[video request] improved AI

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I keep reading quite a few posts claiming the AI has improved in 1.4 despite minor bugs.

Now for a non-combat oriented player, I've actually done quite a lot of combat in CZs, RES and SSS since then due to the nature of most recent CGs and I have to say it has actually become worse.

Sure - I see them chaffing more (doesn't affect me) and I observed the SCB animation going off more frequently, but they seem to be fitted with a single E1 bank.

Maybe I've just had bad luck due to my own low combat ranking, so I'd kindly request you to post videos of the AI doing well.

 

[CatPaw]

I have played relatively all-round since beta and I can say it is in parts true that AI has improved. But. Every build seems to have its own new and dissapointing AI bug.

Was it 1.3 when NPC ships didnt feel like shooting back from time to time? In 1.4 they shoot pointlessly at nothing, kill themselves on asteroids, and my personal "favourite": slow to zero speed and star spinning. Dissapointing. And frustrating.

I dont think there are any videos of ED AI doing well.

 

[Alice Margatroid]

The ai is not that great at the best of times even when they are working, the fact they have poor loadouts (such as kenetic turrets on larger ships) often elite ships that dont have milspec armor, or at the least reflective. They do use chaff and scb's, but the timing on them usually is poor. For the most part, fighters are flown only by Pitching up with fa on, and with the exception of the eagle with twin rails, they really lack any real threat. the larger ships on occasion use fa off, to some effect, but really, only the fas holds any threat.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I have played relatively all-round since beta and I can say it is in parts true that AI has improved. But. Every build seems to have its own new and dissapointing AI bug.

Was it 1.3 when NPC ships didnt feel like shooting back from time to time? In 1.4 they shoot pointlessly at nothing, kill themselves on asteroids, and my personal "favourite": slow to zero speed and star spinning. Dissapointing. And frustrating.

I dont think there are any videos of ED AI doing well.

This is taken from today, farming a HAZ RES in Kaishpoos. You'll find I play cat and mouse with him and he still doesn't fire a single shot at me.
Hell, at times - I'm struggling to reach AI pirates before they kill themselves.

Having played since PB, I'd actually say the AI is at an all-time low.

All videos are taken from the same 30 minute session in the same HAZ RES in Kaishpoos today.
Could upload hours of the stuff, not even including Kebab footage.

Absolutely not directed at you, but people claim an improvement and I can't see it.
Shaky, unedited footage will suffice as you may have guessed .

 

[Herik]

I have played relatively all-round since beta and I can say it is in parts true that AI has improved. But. Every build seems to have its own new and dissapointing AI bug.

Was it 1.3 when NPC ships didnt feel like shooting back from time to time? In 1.4 they shoot pointlessly at nothing, kill themselves on asteroids, and my personal "favourite": slow to zero speed and star spinning. Dissapointing. And frustrating.

I dont think there are any videos of ED AI doing well.

I really don't think the AI at this point is in the hands of Sarah Jane Avery...

 

[noldunar]

I agree, the AI needs a big time boost. Difficulty should be tied to AI combat rank and in dangerous areas you should encounter dangerous AI. The high ranked AI should fly top notch ships: A-rated, optimized loadouts, they should be perfect at pip management and have deadly aim. I want AI that is on par with human players. If that can only achieved by allowing AI to cheat so be it. If I am in a Vulture and encounter a Vulture I want a battle on equal footing, depending on AI rank. Yes, I am serious and yes I play open. But I don't agree with the point that the only real challenge should come from players. If I am in a Haz Res with my courier I practically decide how much money I want to make...

 

[Jason S]

The AI.

They should have gone to Specsavers.

Or to Sarah.

 

[Don_Von_Hulio]

This is taken from today, farming a HAZ RES in Kaishpoos. You'll find I play cat and mouse with him and he still doesn't fire a single shot at me.
Hell, at times - I'm struggling to reach AI pirates before they kill themselves.

Having played since PB, I'd actually say the AI is at an all-time low.

All videos are taken from the same 30 minute session in the same HAZ RES in Kaishpoos today.
Could upload hours of the stuff, not even including Kebab footage.

Absolutely not directed at you, but people claim an improvement and I can't see it.
Shaky, unedited footage will suffice as you may have guessed .

Do you mind if i copy your HUD colors.... i like them.

But even if the Clipper handled better, you are in a Conda afterall. It aint like it had a chance anyways XD Maybe the NPCs have an intimidated factor and it makes them handle worse. Maybe its coincidence but after i passed 850k or so in warrants i noticed smaller ships would attempt to flee more often after dispatching one of their wing mates if not immediately. I know sometimes landing the first shot on an NPC or doing alot of damage in short time can sometimes shake them up too.


On a side not, three things i hate the most in Elite.
1. Beam Turrets
2. Scatter Cannons in general
3. Uninvited guests

 

[SpeakerToAliens]

Apart from ramming asteroids (and each other) the AI is a lot better in 1.4 then it was in 1.3. Didn't any of you notice all the whining and wailing and gnashing of teeth that happened in the first week after 1.4 was released by those who don't normally go looking for combat? Traders with unshielded ships were really upset, they used to be able to handle the NPCs but since 1.4 they just get blown away.

The AI may not be great in actual combat, but it's better than it was. They're sneakier, they use power management better, they will now target your modules and the higher they're graded the better they are. They may not make the wisest weapons loadout choices, but they never did and they may fire close range weapons at ludicrously long ranges, but they always did. Those features obviously weren't improved. They may not run when losing like a CMDR would, but I suspect that's deliberate - making a ship flee does not increase your combat rating, blowing one up does. The game's more fun that way. Can you imagine the complaints on here if NPCs always jumped away rather than waiting around to be blown up?

 

[Jerakeen]

The trouble with it is that it's inconsistant. In a RES the AI will often just sit still and not shoot back but when they do their weapons and shields are ridiculously overpowered.

My Python has A7 shields and a Vulture I've just been interdicted by was able to bring them down in about 30 seconds just using burst lasers. Meanwhile my lasers and multicannons hardly made a dent in his (and yes, I was hitting him)

I also have an Anaconda with the best shield and 6 boosters. This should be almost invulnerable against anything smaller than an FdL but since the last update I'm frequently getting my shields taken down by 3 or 4 Eagles.

Sometimes I wish we could go back to the old days when a game was released and that was it. No balancing, no nerfs. Just play it or don't play it.

So many times these days you buy a good game, a game with flaws but still fun to play. By the time the forum community has had it's way it's no longer the same game and somehow each change, while appeasing the loudest voices always seem to remove some of the fun from the game.

I feel sorry for people new to the game now. It's aimed fair and square at the hard core "It's called Elite Dangerous, you know" crowd who already have their skills honed and their ships upgraded. New players in a weak ship haven't got much chance any more.

 

[CatPaw]

This is taken from today, farming a HAZ RES in Kaishpoos. You'll find I play cat and mouse with him and he still doesn't fire a single shot at me.
Hell, at times - I'm struggling to reach AI pirates before they kill themselves.

Having played since PB, I'd actually say the AI is at an all-time low.

All videos are taken from the same 30 minute session in the same HAZ RES in Kaishpoos today.
Could upload hours of the stuff, not even including Kebab footage.

Absolutely not directed at you, but people claim an improvement and I can't see it.
Shaky, unedited footage will suffice as you may have guessed .

Yeah, I know.

AI programming seems to at good old "1 step foward, 2 steps backwards" pace. Hopefully some improvement comes with Horizons. Im a little worried about the planet surface AI. It could be a total circus. Hopefully not.

 

[Bertrand Du Guesclin]

This is taken from today, farming a HAZ RES in Kaishpoos. You'll find I play cat and mouse with him and he still doesn't fire a single shot at me.
Hell, at times - I'm struggling to reach AI pirates before they kill themselves.

Having played since PB, I'd actually say the AI is at an all-time low.

All videos are taken from the same 30 minute session in the same HAZ RES in Kaishpoos today.
Could upload hours of the stuff, not even including Kebab footage.

Absolutely not directed at you, but people claim an improvement and I can't see it.
Shaky, unedited footage will suffice as you may have guessed .

Sadly you are right. The main problem of the current AI is the lack of consistency.

Currently, the AI seems to handle some ships much better than others. I find Pythons, Clippers, FDLs and Vultures laughably easy, even when they don't bug completely and spin in place.

The Anaconda is in the middle, it depends if it has turrets or not. It is pretty much the same for small ships, some are good, some are bad, but you can't ignore them as much as you used to.

The toughest opponents IMO are the FAS, FDS and FGS. They turn fast, make good use of the positionnal thrusters, and seem to manage their energy quite well.

edit : also, the NPC skill level seems to have an impact, but only above Dangerous. Some Dangerous ships can pose a threat, most Deadly and Elite will be tough, unless they are in a Python, Clipper, or FDL.

Every rank lower than Dangerous is a shade of "Harmless"

 

[WiseDuck]

Don't talk about the sacred cow that is the AI, Sarah's knights will chop ya head off.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Do you mind if i copy your HUD colors.... i like them.

But even if the Clipper handled better, you are in a Conda afterall. It aint like it had a chance anyways XD Maybe the NPCs have an intimidated factor and it makes them handle worse. Maybe its coincidence but after i passed 850k or so in warrants i noticed smaller ships would attempt to flee more often after dispatching one of their wing mates if not immediately. I know sometimes landing the first shot on an NPC or doing alot of damage in short time can sometimes shake them up too.


On a side not, three things i hate the most in Elite.
1. Beam Turrets
2. Scatter Cannons in general
3. Uninvited guests

Sure - go ahead (set HUD brightness to minimum).

I've noticed them charging their FSDs once the 'alpha animal' is down, yet they don't run. Maybe that's deliberate because people could complain about it as SpeakerToAliens suggests. Can't really confirm your other observations, but keep them coming - I'll see if I can see the same.
One thing that really annoys me is turrets on AI Eagles and Vipers - they have some of the most nimble ships with perfect convergence yet very limited firepower and they fit turrets? Yeah - makes sense...

I also have an Anaconda with the best shield and 6 boosters. This should be almost invulnerable against anything smaller than an FdL but since the last update I'm frequently getting my shields taken down by 3 or 4 Eagles.

It appears to be better in larger numbers and I think you're on to something here. To me, it seems the AI probably goes into some kind of defensive mode when taking damage, putting all pips into sys and hence not having enough wep capacitor to shoot back (old bug). In wings, at least the other ships will shoot at the player. Individually, they're just as bad though (wing of three Vipers, two of them ram themselves into asteroids.)

edit : also, the NPC skill level seems to have an impact, but only above Dangerous. Some Dangerous ships can pose a threat, most Deadly and Elite will be tough, unless they are in a Python, Clipper, or FDL.

Yeah - some are better than others and I only observe the death roll in certain types. However I can't confirm Elite and Deadly being much better. In CZ, Elite Anacondas seemed to have stronger shields and armour, but the were just as passive as the other ones.

Anyway - trying to be constructive here. Most participants in the thread claim the AI has improved, but having farmed ~33 mill in the ED CGs and 18 mill in the Kaushpoos CG, I honestly can't see any improvement - rather the opposite.

I'd really love to see some footage of that improved AI as I didn't have the chance to see it yet.

 

[Bzek]

One thing that really annoys me is turrets on AI Eagles and Vipers - they have some of the most nimble ships with perfect convergence yet very limited firepower and they fit turrets? Yeah - makes sense...

Yep, agreed. It makes engaging a slightly larger ship on a smaller but more maneuverable ship (say, go against a Viper with an Eagle) annoying since even when you are completely in their flank they are still pelting your puny defenses with turrets.

That said, recently I have seen more rails and PA in NPC ships and they are really accurate with them. Sometimes turns into a very unpleasant surprise.

That, and as mentioned before, the AI seems to handle the FAS very well. It is probably the NPC ship I most dislike going against.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

Yep, agreed. It makes engaging a slightly larger ship on a smaller but more maneuverable ship (say, go against a Viper with an Eagle) annoying since even when you are completely in their flank they are still pelting your puny defenses with turrets.

That said, recently I have seen more rails and PA in NPC ships and they are really accurate with them. Sometimes turns into a very unpleasant surprise.

That, and as mentioned before, the AI seems to handle the FAS very well. It is probably the NPC ship I most dislike going against.

I actually meant they needlessly gimp their damage output. I usually fly small ships when I'm not after some CG quota but never found the AI too challenging when flying those either. Seems they go even easier on smaller ships to make it easier for newcomers (which makes sense as smaller ships are probably regarded as a smaller threat).

Other than their nasty ramming power, I didn't observe anything special about the FAS. Can't say I have a ship I dislike going against - probably Sidewinders as they pay so little.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

I dont think there are any videos of ED AI doing well.

Looks like you're right and I kind of expected it myself.

I sense a slight discrepancy between many claiming it was improved and nobody being able to upload a single one showing it though, so please FD, get SJA back on the AI asap.