarios that come with the game and quite a few made by players. There is a wide range in difficulty among them. There is also a wide range in game play experience. I found I did not play them all the same way. For me, this provided play value.
In my own play I've noticed that the harder the scenario, the uglier the park looks at the end. If I have to harvest the scenery, jam everything together, and use scenery solely for ride enhancement, the park takes on a certain unattractive look. By the end, I don't want to ever see that park again. While I want some challenge, I also want some aesthetics.
All that said, based on the activity in this forum, it appears that the vast majority of players have concluded that game play is so lacking that neither challenge mode nor scenarios are of interest. A number of the game's updates have offered enhancements to scenario objectives - staff features, crime, fireworks and hotels - but as far as I can tell, these features have done almost nothing to appease criticism. If I were Frontier, this would discourage me from further attempts to improve game play experience.
My solution, for what it's worth
What I've done is create scenarios for my own entertainment. I make them challenging enough to suit my tastes. If I don't enjoy them, it's my own fault and they will never be seen in my workshop. If I like my own scenario, I tweak it "as needed," provide a story to go with it, and upload it to my workshop - two so far. This approach may work for you. You may find other people with tastes similar to yours, and get to sample their work too, if you're lucky.
Who knows? You may even become known as THE player who makes really hard, but fair scenarios. More likely, though, your scenarios will be mostly ignored like all the others. But if you are doing it for your own entertainment, no worries.
Cheat sheet: A quick way to make a scenario is to take a park you like, delete and/or lock most of its improvements, then create a set of objectives, research tree, etc., in the scenario editor. You can quickly lock everything - select multiple items and click the "lock" icon in the scenario editor and the selected items are locked when the scenario is played!
If you use somebody else's park as a basis for your own scenario and put it in your workshop, be sure to credit the original park creator!
Nevertheless, you can tweak scenario difficulty to match your tastes. This might be a good alternative for you.
Ramping up difficulty
Start with a lack of cash, a big loan, locked scenery, and few rides. That's the "old school" way to make a hard scenario. Given all the enhancements Frontier introduced to the game, that approach seems shallow now.
Scenario goals for hotels, staff, coaster characteristics, fireworks, guests, the park, and controlling crime can all increase difficulty while enriching game play.
In a big park...
* Security cameras become expensive to run.
* Shops, staff buildings and work rosters become more challenging.
* Getting a large number of guests to watch fireworks may mean having multiple fireworks locations.
* You won't get by with just one hotel if guests are spread out all over the place.
Guests can be configured in the scenario editor to make them difficult to deal with.
The number of guests can be limited. I lost one scenario and had to restart because of this. The scenario placed a hard limit of 600 guests and had an inefficient layout. The first time I played I went bankrupt.
The problem for me personally is that increasing difficulty too much means that micro management is needed to "win", and for me that becomes tedious and not at all fun. Seriously, is it fun to hire a mechanic the moment a ride breaks down and fire him as soon as it's fixed? Not for me. As someone who has created scenarios since RCT2, I've tried to avoid making scenario objectives a tedious grind, but still provide some challenge and entertainment. I also want to make sure the objectives can be completed before the game's frame rate goes to zero.
I've played all the scenarios that come with the game and quite a few made by players. There is a wide range in difficulty among them. There is also a wide range in game play experience. I found I did not play them all the same way. For me, this provided play value.
In my own play I've noticed that the harder the scenario, the uglier the park looks at the end. If I have to harvest the scenery, jam everything together, and use scenery solely for ride enhancement, the park takes on a certain unattractive look. By the end, I don't want to ever see that park again. While I want some challenge, I also want some aesthetics.
All that said, based on the activity in this forum, it appears that the vast majority of players have concluded that game play is so lacking that neither challenge mode nor scenarios are of interest. A number of the game's updates have offered enhancements to scenario objectives - staff features, crime, fireworks and hotels - but as far as I can tell, these features have done almost nothing to appease criticism. If I were Frontier, this would discourage me from further attempts to improve game play experience.
My solution, for what it's worth
What I've done is create scenarios for my own entertainment. I make them challenging enough to suit my tastes. If I don't enjoy them, it's my own fault and they will never be seen in my workshop. If I like my own scenario, I tweak it "as needed," provide a story to go with it, and upload it to my workshop - two so far. This approach may work for you. You may find other people with tastes similar to yours, and get to sample their work too, if you're lucky.
Who knows? You may even become known as THE player who makes really hard, but fair scenarios. More likely, though, your scenarios will be mostly ignored like all the others. But if you are doing it for your own entertainment, no worries.
Cheat sheet: A quick way to make a scenario is to take a park you like, delete and/or lock most of its improvements, then create a set of objectives, research tree, etc., in the scenario editor. You can quickly lock everything - select multiple items and click the "lock" icon in the scenario editor and the selected items are locked when the scenario is played!
If you use somebody else's park as a basis for your own scenario and put it in your workshop, be sure to credit the original park creator!
I agree it makes it easier, but it´s not because of the system, but because of the balance. If it was done right, it would actually be very engaging and could make it all harder. The OP´s idea sounds good, but that´s what they did when they added difficulty levels and I think we can all agree it doesn´t work that well, because once you overcome the more challenging start, it goes very easy afterwards.
That´s because everything must be balanced and somehow influent each other. Namely, rides and their state/maintenance should affect the guest happines, which would ressult it higher/lower park rating and attendace would adjust accordingly. That would in the end affect the profits.
I was actually thinking, what could be also done to the "prestige system":
1) Not every ride should become classic. I think to become classic, more should be requested other than being old enough. For instance:
- Guest should rate the ride very good (lets say there would be 0-10 scale for rating and from 8-10, the ride could be approved to be considered classic)
- It should have high scenery rating
- Ride should have some awards (press awards or something ->new feature that could be implemented)
- and of course, ride should be old
If ride meets these conditions, it can become classic. Ofcourse, the list above is just a rough idea.
@Fossil: I am not into scenarios (in any game), I would like to have a challenging expereince while building up a park from scratch.
@sugar: I don’t think that that’s what they did as in my suggestion. The costs do not increase parallel to increase of park/ranking. So there is no such back-scaling. Which I think would be easy to implement.
Cities skylines had this issue for long as well, but now I found a difficulty tuning mod which seems to work well (Eg.: Impossible level), so I finally returned to playing it (and bought all missing expansions). This mod has like ten thousand downloads, so I wouldn’t say difficulty tuning is negligible for sandbox type games. Someone asked the creator to make one for Planet Coaster, but I guess it is not even possible since PC isn’t even mod-able.
@sugar: I don’t think that that’s what they did as in my suggestion. The costs do not increase parallel to increase of park/ranking. So there is no such back-scaling. Which I think would be easy to implement.
Cities skylines had this issue for long as well, but now I found a difficulty tuning mod which seems to work well (Eg.: Impossible level), so I finally returned to playing it (and bought all missing expansions). This mod has like ten thousand downloads, so I wouldn’t say difficulty tuning is negligible for sandbox type games. Someone asked the creator to make one for Planet Coaster, but I guess it is not even possible since PC isn’t even mod-able.
Hi All,
Yesterday, after getting bored with other games, I tried out scenario editor. I recognized that it can be "tricked into" being custom difficulty setting for from-scratch sandbox game. So as Fossil possibly implied it can be used as a sort of advanced difficulty setting for normal sandbox game instead of typical scenario. Particularly the point is that I reduced the park rating guest multiplier to 20% which means that 1/5 of guests are arriving for each rate point. It's quite fun so far (I even decided to continue buying dlc-s), you cant now build a coaster just because you can afford it because it's maintenance cost will be higher than the income from tickets, lol. I'm still experimenting and will report back on my experience on how the difficulty changes as the park grows. I found no parameter which scales with time or park size in the editor unfortunately, but maybe the reduction of this value is of similar effect given that the bigger the ride the more difficult it's upkeep and so the park should reach a certain size before it becomes viable. It's also possible to increase guest happiness declination rate to above 100% - so far I didn't try this, but seems interesting. Anyway, I recommend it to those like me who likes challenge and don't care too much about esthetics
.... My other setting currently: 0$, allow only 1,2,3 million loan, science preset to "harder" difficulty. And I actually left breakdown period on normal, because I don't see it fun to increase difficulty with shortening it.
Yesterday, after getting bored with other games, I tried out scenario editor. I recognized that it can be "tricked into" being custom difficulty setting for from-scratch sandbox game. So as Fossil possibly implied it can be used as a sort of advanced difficulty setting for normal sandbox game instead of typical scenario. Particularly the point is that I reduced the park rating guest multiplier to 20% which means that 1/5 of guests are arriving for each rate point. It's quite fun so far (I even decided to continue buying dlc-s), you cant now build a coaster just because you can afford it because it's maintenance cost will be higher than the income from tickets, lol. I'm still experimenting and will report back on my experience on how the difficulty changes as the park grows. I found no parameter which scales with time or park size in the editor unfortunately, but maybe the reduction of this value is of similar effect given that the bigger the ride the more difficult it's upkeep and so the park should reach a certain size before it becomes viable. It's also possible to increase guest happiness declination rate to above 100% - so far I didn't try this, but seems interesting. Anyway, I recommend it to those like me who likes challenge and don't care too much about esthetics
.... My other setting currently: 0$, allow only 1,2,3 million loan, science preset to "harder" difficulty. And I actually left breakdown period on normal, because I don't see it fun to increase difficulty with shortening it.Hi Bitula,
Wow - you're back! The number of guests depends on park rating modified by the park attractiveness variable. Park rating depends mostly on rides, scenery, and "park balance" (which has not been defined, but intuitively means the variety of "stuff" in the park). Marketing gives a boost to park rating, but the money is better spent on scenery, as the scenery investment results in a permanent boost. In practice this game mechanic encourages adding scenery after building rides until you have enough guests to keep things humming. Only then add more rides. Cheers!
Wow - you're back! The number of guests depends on park rating modified by the park attractiveness variable. Park rating depends mostly on rides, scenery, and "park balance" (which has not been defined, but intuitively means the variety of "stuff" in the park). Marketing gives a boost to park rating, but the money is better spent on scenery, as the scenery investment results in a permanent boost. In practice this game mechanic encourages adding scenery after building rides until you have enough guests to keep things humming. Only then add more rides. Cheers!
Yes, thx, I am aware of these rules: so I decreased the rating modifier from 100% to 20% in the editor which I believe increases difficulty by 5 times. At least it seems now the game is much more difficult (than the "harder" difficulty). I just built Insanity as my third ride, which probably was a mistake, it has a huge capacity but a very high upkeep, which was just too early. I'll see if I can survive this decision... Now thing is, that currently every guest is spending to it's last dollar in the park despite the park having zero facilities like drink shop or toilet. Maybe I will increase "guest happiness declination" variable to 200% to make this part harder as well.
Edit: maybe this thread could go now to general discussion, since it is not about suggestions anymore. Although I would still suggest introduction of some scaling variables, but it wont happen, so no point.
Edit: maybe this thread could go now to general discussion, since it is not about suggestions anymore. Although I would still suggest introduction of some scaling variables, but it wont happen, so no point.
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