Hardware & Technical VKB Joystick Anyone?
- Thread starter wrmiller
- Start date
Their sticks have always been generally well praised from what I've seen. I just ordered their rudder pedals and will be taking them out for a spin when I get home from work in a week and a half so if no one else has chimed in by then I'll at least have a few hours of flight time with them. I also just ordered their new Gunfighter stick which will start shipping in batches tomorrow so when mine shows up I'll be able to chime in with how those are. VKB's stuff has been pretty well regarded from what I've read so far, they just haven't really become a household name outside of the really hardcore sim communities. I will mention that if you do a ton of flight simming on the side you may wanna consider going with some Crosswinds or Slaw pedals mostly because they have toe brakes and the VKB pedals don't. The upshot to the VKB pedals is they're still a high quality pedal but won't break the bank as hard and are more of a vertical movement rather than a horizontal one so VKB's pedals won't have any issues with sliding around and if you have limited under desk space to work with and/or long legs, it makes the VKB pedals a better choice (at least I think so).
The space sim stick is still in the designing stage and they have been collecting feedback from Elite/Star Citizen players on their forum regarding what features space simmers would like to see in a stick and it's specifically being designed as a left handed stick for twin stick setups. The stick, much like their upcoming Modern Combat Grip will be require a base of some sort to mount it on to. Either one of their older stick bases, one of their newer Gladiator Pro or Gunfighter bases, or a Thrustmaster Cougar or Warthog via an adapter. The design will be finalized after their throttle which is the next product they're going to focus heavily on rolling out after the Modern Combat Grip starts shipping.
Details on the throttle are pretty light. We know that it's their next product in line and that it will have swappable grips so you can have either a WW2 or modern jet fighter style grip on it with single or dual engine controls but that's about it.
I found their Cobra M5 joystick distinctly underwhelming - the grip was too thin, the buttons were badly placed and relied on a horrible mode switch, the twist was extremely sensitive (and used a potentiometer), the other axes were also very sensitive but used hall-effect sensors so were very accurate.
The Gladiator II offering looks much more promising (no pots) but it is emulating WWII fighter controls so lacks on-stick buttons (there are lots on the base though). [ X-plane dot org are touting it and the pedals on their website and in the x-plane marketing mails http://store-x-plane-org.3dcartstores.com/Gladiator-MK-II_p_595.html ]
The Gladiator II offering looks much more promising (no pots) but it is emulating WWII fighter controls so lacks on-stick buttons (there are lots on the base though). [ X-plane dot org are touting it and the pedals on their website and in the x-plane marketing mails http://store-x-plane-org.3dcartstores.com/Gladiator-MK-II_p_595.html ]
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Thanks for the info guys.
I consider myself more of a flight simmer than space jockey (DCS, A2A P51 and Spitfire in FSX). The heads up on the non-existent toe brakes is appreciated, thanks. I have never heard of Crosswinds or Slaw pedals, but will google them and see what I find. I too received the email from x-plane, hence the questions about VKB.
I like the fact that I can adapt a Warthog stick to the VKB base with it's metal gimbal mechanism, but this scenario would require buying both parts separately, at a significant cost I'm sure, and doing the adaptation myself. I also came across RealSimulator's new Thompson Strain Gage module for the Warthog (FSSB R3?) but this scenario could also get spendy real quick.
I think I'm going to wait and see what their (VKB's) throttle looks like when it comes out. Choices...
I consider myself more of a flight simmer than space jockey (DCS, A2A P51 and Spitfire in FSX). The heads up on the non-existent toe brakes is appreciated, thanks. I have never heard of Crosswinds or Slaw pedals, but will google them and see what I find. I too received the email from x-plane, hence the questions about VKB.
I like the fact that I can adapt a Warthog stick to the VKB base with it's metal gimbal mechanism, but this scenario would require buying both parts separately, at a significant cost I'm sure, and doing the adaptation myself. I also came across RealSimulator's new Thompson Strain Gage module for the Warthog (FSSB R3?) but this scenario could also get spendy real quick.
I think I'm going to wait and see what their (VKB's) throttle looks like when it comes out. Choices...
Yeah, if they only offered the WW2 style sticks I wouldn't be trying out the VKB stuff but their upcoming Modern Combat Grip looks hot as fuuuuuuuuuuck and has more buttons than I think I'll know what to do with. I'm gonna be slapping the MCG on my Gunfighter as soon as possible.
Thanks for the info guys.
I consider myself more of a flight simmer than space jockey (DCS, A2A P51 and Spitfire in FSX). The heads up on the non-existent toe brakes is appreciated, thanks. I have never heard of Crosswinds or Slaw pedals, but will google them and see what I find. I too received the email from x-plane, hence the questions about VKB.
I like the fact that I can adapt a Warthog stick to the VKB base with it's metal gimbal mechanism, but this scenario would require buying both parts separately, at a significant cost I'm sure, and doing the adaptation myself. I also came across RealSimulator's new Thompson Strain Gage module for the Warthog (FSSB R3?) but this scenario could also get spendy real quick.
I think I'm going to wait and see what their (VKB's) throttle looks like when it comes out. Choices...
Oh man, if you're into flight sims then MFG Crosswind and Slaw Device pedals are both the tippy top tier of rudder pedals. You can't go wrong with either option and they're both adored by the sim communities. Literally the only reason I didn't get one of those is because I'm desk bound currently and I've used cheaper, but similar pedals in the past with bad experiences due purely to ergonomics. That style of pedal is really uncomfortable for me to use at a desk so VKB's more vertical motion is super appealing. The lack of toe brakes will suck but I'm primarily a space sim player so when I do go dabble in IL-2 I can just emulate the toe brakes via a mode switch button or bind it to one of the axis options on my throttle or something like that. Eventually I wanna ditch my desk for an Obutto or similar cockpit and when I do I'm gonna invest in some Slaw Device pedals, mostly just because I think they're super damn cool looking.
And yeah, I'm really intrigued by what they're going to be offering for a throttle. For now, I've got a Thrustmaster FCS and I'll be switching to a dual stick setup for space simming and using the throttle for occasional flight sim stuff so I'm pretty comfortable doing a wait and see on the VKB throttle option.
I'm starting to have pretty bad glitches on my X-55 and I've been doing a lot of HOTAS research. Once I found VKB I pretty much decided that's what I want to replace it with... except all the goodies appear to still be in development (Modern combat grip, throttle, and the Enhanced Control Panel for Gunfighter) So now I'm in a fix, do I want to get something in the meantime or deal with my current HOTAS until the MCG or Throttle come out... either way I'm sold on VKB products from what I've seen.
Depending on what they do with the Kosmosima grip, I may go with that or I may prefer the MCG... though depends on which has the best button selection.
Depending on what they do with the Kosmosima grip, I may go with that or I may prefer the MCG... though depends on which has the best button selection.
I'm using a Gladiator and I have to say it is serving me well. Not too small but not to big either and for my relatively large hands it fits great. The quality is good and my only real gripe about it is that the rudder twist is a little stiff compared to the other inputs.
I'm sort of in the same boat, although my X52 Pro is still serviceable. Their (VKB) current offerings would work for my P-51/Spitfire sims, but I'd still be waiting for the throttle. And as I also like to fly F/A-18s and starships in ED I would want something with a few more bells and whistles on it for them.
I just wish I knew the approx. timeframe for their new stick and throttle, as that would help with the decision-making.
They just announced 3 variants on their Modern Combat grip. They were originally predicting a June shipping date for it. I hope it doesn't slip much, my Gunfighter base is going to be lonely until then.
I've decided to get a Gunfighter Base-Only also, since any of the other items I'm interested in aren't available yet... Gives me time to save up for the other bits I suppose
I had to ditch my old CH setup when I moved due to a lack of space (I could only fit so much into my car ;_; ) and I want to mess around with a twin stick setup, but I also really want to try VKB's stuff so what I did was buy a Thrustmaster FCS to hold me over. I can use the FCS on its own until my Gunfighter gets in and then try twin stick style. From there I can determine whether I wanna roll traditional HOTAS or Twin Stick with a spare throttle for occasional drunken IL-2ing. The FCS parts can then tide me over either way until the VKB Throttle and Kosmosima stick comes out Once I have a pure VKB setup (assuming I like their stuff) I'm going to sell my Thrustmaster which should be in perfectly fine condition still.
The Gunfighter preorders are getting filled right now so I should have my Gunfighter soon to get this ball rolling
Also, you can reserve a Gunfighter with VKB North America by shooting them an email. I have a Gunfighter Base on hold for when the Kosmosima stick finally comes out.
The Cobra M5 is a fantastic joystick. Well made but it is a little small. Someone mentioned the buttons are awkward, which is kinda true, but you do get used to them. Joystick Curves are a must since the Cobra is sensitive. Once configured you can aim with fixed weapons like a surgeon. It is way more accurate and better made than the cheap feeling X52. I use the throttle of the X52 and the stick of the Cobra M5. Great combo. Well worth the money.
I picked up the Gladiator Pro MkII last week and I have to say that the feel of the action of those gimbals and the accuracy at small deflections is great - my only basis for comparison is the X-55 (wanted to love it, but such hard work to deal with) then the TM TWCS (fantastic for the money), but still...
Another point to make if you're thinking about going the VKB route: they use an onboard controller called njoy32, it doesn't need specific windows drivers or software over the top, your configurations are saved directly to the eprom in the device. If you are a techy type or a tinkerer the possibilities here are amazing. You can set a button so it no longer shows, but while held changes other buttons to a secondary button, I've even been able to swap the function of one of the buttons to be an "axis swap" and it changes x-axis to be an Rx-axis on the fly (mainly for being lazy in flight sims while taxiing - no twist on the pro).
I've put it through its paces the last week and highly recommend it, the fact they are modular and have specific grips in the works is just the icing on the cake.
The space sim grip seems to be specifically off hand only though, are people getting the gunfighter bases for twin stick action?
Another point to make if you're thinking about going the VKB route: they use an onboard controller called njoy32, it doesn't need specific windows drivers or software over the top, your configurations are saved directly to the eprom in the device. If you are a techy type or a tinkerer the possibilities here are amazing. You can set a button so it no longer shows, but while held changes other buttons to a secondary button, I've even been able to swap the function of one of the buttons to be an "axis swap" and it changes x-axis to be an Rx-axis on the fly (mainly for being lazy in flight sims while taxiing - no twist on the pro).
I've put it through its paces the last week and highly recommend it, the fact they are modular and have specific grips in the works is just the icing on the cake.
The space sim grip seems to be specifically off hand only though, are people getting the gunfighter bases for twin stick action?
I got ahold of VKB America about requesting a Gunfighter base only and heard back from them right away, try again?
I got my Gunfighter in before I had to go to work and was able to get a little bit of stick time with it and yeah. Wow. Worth every damn penny. The cam system they're using results in the stick feeling like nothing I've ever used before. For reference, I've logged hours on the Saitek X-52, the CH Fighterstick, and the Thrustmaster FCS in both flight and space sims. Unlike other sticks where the traditional internal design results in generally constant tension from center all the way to the edges and in the stick wanting to always snap back to center, the Gunfighter's cam system results in a stick that has no real resistance at the center with increasing tension as you get to the edges and if you let go of the stick it smoothly recenters instead of just snapping back. This means very fine movements are incredibly precise and the further out you go with heavy stick movements the heavier the resistance becomes resulting in you not having to think at all about what you're doing with the stick. Controlling your spaceship/plane/whatever just becomes instinctive and as an added bonus, this is a lot closer to how a real stick behaves so the immersion factor goes up too.
The joystick is designed to be tinkered with as well. The Gunfighter comes with a bunch of spare springs of varying tension and when combined with the dry clutch system, you can really go nuts fine tuning how the stick behaves. Also, it comes with an alternate set of cams that you can swap in that create a center detent if you really want one on your stick. Personally, I'm sticking with the default cams as I really like having that super fine control available since I also dabble in flight sims but I could see wanting the detent in if you primarily play Elite. Finally, the Gunfighter is built like a tank and I'm pretty damn sure this thing is going to outlive me, especially when you factor in that it's user rebuildable in case something does happen.
I plugged my VKB T-Rudder into the Gunfighter's Black Box and my system detected my controller totally fine. I then used my old Thrustmater FCS throttle with the KG-12 stick that my Gunfighter came with during my super quick DCS test run and I was able to bind everything nbd for a quick little test flight in the trainer P-51. From there I did a quick binding test in Elite to see how a twin stick mapping would pan out and everything worked just fine. I'll need to wait until the MCG comes out for that though since the KG-12 only has two buttons and a hat on it so it's super inadequate for trying to twin stick fly in Elite. I have some spare control room on my FCS throttle though so I think I'll be able to get by for now using the Gunfighter coupled with the FCS Throttle just because I really don't want to go back to using the FCS as my primary throttle.
So yeah, I am absolutely thrilled with my purchase and am incredibly glad I reserved a Gunfighter Base for when the Space Sim stick finally releases. When the Modern Combat Grip becomes available I will definitely preorder the out of it and really go nuts logging hours on the Gunfighter. I'll also absolutely be snapping up their throttle once it comes out because the Gunfighter is just that good. If you're looking for a high end stick I would not hesitate to recommend the VKB Gunfighter because it just drank Thrustmaster's milkshake.
The joystick is designed to be tinkered with as well. The Gunfighter comes with a bunch of spare springs of varying tension and when combined with the dry clutch system, you can really go nuts fine tuning how the stick behaves. Also, it comes with an alternate set of cams that you can swap in that create a center detent if you really want one on your stick. Personally, I'm sticking with the default cams as I really like having that super fine control available since I also dabble in flight sims but I could see wanting the detent in if you primarily play Elite. Finally, the Gunfighter is built like a tank and I'm pretty damn sure this thing is going to outlive me, especially when you factor in that it's user rebuildable in case something does happen.
I plugged my VKB T-Rudder into the Gunfighter's Black Box and my system detected my controller totally fine. I then used my old Thrustmater FCS throttle with the KG-12 stick that my Gunfighter came with during my super quick DCS test run and I was able to bind everything nbd for a quick little test flight in the trainer P-51. From there I did a quick binding test in Elite to see how a twin stick mapping would pan out and everything worked just fine. I'll need to wait until the MCG comes out for that though since the KG-12 only has two buttons and a hat on it so it's super inadequate for trying to twin stick fly in Elite. I have some spare control room on my FCS throttle though so I think I'll be able to get by for now using the Gunfighter coupled with the FCS Throttle just because I really don't want to go back to using the FCS as my primary throttle.
So yeah, I am absolutely thrilled with my purchase and am incredibly glad I reserved a Gunfighter Base for when the Space Sim stick finally releases. When the Modern Combat Grip becomes available I will definitely preorder the out of it and really go nuts logging hours on the Gunfighter. I'll also absolutely be snapping up their throttle once it comes out because the Gunfighter is just that good. If you're looking for a high end stick I would not hesitate to recommend the VKB Gunfighter because it just drank Thrustmaster's milkshake.
Just brought the Gladiator Pro 2 and swapped out the stick for my Warthog stick.
Took me a while to get it working. 5 buttons on the warthog do not work.
Apparently ED only recognises 32 buttons, the Gladiator with Warthog stick has 37.
See here about 32 buttons
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-handle-controllers-with-more-than-32-buttons
I tried to use VKBs utilities to resolve this issue but could not this figure out
There is no Documentation with the Utilities, well I could not find any.
So my workaround was to use keyboard binds and then SVMapper to map them onto the Warthog stick
Something to bear in mind ..... How many buttons in total will the Modern Combat Grip and the Gladiator base have in total ?
Took me a while to get it working. 5 buttons on the warthog do not work.
Apparently ED only recognises 32 buttons, the Gladiator with Warthog stick has 37.
See here about 32 buttons
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-handle-controllers-with-more-than-32-buttons
I tried to use VKBs utilities to resolve this issue but could not this figure out
There is no Documentation with the Utilities, well I could not find any.
So my workaround was to use keyboard binds and then SVMapper to map them onto the Warthog stick
Something to bear in mind ..... How many buttons in total will the Modern Combat Grip and the Gladiator base have in total ?
Yeah, VKB's software is pretty powerful but definitely hard to get into without doing some research/getting some help. If I had to list a negative for their products it'd be that. Thankfully their forum is a pretty chill place to get answers from. From what I've seen the community and the company are all pretty good about helping each other out so I'd float your question about using their software to limit the buttons over on their tech support board ( http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewforum.php?f=25 ).
Also the MCG is gonna have 16 buttons and 5 analog axes and the MCG-Pro will have 24 buttons and 6 analog axes so....yeah this is actually a damn good question cause I fully plan on sticking an MCG on my Gunfighter >_> That grip on a Gladiator is gonna be a load of buttons and I have no idea how ED will register those axes.
(For reference: https://vkbcontrollers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/MCG-Announce-Final-1.jpg )
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