Was that a bug or...?

RaymontP · Oct 19, 2017

Today I experienced something very heartbreaking :

As I had fun with my newly acquiered Anaconda, I noticed something troubling in Hi Res : my turret dont immediately stop firing when my target's dead or when I swipe ship to find a new wanted.
Normally, I change fire group to a Kill and Data Scanner right away to avoid some...delicate accident and I search for target.
But it didn't worked like that here...

Problem is when I killed a FDL from a bit of distance, by the time my Pulse laser turret go back to it's position, it scratched something : a Viper ? and flagged me Wanted for it and guess what happen to a mass locked Conda VS 6 security ship (with a FSD disabling rocket) ? Answer : Nothing good !
It actually happenned a second time before : A Python interposing less than a second to my FDL and got me Wanted, I feel that both were actually shieldless (Viper and Python) but a FDL can boost away so minor problem.

You think it can be called a bug ? NPC aren't really safe driver those time (and they blame you for it)...

Quester91 · Oct 19, 2017

"Working as intended", "Don't use turrets on a FDL", "Git gud" answers are coming.

Vasco Sapien · Oct 19, 2017

turrets need a new setting.

Hold to fire.

Falcon_D · Oct 19, 2017

I noticed that NPC ships suddenly swarm you trying to get a scan on you. Even when you're in the middle of combat with some other craft. Then suddenly some NPC out of nowhere buzzes you right between you and your target and he gets tagged before you can release the fire button. Then you become wanted.

I don't fly with turrets but this just happened to me today. I've noticed this swarming thing has been happening a lot since 2.4.0.1. Most times I try to hold fire but it can get dicey when your target is shooting at you and you have to be careful not to accidentally hit some other idiot NPC trying to scan you.

IndigoWyrd · Oct 19, 2017

Two things that are badly needed:

1. Hold Fire
2. Reload

There's absolutely nothing like getting to that lull in a high intensity conflict zone, where you've blown up all the ships of the opposing faction and you're waiting for the next wave to spawn, only to have 3 rounds in one multicannon, 12 rounds in another, and 1 round in the last. Hello? Reload?

It takes longer for the multicannons to spin up than it does to fire off those rounds, which results in an angry enemy ship while your guns are reloading.

And yes, Hold Fire would be a blessing too - nothing like watching a ship erupting with internal explosions working their way to the outside, while your guns continue to pound that 0% hull like they're trying to reach -1%

I've learned to simply unlock my target to conserve ammo, but still... or worse of all...

You're out bounty hunting, turn loose a fighter, some other poor commander isn't paying attention, tags your fighter a few times, and your turrets lock on and start ripping them a new one while they struggle to get off a "Sorry! Hold your fire!" message. I don't make a habit of firing on other humans, and yes, it's easy enough to stow weapons to make them stop, but it would be better if there was a simple "Hold Fire" function that didn't require a menu dive to get to, disengaging targeting (not so useful when in Fire at Will, whoever Will is) or when you're focused on your own fight and the poor fellow getting pounded isn't being noticed.

Falcon_D said:
I noticed that NPC ships suddenly swarm you trying to get a scan on you. Even when you're in the middle of combat with some other craft. Then suddenly some NPC out of nowhere buzzes you right between you and your target and he gets tagged before you can release the fire button. Then you become wanted.

I don't fly with turrets but this just happened to me today. I've noticed this swarming thing has been happening a lot since 2.4.0.1. Most times I try to hold fire but it can get dicey when your target is shooting at you and you have to be careful not to accidentally hit some other idiot NPC trying to scan you.

Use other NPC's as cover.

I've started a few fights between NPC's making one shoot something they didn't want to, and I've used this same method to rid rings of unwanted miners who simply won't go away otherwise.

_trent_ · Oct 19, 2017

I didn't know you could become wanted from your turrets hitting clean/unscanned targets, as I've seen my turrets hit ships a lot of times without me getting a bounty.

I haven't been using my ships with turrets much lately. In recent weeks I've been practicing quite a bit with fixed weapons on my ships just for a bit of a change.

RaymontP · Oct 19, 2017

Usually, it don't.
But I suspect that hitting a ship when they shield are recharging charge you directly as an assault even when damage are minimal (it s a class 2 Pulse that fire...).

turrets need a new setting.

Hold to fire.

It's not even there : if turret stopped firing BEFORE tracking, the problem would not exist...or at the discretion of a NPC going right to it.

I m left with no rebuy and it's out of question that I continue to drive my Anaconda with 400,000 CR...
'Want to try the support considering the problem happen dispite being cautious (and NPC not being forgetfull of a lost bullet).

Dale Emasiri · Oct 19, 2017

IndigoWyrd said:
Two things that are badly needed:

1. Hold Fire
2. Reload

There's absolutely nothing like getting to that lull in a high intensity conflict zone, where you've blown up all the ships of the opposing faction and you're waiting for the next wave to spawn, only to have 3 rounds in one multicannon, 12 rounds in another, and 1 round in the last. Hello? Reload?

It takes longer for the multicannons to spin up than it does to fire off those rounds, which results in an angry enemy ship while your guns are reloading.

And yes, Hold Fire would be a blessing too - nothing like watching a ship erupting with internal explosions working their way to the outside, while your guns continue to pound that 0% hull like they're trying to reach -1%

When they're down, kick them again. Repeatedly. Just to waste ammo. Isn't that what everyone does!?

More seriously, though, it's noted. I'm sure it's been forwarded to the designers already, but I'll just do it again for safe measure.

Falcon_D · Oct 19, 2017

IndigoWyrd said:
Two things that are badly needed:

1. Hold Fire
2. Reload

There's absolutely nothing like getting to that lull in a high intensity conflict zone, where you've blown up all the ships of the opposing faction and you're waiting for the next wave to spawn, only to have 3 rounds in one multicannon, 12 rounds in another, and 1 round in the last. Hello? Reload?

It takes longer for the multicannons to spin up than it does to fire off those rounds, which results in an angry enemy ship while your guns are reloading.

And yes, Hold Fire would be a blessing too - nothing like watching a ship erupting with internal explosions working their way to the outside, while your guns continue to pound that 0% hull like they're trying to reach -1%

I've learned to simply unlock my target to conserve ammo, but still... or worse of all...

You're out bounty hunting, turn loose a fighter, some other poor commander isn't paying attention, tags your fighter a few times, and your turrets lock on and start ripping them a new one while they struggle to get off a "Sorry! Hold your fire!" message. I don't make a habit of firing on other humans, and yes, it's easy enough to stow weapons to make them stop, but it would be better if there was a simple "Hold Fire" function that didn't require a menu dive to get to, disengaging targeting (not so useful when in Fire at Will, whoever Will is) or when you're focused on your own fight and the poor fellow getting pounded isn't being noticed.

Use other NPC's as cover.

I've started a few fights between NPC's making one shoot something they didn't want to, and I've used this same method to rid rings of unwanted miners who simply won't go away otherwise.

Happened a couple of times when the NPC I was fighting accidentally shot another NPC that flew in between us trying to scan me. But I don't use NPCs as cover. Probably time I did.

sollisb · Oct 19, 2017

It's been happening since they introduced the 'Crazy NPC AI' mechanic in 2.4. 3 weeks later after multiple reports it's still not fixed/reverted to what it was.

And, there is another sting in the tail. When you do get the wanted, and you have a SLF out, the SLF will actively hunt and kill the the NPC, which you may or may not know about.

This evening I saw wanted and thought, 400cr meh.. then checked the trans tab and saw Murder Death Kill bounty. Not nice when you're in a 40m rebuy cutter..

yolomcbobbinz · Oct 19, 2017

In my experience ships are actually quite lenient only time i got wanted from an accident was when my target would chaff and I unselect and when I reselect him, I target the wrong ship and not realize

babelfisch · Oct 19, 2017

Dale Emasiri said:
When they're down, kick them again. Repeatedly. Just to waste ammo. Isn't that what everyone does!?

More seriously, though, it's noted. I'm sure it's been forwarded to the designers already, but I'll just do it again for safe measure.

We are asking for a reload button since 2014 (or longer), I am sure they are aware of it...
But thanks

Dale Emasiri · Oct 19, 2017

babelfisch said:
We are asking for a reload button since 2014 (or longer), I am sure they are aware of it...

Indeed, but TheList™ gets very long over the years, and now's the time to poke that bear with the improvements and such.

babelfisch · Oct 19, 2017

Dale Emasiri said:
Indeed, but TheList™ gets very long over the years, and now's the time to poke that bear with the improvements and such.

I misread that as "the beard", which would either be a very long beard or Michael Brookes or both. Anyway, feel free to poke him really hard!

Bunkerkind Anni · Oct 19, 2017

if i could be bothered to search for it, i would link it,
but in the last topic about "turret aggroed target" there was a DEV comment about how that should not be possible

Falcon_D · Oct 19, 2017

Dale Emasiri said:
Indeed, but TheList™ gets very long over the years, and now's the time to poke that bear with the improvements and such.

Thank you.
I would really love to reload my MCs without having to use up all the rounds first.
The auto-loader is great. But at least give us the ability to reload between combat rounds without expanding ammo.

CMDR Dreamstate · Oct 19, 2017

Vasco Sapien said:
turrets need a new setting.

Hold to fire.

THIS!

Pumabear8 · Oct 19, 2017

RaymontP said:
Today I experienced something very heartbreaking :

As I had fun with my newly acquiered Anaconda, I noticed something troubling in Hi Res : my turret dont immediately stop firing when my target's dead or when I swipe ship to find a new wanted.
Normally, I change fire group to a Kill and Data Scanner right away to avoid some...delicate accident and I search for target.
But it didn't worked like that here...

Problem is when I killed a FDL from a bit of distance, by the time my Pulse laser turret go back to it's position, it scratched something : a Viper ? and flagged me Wanted for it and guess what happen to a mass locked Conda VS 6 security ship (with a FSD disabling rocket) ? Answer : Nothing good !
It actually happenned a second time before : A Python interposing less than a second to my FDL and got me Wanted, I feel that both were actually shieldless (Viper and Python) but a FDL can boost away so minor problem.

You think it can be called a bug ? NPC aren't really safe driver those time (and they blame you for it)...

In addition to this, I've noted 2A burst lasers I have on my Conda won't stop firing once started on a targeted ship after I've released the trigger, the only way it stops, either the ship is destroyed, I unlock target, or I deactivate them, it's a bit of a nuisance as I send my hired crew to do the finishing kills, I want them to have the kill, but my lasers end up finishing the job.

RaymontP · Oct 19, 2017

As I stated earlier, it also happened with the gimballed beam of my FDL : a Python, with recharging shield, interposed between my target and me and even a second scratch was enought to charge me for assault.
...And it was the guy who was attacked by my wanted target (a Dropship, it s always a Dropship ) !
I believe that a change in NPC behavior made them intolerate to any accidental fire in some case (Hull damage).

...So I want to ask a dumb question but...where can I make a ticket for a rebuy cancel (since it s happening out of my will...) if possible ?
Report a bug ? Technical support ?

RaymontP · Oct 21, 2017

So I found a way to use turret without being in constant fear of lost fire : Fire Group !
Funy thing, when they don't stop whe target is killed, they immediately stop when you switch fire group witch goes well with AI ship capable of exploding 3-5 times before dying, giving you enought time to switch to safe condition.

Still salty about the 5M loss, but Tien Mu has nice Res site so I manage to go back pretty quick !