Walking through Concourse in true VR

[MoodBear]

Sorry, been gone for 1.5 years and hope I'm not beating a dead horse. Well, okay, probably am, but it is good exercise.

I was using free camera through the star port concourse, in full true VR, with all graphics at maximum, drifting in shops, going to high windows, browsing the bar, and it was all VR, smooth as silk, no performance issue (do have high specs), was very nice. I turn off free camera and I'm back to my pilot height with that silly gray mat border covering a lot of my wider vision. I don't understand why this gray matting is still around? It is kind of silly. There is no need for performance concerns in my case. The default foot UI is fine, the use of controller is fine, so why must I have limited vision due to this horrible gray matt idea? Concern about performance? Make it an option.

I can't believe this thing is still around after all this time. Nothing else has to change, I can accept the UI and no head tracking for aiming. Maybe this was done to make things more fair in FPS? But why is it there in the star base concourse and hangar? Sure, I go to free camera to zoom around the exterior of my ship and enjoy the view, but my commander has this disability that annoys for no reason at all! At least as much as I can figure.

I just got a feeling it is there to advertise to me that VR is not supported for foot. An ongoing advertisement I can't get out of my face. How hard would this really be?

 

[Arioch]

How hard would this really be?

From what I’ve read from various Devs of other VR games: surprisingly hard

The on-foot UI seems to be a common problem and I could see this being an issue in VREDO - and the edge-of-helmet distorted reflections might look odd just floating in front of our view. A “head-gun” implementation would probably involve the least work (and would be something I’d be perfectly happy with after spending many hours in the CP2077 mod) but isn’t something FDev have indicated they’d do - “we do strongly believe that VR should only be enabled for on foot gameplay when we have an experience that truly matches the same quality bar that we set for cockpits” - and as that statement is 2.5 years old, I’ve given up holding my breath for an announcement

 

[thistle]

It could be done.

It would be a not inconsequential amount of work to do, and get right.

They have decided not to.

 

[777Driver]

I just got a feeling it is there to advertise to me that VR is not supported for foot.

It is exactly that.

 

[777Driver]

It could be done.

It would be a not inconsequential amount of work to do, and get right.

They have decided not to.

Essentially they are saying they won't do it unless they can achieve something similar to Lone Echo, or a true VR fps implementation.

 

[thistle]

Well that certainly would be a lot of dev time, but even implementing the much requested "simple" first person VR view people have asked for would require some dev time, and I just think they don't want to spend the time to do it.

 

[MoodBear]

From what I’ve read from various Devs of other VR games: surprisingly hard

That has really nothing to do with the issue I'm raising. Free camera shows us what we would see if there was no gray matt.

You have stereoscopic view with foot, meaning VR is working on foot right now. They just cropped the VR view. That is all. Remove the gray cropping they "added", your done! That is not hard. The VR is already there. They didn't disable VR for foot, they just cropped the VR view, while the free camera is not (thank goodness). We VR using folks are not looking at a "flat screen view", we are looking at a cropped VR view.

This should be simple to do. The most work would be adding an option to turn off/on for those who want to squeeze more FPS in VR foot.

But I'm wasting typing time here. After almost two years of Odyssey and this ugly "solution" that is still sticking around will probably never be addressed. It is what it is, I'll avoid foot as much as I can and just use it to visit the bar to drink my VR sorrows away.

 

[Arioch]

That has really nothing to do with the issue I'm raising. Free camera shows us what we would see if there was no gray matt.

You have stereoscopic view with foot, meaning VR is working on foot right now. They just cropped the VR view. That is all. Remove the gray cropping they "added", you’re done! That is not hard. The VR is already there. They didn't disable VR for foot, they just cropped the VR view, while the free camera is not (thank goodness). We VR using folks are not looking at a "flat screen view", we are looking at a cropped VR view.

This should be simple to do. The most work would be adding an option to turn off/on for those who want to squeeze more FPS in VR foot.

But I'm wasting typing time here. After almost two years of Odyssey and this ugly "solution" that is still sticking around will probably never be addressed. It is what it is, I'll avoid foot as much as I can and just use it to visit the bar to drink my VR sorrows away.

I disagree that full on-foot VR would be just a case of uncropping our current view or that it should be simple to do; I’m not a programmer and have no knowledge of the Cobra Engine so I try to hold off on saying how difficult/easy VR things are, but it looks to me like the virtual flatscreen is using something similar to the monitor mirror view - adapting the separate full-VR camera suite would require UI and interaction code which can involve a surprising amount of work from what I’ve read from other projects.

For what it’s worth, the highest thumbed thread in the Suggestion forum is this:

Allow the VR '2D screen' to be disabled?

Hello lovely devs! This suggestion is based on some major assumptions, but it would be great if it were possible. Initial Assumptions: That the stereoscopic render used for ships & SRVs in EDO functions in Legs mode. That the 2D screen mode for Legs can be set to toggle on or off...

forums.frontier.co.uk

 

[jojon]

Yes, no cropping -- it is the very same monoscopic view that would otherwise go to a monitor, screen-space UI elements and -effects and all, shown on a virtual 2D cinema screen that floats in a grey void volume.

If one only increased its FOV, and locked the virtual screen to one's head rotation, it would still lack stereo depth, which takes a second camera, and spatialised overlays.

EDIT: I do happen to think that making it possible to play with stereo vision and headlook, but otherwise exactly as on a monitor, aiming and moving with head-and-mouse and keyboard, whilst taking a fair bit of planning and work, wouldn't be nearly as complicated as many would have it, but ho-hum...

 

[Arioch]

Yes, no cropping -- it is the very same monoscopic view that would otherwise go to a monitor, screen-space UI elements and -effects and all, shown on a virtual 2D cinema screen that floats in a grey void volume.

If one only increased its FOV, and locked the virtual screen to one's head rotation, it would still lack stereo depth, which takes a second camera, and spatialised overlays.

EDIT: I do happen to think that making it possible to play with stereo vision and headlook, but otherwise exactly as on a monitor, aiming and moving with head-and-mouse and keyboard, whilst taking a fair bit of planning and work, wouldn't be nearly as complicated as many would have it, but ho-hum...

I’ve attempted (with limited success) to achieve this with Virtual Desktop and head tracking software, but unfortunately I have the wrong VR hardware for it to work

Getting a basic VR implementation possibly wouldn’t entail masses of work (several modders have successfully done it for various games) but smooth-turn locomotion is instant nausea for many players which I would imagine is something FDev wants to avoid. I’d be all for it though

 

[Bravo17]

You sure that you don't have your helmet on indoors?

Maybe a screenshot to show what you mean by the "Grey Matting".

 

[MoodBear]

I disagree that full on-foot VR would be just a case of uncropping our current view or that it should be simple to do; I’m not a programmer and have no knowledge of the Cobra Engine so I try to hold off on saying how difficult/easy VR things are, but it looks to me like the virtual flatscreen is using something similar to the monitor mirror view - adapting the separate full-VR camera suite would require UI and interaction code which can involve a surprising amount of work from what I’ve read from other projects.

I must disagree with our having a "virtual flat screen". With max graphics settings, I noticed no difference in VR from cropped to floating camera, except for cropping limiting my VR view to "simulate" an apparent flat screen look. Must be my eyes, because I see no VR mirroring look at all. The cheap cropping is fooling folks, I suspect.

But I could be wrong, as mostly am. Whatever, nothing will be done about it I expect.

 

[MoodBear]

You sure that you don't have your helmet on indoors?

That was actually funny. I enjoyed it. I don't think a screen shot is necessary. You know what I'm talking about if you use VR. You just disembark anywhere and welcome to gray land.

 

[Arioch]

I must disagree with our having a "virtual flat screen". With max graphics settings, I noticed no difference in VR from cropped to floating camera, except for cropping limiting my VR view to "simulate" an apparent flat screen look. Must be my eyes, because I see no VR mirroring look at all. The cheap cropping is fooling folks, I suspect.

But I could be wrong, as mostly am. Whatever, nothing will be done about it I expect.

The virtual flatscreen is a monoscopic single-eye view rendered at a set distance from our eyes (it is impossible to move closer to the screen by physically moving). It’s as if a single-eye view from our HMD normally mirrored to our monitors is being rendered to the virtual flatscreen.

The camera suite is full stereoscopic VR and looks completely different to my eyes, with depth perception and 6 DoF.

 

[MoodBear]

The virtual flatscreen is a monoscopic single-eye view rendered at a set distance from our eyes (it is impossible to move closer to the screen by physically moving). It’s as if a single-eye view from our HMD normally mirrored to our monitors is being rendered to the virtual flatscreen.

The camera suite is full stereoscopic VR and looks completely different to my eyes, with depth perception and 6 DoF.

Yep, definitely more than just cropping, as you point out, they locked head movement out so only controller can modify the view. See your point. So there was more than cropping involved. Way too much effort to "fix VR view to that of simulated flat screen". Again, bazar.

 

[jojon]

I’ve attempted (with limited success) to achieve this with Virtual Desktop and head tracking software, but unfortunately I have the wrong VR hardware for it to work

Getting a basic VR implementation possibly wouldn’t entail masses of work (several modders have successfully done it for various games) but smooth-turn locomotion is instant nausea for many players which I would imagine is something FDev wants to avoid. I’d be all for it though

Modders recently made Half Life Alyx playable all the way through, without VR.

I have not tried it, but given how Valve went out of their way to avoid making the game unpleasant for a VR beginner (building for teleportation first, etc), I can not but imagine it must be a pretty boring experience on-screen, after the previous halflife games; More of a shooting gallery; Less mobile; With relatively few enemies at a time, whose tactics comprise walking slowly toward you, in smaller, more confined areas -- If you can zip around these at traditional superhuman HL speeds, and 360° instant point-and-click them to death, and jump properly, that must take quite a bit out of the challenge, and if any of those were to be made limited, in order to maintain the challenge, those limitations must make the game feel sluggish, and... well, plain boring.

Meanwhile, HL2 and both its following "episodes" can now be played in VR, with hand aiming, at traditional speeds, without any of the same sorts of tradeoffs... :7


More on topic, I find the notion hilarious, that FDev would be too "lazy" to give Elite on-foot head-look, but at the same time not do the virtual 2D screen the obvious, simple way, but contrive some sort of active mask, where everything is in fact rendered, but then blotted out by a matte plate that morphs to simulates the effect of your looking around, counteracts headlook on the game camera's turning, so that it looks static, even though it is not, and adds the UI to this, so that it looks 2D.

 

[MoodBear]

More on topic, I find the notion hilarious, that FDev would be too "lazy" to give Elite on-foot head-look, but at the same time not do the virtual 2D screen the obvious, simple way, but contrive some sort of active mask, where everything is in fact rendered, but then blotted out by a matte plate that morphs to simulates the effect of your looking around, counteracts headlook on the game camera's turning, so that it looks static, even though it is not, and adds the UI to this, so that it looks 2D.

Whatever they did, for VR folks, it is not satisfactory. But I'm sure that is of no concern.

But I continue to sacrifice my 8-bit Atari game cartridges to my FDev altar in hopes that they will "catch up".

Still, ED Odyssey is a joy to play regardless, even in VR. I really still have high hopes for this games progression in the future. It is still the best use of my VR, cockpit, and HOTAS.