Viewing Pleasure Opinion

[Skatez69]

At the moment I play Elite on a 27" monitor at 1920x1080. I'm wanting to upgrade my viewing pleasure, but am struggling to come to a conclusion. I've been looking at a couple of different options for a while now and would value opinions from commanders who actually fly with one of these options...

What I'm looking at is either the Valve Index VR solution (https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex) or super-widescreen monitor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NL27TCK/). Both come in at around a grand - the Valve Index is £919 and the monitor is £1140 (but has been as low as £990 - the price fluctuates a lot) - although Black Friday is coming up, so who knows if anything will get discounted...

My computer runs a GTX1080 so should be able to drive either solution, but I'm not adverse to getting a next-gen graphics card to support the best possible experience. I work from home, so the monitor I have is shared with my work's laptop. If I go with the monitor path, then it would also be useful for work (I'm a developer), but if I go with VR, then I'll just have to continue with the monitor I have for work stuff.

I fly with Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, and have heard good things about VR, but I prefer to be able to switch to Inara, etc in game, and also be able to see my hands. The monitor on the other hand, isn't VR and I don't know how Elite would look at 5120x1440.. stretch much?

What are people's thoughts on these things, and a long shot, but are there any commanders in the East of England that fly VR that I could visit to take a look and see what it's like before I stump up a grand in cash?

 

[NorthernDevo]

I'd like to try VR myself someday, but at the moment I play ED on a Dell 32" monitor and it's quite great for me.
Like you I prefer switching between apps, and am not ready to go running out to buy new stuff quite yet.
Still, VR looks cool and being able to look around without using the thumb would be a great benefit.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I’ve been playing on a vive for years and probably upgrading to index over Black Friday (just waiting to see if there’s a sale). The vive ecosystem is open source/open hardware so things tend to be compatible with eachother.

I highly recommend it. Resolution isn’t as good but the experience is superior.

I question FDevs future commitment to VR but at the moment it’s pretty good.

 

[Skatez69]

what's the VR experience actually like in real terms @Turd Ferguson ? Do you get full 3D depth perception, or is it still just a flat image that you happen to be able to look around in? Are the edges of the eye displays noticeable or are you completely absorbed into the experience?

My only experience of VR is decades ago on an arcade machine and that was pretty crappy - just felt like you had a couple of heavy monitors strapped to your head. Is it still like that?

Resolution of the Valve Index is 1440x1600 per eye... that's not too shabby!

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I’d like to add that with VR you’ll probably want a good HOTAS setup, which all the hardcore players will tell you is inferior to keyboard controls...and it is if you’re playing Elite as a game but if you want the experience VR is the way to go....and there’s always Mobius for your HOTAS “handicap”.

 

[rhiz]

At the moment I play Elite on a 27" monitor at 1920x1080. I'm wanting to upgrade my viewing pleasure, but am struggling to come to a conclusion. I've been looking at a couple of different options for a while now and would value opinions from commanders who actually fly with one of these options...

What I'm looking at is either the Valve Index VR solution (https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex) or super-widescreen monitor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NL27TCK/). Both come in at around a grand - the Valve Index is £919 and the monitor is £1140 (but has been as low as £990 - the price fluctuates a lot) - although Black Friday is coming up, so who knows if anything will get discounted...

My computer runs a GTX1080 so should be able to drive either solution, but I'm not adverse to getting a next-gen graphics card to support the best possible experience. I work from home, so the monitor I have is shared with my work's laptop. If I go with the monitor path, then it would also be useful for work (I'm a developer), but if I go with VR, then I'll just have to continue with the monitor I have for work stuff.

I fly with Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, and have heard good things about VR, but I prefer to be able to switch to Inara, etc in game, and also be able to see my hands. The monitor on the other hand, isn't VR and I don't know how Elite would look at 5120x1440.. stretch much?

What are people's thoughts on these things, and a long shot, but are there any commanders in the East of England that fly VR that I could visit to take a look and see what it's like before I stump up a grand in cash?

I'd choose VR every time - yes, there are some inconveniences but nothing compares to the feeling of sitting in your ship, looking around etc. I damaged my Rift recently and just couldn't play in pancake mode (4K screen). Remarkably, Oculus sent me a replacement out of warranty.

 

[rhiz]

what's the VR experience actually like in real terms @Turd Ferguson ? Do you get full 3D depth perception, or is it still just a flat image that you happen to be able to look around in? Are the edges of the eye displays noticeable or are you completely absorbed into the experience?

My only experience of VR is decades ago on an arcade machine and that was pretty crappy - just felt like you had a couple of heavy monitors strapped to your head. Is it still like that?

Yes, full 3D depth. Resolution aside (which you soon get use to), it's like being there - it's great.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

what's the VR experience actually like in real terms @Turd Ferguson ? Do you get full 3D depth perception, or is it still just a flat image that you happen to be able to look around in? Are the edges of the eye displays noticeable or are you completely absorbed into the experience?

My only experience of VR is decades ago on an arcade machine and that was pretty crappy - just felt like you had a couple of heavy monitors strapped to your head. Is it still like that?

everything is rendered in 3D. You can get up and walk around the ship. There’s some VR walk around videoes on YouTube.

you are literally inside a space ship flying it. It’s really hard to explain. One drawback- you can’t see your controls so you have to remember by touch all your mappings (and you’ll need a bunch). Typing is awkward and of course you can forget about switching windows.

 

[Skatez69]

Is the 3D experience convincing, say Avatar, or a bit more fake, say Jaws 3D? When you're playing, what's your perception of the edge of your screens like? Do you notice them much?

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Is the 3D experience convincing, say Avatar, or a bit more fake, say Jaws 3D? When you're playing, what's your perception of the edge of your screens like? Do you notice them much?

it looks exactly like it does on your screen, but all around you. It doesn't look "real" I guess. A video card that powerful doesn't actually exist yet. However being immersed in it is very convincing to your brain. It's not quote a cartoon....it's like you're in a video game I guess. There is really no screen edge. No matter where you look, you see the game. If you look up you see the roof of your ship (or the canopy) if you look down, you see your lap and in Lakon ships you can also see out the bottom of the canopy. if you look behind you you see the door out to the rest of the ship and the MC stations. If you "get out" of your chair get on your hands and knees and look under the flight console you see what's under the flight console.

If you mean the display edge, you don't really notice it. It's kind of like wearing glasses or a diving mask. your brain starts to ignore the "blank" parts of your field of vision. The vive has pretty good FOV, and the index is even better so you really don't notice it. The biggest thing to keep in mind is that the resolution isn't that great at least in the Vive...I hear on the Index its better. There are of course tweaks to make it perfectly playable but even then, it can be hard to read the smaller writing and displays, especially around the edges of your vision. The Index is supposed to be better as it has something like double the resolution. However, it's still worth it. I have 2 4K monitors and I still play in VR almost exclusively.

this guy has a whole series of videos of VR walkaround of various ships. you can see what it looks like, but it still doesn't give you the experience.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx6ouSsdNI4

 

[Deleted member 182079]

At the moment I play Elite on a 27" monitor at 1920x1080

Presuming you're sitting at a desk, isn't that awfully pixelated? I'm on a 22" monitor and my laptop can run Elite just about at 50/60fps @ 1080p (thankfully the screen allows for 50hz making it almost as smooth as a solid 60fps) at medium/high settings - thought about a 24" monitor upgrade a while back and even there was already concerned about image quality at that resolution.

As for VR, I'd love to some day, but with the above hardware restrictions it's not an option for me so I'm playing with TrackIR instead, which imo is the next best thing. Can highly recommend it and with a big screen it's even better.

 

[Stealthie]

Unpopular opinion: Not keen on VR for games like ED because there's too much time where I'm not staring at the screen with my hands on the controls.

Been trying out various VR solutions for almost 20 years and, while they usually provide an amazing visual experience, it's far too often a case of taking the headset off to do a bunch of stuff then putting it back on to play for a while, then taking it off again....

Until somebody comes up with a VR headset that has an acceptable "pass-through" function, that allows me to see the real-world when I want to and then revert to VR, it's multi-monitors all the way for me.

 

[Skatez69]

Unpopular opinion: Not keen on VR for games like ED because there's too much time where I'm not staring at the screen with my hands on the controls.

Been trying out various VR solutions for almost 20 years and, while they usually provide an amazing visual experience, it's far too often a case of taking the headset off to do a bunch of stuff then putting it back on to play for a while, then taking it off again....

Until somebody comes up with a VR headset that has an acceptable "pass-through" function, that allows me to see the real-world when I want to and then revert to VR, it's multi-monitors all the way for me.

Not at all unpopular @Stealthie , all opinions are welcome here, that's kind of the point to the thread.
The Valve Index does have dual cameras mounted on the front and they claim they are very keen for modders and programmers to play around with stuff... hopefully an app will come along that will be able to use those cameras to project into the headset... that would be ace!

 

[Skatez69]

Presuming you're sitting at a desk, isn't that awfully pixelated? I'm on a 22" monitor and my laptop can run Elite just about at 50/60fps @ 1080p (thankfully the screen allows for 50hz making it almost as smooth as a solid 60fps) at medium/high settings - thought about a 24" monitor upgrade a while back and even there was already concerned about image quality at that resolution.

As for VR, I'd love to some day, but with the above hardware restrictions it's not an option for me so I'm playing with TrackIR instead, which imo is the next best thing. Can highly recommend it and with a big screen it's even better.

Yeah... I'm perhaps 2ft away from my screen and it doesn't look as sharp as I'd like, hence the upgrade and you know what they say - go big or go home! lol
looked at TrackIR, played with it and didn't think much to it. Looked also at Tobii Eye Tracker (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MAWPMXQ) and at £149 that doesn't look too bad. If I go with the super-wide option that might have to be a thing.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Unpopular opinion: Not keen on VR for games like ED because there's too much time where I'm not staring at the screen with my hands on the controls.

Been trying out various VR solutions for almost 20 years and, while they usually provide an amazing visual experience, it's far too often a case of taking the headset off to do a bunch of stuff then putting it back on to play for a while, then taking it off again....

Until somebody comes up with a VR headset that has an acceptable "pass-through" function, that allows me to see the real-world when I want to and then revert to VR, it's multi-monitors all the way for me.

the Vive and Index has forward-facing cameras that can potentially do this, but I don't think current video cards can handle it. They DO have "matrix mode" which shows you the outlines of your environment when you push a button. I believe the Windows AR solutions all allow you to look through the display. At least I think they do - I don't have one.

 

[Arioch]

I use a Rift S that has a good enough pass-through view for me to be able to type system names into the search box.

The 6 degrees of freedom and 3D stereoscopic vision of VR fooled my brain straight away, it’s like being in a real place, just one that’s at a lower resolution than the real world.

I’m looking forward to trying out a tethered Oculus Quest this month, once the update is released.

For me, once I tried Elite in VR, there was no going back to flatscreen. As I’ve said before, it’s the difference between playing a game about flying a spaceship, and flying a spaceship

 

[VR jefranklin18]

At the moment I play Elite on a 27" monitor at 1920x1080. I'm wanting to upgrade my viewing pleasure, but am struggling to come to a conclusion. I've been looking at a couple of different options for a while now and would value opinions from commanders who actually fly with one of these options...

What I'm looking at is either the Valve Index VR solution (https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex) or super-widescreen monitor (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07NL27TCK/). Both come in at around a grand - the Valve Index is £919 and the monitor is £1140 (but has been as low as £990 - the price fluctuates a lot) - although Black Friday is coming up, so who knows if anything will get discounted...

My computer runs a GTX1080 so should be able to drive either solution, but I'm not adverse to getting a next-gen graphics card to support the best possible experience. I work from home, so the monitor I have is shared with my work's laptop. If I go with the monitor path, then it would also be useful for work (I'm a developer), but if I go with VR, then I'll just have to continue with the monitor I have for work stuff.

I fly with Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS, and have heard good things about VR, but I prefer to be able to switch to Inara, etc in game, and also be able to see my hands. The monitor on the other hand, isn't VR and I don't know how Elite would look at 5120x1440.. stretch much?

What are people's thoughts on these things, and a long shot, but are there any commanders in the East of England that fly VR that I could visit to take a look and see what it's like before I stump up a grand in cash?

Played for ages on a 32" monitor but then my wife got me an Occ Rift a few birthdays ago and have never looked back. If going down the VR path, I would also suggest shelling out an additional £8 (I think it is) for Voice Attack and setting that up properly. It makes it a lot easier (even with a good HOTAS mapping).

ED in VR is my favourite gaming experience. There have been times after a bad day at work when just trucking in a T7, having NPCs and actual players buzzing past you while on a CG. with planets passing the side windows take you out of the nonsense of the day and puts you somewhere else more pleasant.

The only downside is it can be tiring to wear them for prolonged periods, so I limit my sessions to no more than about 5 hours at a time.

 

[Dagwit]

For me, once I tried Elite in VR, there was no going back to flatscreen. As I’ve said before, it’s the difference between playing a game about flying a spaceship, and flying a spaceship

+1

I struggle to fly a ship in flatscreen. After three years in VR, I just feel too detached from the flatscreen experience.

And yet Stealthie's not exactly wrong either. There's a huge price to be paid in terms of convenience, to which I would also add comfort - the headsets are not comfortable - and resolution. I can barely read in-game text in my Rift, and other ships are not much more than blobs till they get up close. And I look at YouTube videos of the game and think, "So that's what it looks like!"

But at the end of the day, when you're looking at a screen you're looking at a screen. In VR, you're there.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

Yeah... I'm perhaps 2ft away from my screen and it doesn't look as sharp as I'd like, hence the upgrade and you know what they say - go big or go home! lol
looked at TrackIR, played with it and didn't think much to it. Looked also at Tobii Eye Tracker (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MAWPMXQ) and at £149 that doesn't look too bad. If I go with the super-wide option that might have to be a thing.

At least with your gear you have some headroom performance wise, I'm pretty much maxed at 1080, anything higher and I'd be looking at 30fps and reducing graphics settings.

As for the TrackIR, out of interest what was the problem with it? For me I guess it's the need to have to sit in a reasonably static position, and wearing a silly hat/cap (I have no shame though and family members even stopped laughing at me...). Took a while to get used to it, but now being happy with the settings I found perfect for my needs I don't like to play Elite without it.

Eye tracking I never tried, wonder how accurate it is.

 

[Arioch]

+1

I struggle to fly a ship in flatscreen. After three years in VR, I just feel too detached from the flatscreen experience.

And yet Stealthie's not exactly wrong either. There's a huge price to be paid in terms of convenience, to which I would also add comfort - the headsets are not comfortable - and resolution. I can barely read in-game text in my Rift, and other ships are not much more than blobs till they get up close. And I look at YouTube videos of the game and think, "So that's what it looks like!"

But at the end of the day, when you're looking at a screen you're looking at a screen. In VR, you're there.

I was really happy when I side-graded to the Rift S from the CV1, the increase in clarity was very noticeable, godrays virtually gone, and worth (in my opinion) losing deep blacks and bass sounds for. Pumping up the in-game HMD quality really helps the clarity, if you’ve got the hardware, while other settings have helped mitigate the other issues.

I felt it was like going from sitting too close to a CRT telly to sitting too close to a 1024x768 lcd monitor