VR transitions from cockpit to walking in ED

lysan · May 11, 2016

So I was wondering, how will the transition be between sitting in your seat in the cockpit, and getting out and walking.

Are there any games / Simulations out there doing it right now? We also need to see how the EVA will be done.

Looking at it, we have seen how Adrift handles the EVA, this seams like a very good way of doing it. Arma 3 also have a good transition from sitting to walking mechanics.

However there are still not a completely seamless tradition happening in any of the games or sims I've checked out.

Anyone know if this has been solved by anyone?

[video=youtube;15_zAi25aCs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15_zAi25aCs[/video]

[video=youtube;KxMpadZIMQQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxMpadZIMQQ[/video]

shadragon · May 11, 2016

I suspect it will be a fade-to-black and then reappear behind your seat. Why make it complicated?

Soda Popinski · May 11, 2016

shadragon said:
I suspect it will be a fade-to-black and then reappear behind your seat. Why make it complicated?

Might have to get complicated if they make Room Scale or standing a thing. It will need to sync with you getting out of your real chair.

[HJ]-RedRaven · May 12, 2016

I imagine it will come with time.

There's no technical reason why the HMD viewpoint cannot be linked to a 'bone' in the in-game character avatar's head mesh.

Then when you move around in your seat, your in-game head moves about, and possibly your chest/shoulders etc. If you got up, it would pass a logical upper limit on 'sitting head height' and trigger the getting up animation ie transition to a walking pose. Same can be used to move to a crouch (if away from a seat) or sitting pose again (if close to a seat).

In effect, the head motion drags the rest of the body around (except you rig the rest of the body to move with the head)

Just depends on whether FD will spend the effort rigging the pilot mesh. Its expensive to get right.

Zephyriel · May 12, 2016

I really don't think room VR will be a thing. You'll probably press a button or select an option in a menu, and your character will stand up, then you can move around with a controller.

Room VR seems very complicated for something that will be used by a niche within a niche of players, and implementing it would probably need to change the game for everyone.

CylonSurfer · May 12, 2016

Zephyriel said:
I really don't think room VR will be a thing. You'll probably press a button or select an option in a menu, and your character will stand up, then you can move around with a controller.

Room VR seems very complicated for something that will be used by a niche within a niche of players, and implementing it would probably need to change the game for everyone.

I hope to see exactly that and believe its the most balanced solution for both VR and non VR players as we coexist in the same universe. Non VR players don't want to see CMDR's randomly teleporting around locations, it would spoil their immersion as much as our own. Maybe an option of a first person view with a rendered helmet with a HUD and optional ratchet turning (providing it wasn't noticeable to other players) could be provided for those of us with a more fragile stomach.

As others have said, I imagine a fade to black (ala the SRV) then being stood behind the pilots seat. If the pilots body is not rendered while in this mode you could room scale to your rooms boundaries then use pad based locomotion for anything beyond that. If the body is rendered then I guess it would be pad based locomotion all the way with optional comfort modes.

As much as people want room scale I don't think Elite is really the game for it (outside of what we can already do with room scale in Elite). It would impact negatively on the non VR player base and should be reserved for VR only games and experiences.

lysan · May 12, 2016

Zephyriel said:
I really don't think room VR will be a thing. You'll probably press a button or select an option in a menu, and your character will stand up, then you can move around with a controller.

Room VR seems very complicated for something that will be used by a niche within a niche of players, and implementing it would probably need to change the game for everyone.

I agree, there will be small but efficient transitions from sitting to walking and visa versa. Getting in the SRV, getting out. When you go from one medium to another there will be a transition animation. However it must be short, I don't like those long animations where you climbing up ladders and enters cockpit. The climbing up ladders should be one mechanics, then enter the cockpit another. A small icon on the screen should be enough to inform the player that the mechanic is ready for activation, like enter the cockpit, or climb ladder.

vic · May 12, 2016

moving around a room in VR using controller is not natural at all and causes discomfort so I don't think that'll ever catch people besides the initial wow novelty. Also, moving from one room to another- how will that ever be handled (besides the obvious teleportation which kinda sucks)?

Soda Popinski · May 12, 2016

vic said:
moving around a room in VR using controller is not natural at all and causes discomfort so I don't think that'll ever catch people besides the initial wow novelty. Also, moving from one room to another- how will that ever be handled (besides the obvious teleportation which kinda sucks)?

Moving around a room in an FPS watching on a monitor with a controller isn't really natural either. I know plenty of people who aren't gamers or aren't FPS gamers who get motion sick. I think it's something people can get use to, and may eventually become the norm. At first I couldn't drive more than 10 minutes in the SRV in VR, but now I can. Before I couldn't use controller based motion in "Spell Fighter" opting for the teleportation mechanic. Now I can.

vic · May 12, 2016

Soda Popinski said:
Moving around a room in an FPS watching on a monitor with a controller isn't really natural either. I know plenty of people who aren't gamers or aren't FPS gamers who get motion sick. I think it's something people can get use to, and may eventually become the norm. At first I couldn't drive more than 10 minutes in the SRV in VR, but now I can. Before I couldn't use controller based motion in "Spell Fighter" opting for the teleportation mechanic. Now I can.

In VR movements MUST be natural because your physical body/eyes is enveloped completely with no reference to something stable whereas on flat monitor, even though it is also not natural, your brain is not as easily fooled/absorbed/immersed, hence not as affected by balance/orientation.

Soda Popinski · May 12, 2016

vic said:
In VR movements MUST be natural because your physical body/eyes is enveloped completely with no reference to something stable whereas on flat monitor, even though it is also not natural, your brain is not as easily fooled/absorbed/immersed, hence not as affected by balance/orientation.

Well before I couldn't handle controller based movement, but after playing enough Spell Fighter and Windlands, I'm good. Now it feels natural. We can adapt.

who? · May 12, 2016

vic said:
moving around a room in VR using controller is not natural at all and causes discomfort so I don't think that'll ever catch people besides the initial wow novelty. Also, moving from one room to another- how will that ever be handled (besides the obvious teleportation which kinda sucks)?

I think this is a real challenge. Being a seated ship/SRV pilot is perfect for VR, but there's no easy way to simulate walking/running in VR.

Then again, I was thinking the stations would be too big to navigate on foot anyway, maybe they'll give us high-speed Segways or jet boots?

That way the "moving without moving my legs" dynamic works a liiitle better.

Slopey · May 13, 2016

The best solution will be teleportation via a point and click method (Vanishing Realms style if you have the Vive).

Nobody has a room big enough to walk from one end to the other in a Cobra Mk III in true room scale, let alone into a station, and joypad movement will be nausea inducing. Teleportation (shoot the floor to move to that spot) is the best option so far for VR movement currently beyond travelator stuff like the Omni.

CylonSurfer · May 13, 2016

Slopey said:
The best solution will be teleportation via a point and click method (Vanishing Realms style if you have the Vive).

Nobody has a room big enough to walk from one end to the other in a Cobra Mk III in true room scale, let alone into a station, and joypad movement will be nausea inducing. Teleportation (shoot the floor to move to that spot) is the best option so far for VR movement currently beyond travelator stuff like the Omni.

No thank you. Teleportation is immersion breaking enough for VR players (particularly in simulators) and even more so for the non VR players who would be forced to see that mess. Teleportation is not the answer to locomotion in VR (even more so in a mixed VR / non-VR game), its a lazy quick fix...a band aid to tie these companies over until the VR user base hits critical mass and they no longer have to care about it. VR games like Adr1ft, Windlands, Tecnolust, POLLEN and FATED all work fine with pad based locomotion and additional comfort modes for those unfortunate enough to need them. That is what I hope to see here also and fairest solution for both VR and non-VR players.

Considering we're getting ship boarding at some point, teleportation of any kind would seriously screw that up wouldn't it.... "ah there you are CMDR, oh, where did you go. He vanished - Damn - hes behind me!"

For many people teleportation is not the best solution to VR movement as it is totally off putting and disappointing to see implemented as anything other than an optional locomotion method for our more sensitive VR brothers and sisters. I really wouldn't want to put Elite on my VR 'black list' for using teleportation... I really wouldn't.

Soda Popinski said:
Well before I couldn't handle controller based movement, but after playing enough Spell Fighter and Windlands, I'm good. Now it feels natural. We can adapt.

Over time I think this will be the case for 95% or more of the VR user base out there. Only time will tell.

Soda Popinski · May 13, 2016

CylonSurfer said:
No thank you. Teleportation is immersion breaking enough for VR players (particularly in simulators) and even more so for the non VR players who would be forced to see that mess.

Spell Fighter gives you the option of "teleporting" - what happens is you point where you want to go, then you see a capsule shaped volume move at your own movement speed towards where you pointed to. When it gets there, you teleport to the spot. In a multiplayer game, someone else would simply see your 3rd person model instead of the capsule, so it wouldn't be jarring. It also takes care of the instant movement issue.

I think I've seen some movement modes people have tried where you click to teleport, then you pop into 3rd person and watch your avatar go to that spot.

A really interesting movement mode I recently saw was where you swing your arms (with motion controllers), which moves your avatar forward like pad based. They claim the arm movements eliminate motion sickness.

Retrograde · May 14, 2016

I don't follow VR enough to know much about movement, but it seems to me that only one hand controller is needed when getting up (to point your gun or interact with stuff). So how about strapping the other controller to your thigh? It could be used to register walking (stepping in place) for forward movement as well as crouching. Would that not solve the nausea problem?