Weapons and Modules for PVP - what to consider?

[Starman 1966]

Hi CMDRs,

most probabely I'll give PVP a try in the next weeks and start with a medium sized ship to keep rebuy costs limited. I've access to all engineers and already fitted my PVE Corvette and Python with several specialties such as corrosive shell MCs and feedback cascade railguns. Both seem to be very effective to shorten fights with other ships. Currently I would plan a ship like this:

- Reactive surface composite hull with G5 thermal resistance
- Armoured powerplant as I consider not to use shield cell banks due to the feedback cascade railgun threat
- With the lack of shield cell banks would you use a prismatic shield generator? Or does such a shield generator use too much energy for a non-overcharged power plant?
- Whatever shield generator used it will be thermal resistant paired with several resistant augmented and/or heavy duty shield boosters
- Are one or two point defences efficient against torpedoes or would you skip such point defences entirely? (cf. below)
- I'll add several heavy duty hull reinforcement packages and one or two module reinforcement packages

- Apart from corrosive shell MCs and feedback cascade railguns - would you recommend reverberating cascade torpedoes or is this a waste of firepower? (cf. above)
- What next weaponwise? Fixed efficient beam lasers for shield stripping or a combination of several railguns and/or plasma accelerators?
- Is at least one scrambled spectrum laser an useful addition? Or is thermal shock useful, too?
- Or something completely different such as a full multicannon loadout? If so, fixed or gimballed?

- If I've missed something else or in case you would do something completely different, please let me know.

Thanks a lot in advance

CMDR Starman 1966

 

[Herbrand]

My point of view from my - so far limited - experience:

-if your problem with Prismatics is the energy, go ahead and Overcharge that powerplant (as little as you can afford) - bigger shields trumps a bit more heat;
-Feedback Cascade Railgun affects SCB, not Power Plant;
-an ideal shield setup involves Reinforced Shield with 2x Thermal Resistant Boosters and the rest equally divided between Heavy Duty and Resistance Augmented;
-shield stripping is done via Overcharged (gimballed) Multicannon, as most people will have equalized resistances vs damage types anyway;
-I would not go for Scramble Spectrum as the fight is usually decided by who drops the shields first anyway;
-if your ship is fast enough just evade torpedoes when they are fired, otherwise have at least two Point Defences... or none if you don't want to cover this particular attack type;
-Long Range Plasma with Target Lock Breaker and Dispersal Field are very useful to reduce enemy DPS against you.

 

[Starman 1966]

-Feedback Cascade Railgun affects SCB, not Power Plant

I know, but one obviously tends to need an overcharged powerplant when using shield cell banks. So when not using them, why not increase the integrity of the PP instead?

 

[StiTch]

Start with the basics.

What ship do you plan to use, and how many credits do you plan to spend?

 

[Starman 1966]

The rebuy cost of my Corvette is a bit on the high end, so I would like to go with a FGS including a SLF. One small multicannon with corrosive and one small railgun with feedback cascade are a no-brainer, on the large hardpoint I would consider a plasma accelerator in first place. So what to do with the remaining four medium hardpoints?

Four railguns? Two more plasmas and two torpedo pylons? Or whatever....

Credits don't matter.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

Hi CMDRs,

most probabely I'll give PVP a try in the next weeks and start with a medium sized ship to keep rebuy costs limited. I've access to all engineers and already fitted my PVE Corvette and Python with several specialties such as corrosive shell MCs and feedback cascade railguns. Both seem to be very effective to shorten fights with other ships. Currently I would plan a ship like this:

- Reactive surface composite hull with G5 thermal resistance
- Armoured powerplant as I consider not to use shield cell banks due to the feedback cascade railgun threat
- With the lack of shield cell banks would you use a prismatic shield generator? Or does such a shield generator use too much energy for a non-overcharged power plant?
- Whatever shield generator used it will be thermal resistant paired with several resistant augmented and/or heavy duty shield boosters
- Are one or two point defences efficient against torpedoes or would you skip such point defences entirely? (cf. below)
- I'll add several heavy duty hull reinforcement packages and one or two module reinforcement packages

- Apart from corrosive shell MCs and feedback cascade railguns - would you recommend reverberating cascade torpedoes or is this a waste of firepower? (cf. above)
- What next weaponwise? Fixed efficient beam lasers for shield stripping or a combination of several railguns and/or plasma accelerators?
- Is at least one scrambled spectrum laser an useful addition? Or is thermal shock useful, too?
- Or something completely different such as a full multicannon loadout? If so, fixed or gimballed?

- If I've missed something else or in case you would do something completely different, please let me know.

Thanks a lot in advance

CMDR Starman 1966

Why a focus on thermal resistance?

 

[Starman 1966]

Why a focus on thermal resistance?

Thermal resistant on both reactive surface composite bulkheads and shield generator yields positive resistances across the board.

 

[StiTch]

The rebuy cost of my Corvette is a bit on the high end, so I would like to go with a FGS including a SLF. One small multicannon with corrosive and one small railgun with feedback cascade are a no-brainer, on the large hardpoint I would consider a plasma accelerator in first place. So what to do with the remaining four medium hardpoints?

Four railguns? Two more plasmas and two torpedo pylons? Or whatever....

Credits don't matter.

Here's something similar to what I use for PvP in a gunship, moulded a bit to your preferences so far: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fed...18RQ==.Aw18RQ==..EweloBhBGA2EoFMCGBzANokMK6A=

APA is an excellent choice for the C3 slot and lets you put bigger ships under pressure. Run your own desired effect. I've made the small fb rail a C2 imp hammer, as fb cascade is damage proportional - so the C2 rail is better - but also because it's good to have a long range hitscan weapon, and also because the C1 slots on top are poor for fixed weapon convergence. The C1 cannon is used to apply dispersal field, but I have it bound with the MCs, so I would only need three triggers bound. Everything else is gimballed MCs, as you need something handy at taking small ships out and during spells of chaff, the APA and rail maintain pressure. EDIT: I would strongly advise use of a single corrosive and pretty much everything auto-loader. Non-stop dakka dakka rules, and lots of the folk out there use balanced resistance anyway.

As for internals etc., the FGS is still plagued slightly by being a glass cannon, especially with a fighter on. Bi-weave is a necessity unless you want to run as a prismatic/SCB player. Just please, don't take a bi-weave build to winged PvP...in fact, don't take a FGS to winged PvP at all.

AFMU keeps modules alive and allows use of just one MRP. The HRPs and armour need serious modding to ensure the FGS has reasonable HP.

Resistant bi-weave shields, resistant boosters, two heat sinks for continued APA/rail use and thermal shock mitigation.

If you're more skilled with fixed weapons you may actually want to replace the APA with a fixed long-range beam, as the FGS cannot dictate range, but a C3 beam stinging for full damage at several km out is the next best thing.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

This depends very much on the ship you're flying and what you're intending to do with it.

Give me a ship, your credit balance, and your preferred weapons (basically just say if there are any that you can't use), and I'll build you something good.

 

[Starman 1966]

@StiTch: Sounds like a reasonable build, thank you. But as I have no access to PP weapons I would stick with stock PA and RG.

@Rinzler o7o7o7: I like the idea to start 1 vs 1 PVP as an anti-griefer in CG. And occasionally I've already teamed up with others in RES. As a ship I'm considering the FGS as it can use a SLF and its rebuy would be only 10% of my Corvette's rebuy. Weaponwise I'm used to rail guns, plasma accelerators and all kinds of lasers and multicannons. I didn't use cannons much as they don't do much damage on shields. I've heard about this reverb cascade torpedo thing, but once depleted the respective hardpoints do nothing more. Looking forward to your advice.

 

[Morbad]

- With the lack of shield cell banks would you use a prismatic shield generator? Or does such a shield generator use too much energy for a non-overcharged power plant?

If you don't have any SCBs, you can probably get away with the prismatic shield gen, even with an armored PP.

- Are one or two point defences efficient against torpedoes or would you skip such point defences entirely? (cf. below)

Omit the PDTs. It takes two PDTs forever to shoot down a torpedo. Best to just evade them.

would you recommend reverberating cascade torpedoes or is this a waste of firepower? (cf. above)

Waste of hardpoints, outside of specialized setups used for ambushing people or outside of a wing.

Most ships large enough for you to reliably land cascade torpedoes on are going to be packing a big thermal resistant shield gen with enough integrity to need 5-6 torpedoes to knock out. If you can land 6+ torpedoes you may drive your opponent off right there, but if not, you are stuck with at least three useless hardpoints.

What next weaponwise? Fixed efficient beam lasers for shield stripping or a combination of several railguns and/or plasma accelerators?

I love fixed beams, and they are a great counter to the crap loads of lockbreaker and dispersal field effects you'll encounter. However, they are still somewhat niche and are less efficient against most setups than other options. They often aren't any better at stripping shields than other weapons because of how common thermal resistance is.

There is a good reason why plasma is so prevalent.

Is at least one scrambled spectrum laser an useful addition? Or is thermal shock useful, too?

Scramble spectrum is handy once you get an opponent's shields down, but it's rarely a game changer.

Thermal shock can be useful against hot running ships, but thermal cascade is much more effective against anything with shields...most ships run too hot and don't have enough module integrity or heatsinks to stand up to thermal shock for long.

I know, but one obviously tends to need an overcharged powerplant when using shield cell banks.

I run an armored PP and can still power dual A7 SCBs on my Corvette. I'm not running prismatic shields though.

Why a focus on thermal resistance?

Thermal resistant mods on shields and reactive armor tends to result in the highest overall mix of resistances.

That said, I usually just go heavy duty/reinforced on bulkheads/HRPs with reactive. On ships that can mount more than a few HRPs the modest hit to thermal resistance is generally more than countered by the extra hull integrity.

This depends very much on the ship you're flying and what you're intending to do with it.

Always something to keep in mind.

 

[Starman 1966]

Thanks for this extensive reply. +1 So I'll skip both point defenses and torpedoes. But what is "thermal cascade" you're referring to? Did you mean thermal conduit? And I see you're relying on shield cell banks despite the feedback cascade meta? And I understand you right that you're not modding your reactive composite bulkheads with thermal resistance but with heavy duty only?

 

[Morbad]

But what is "thermal cascade" you're referring to? Did you mean thermal conduit?

Thermal cascade is a cannon and missile effect that dumps a fairly significant (apparently damage dependent) degree of heat into a target that has shields. The missile effect is pretty lack luster, but the cannon effect can be quite potent and the more prevalent setups (high power, shield focused, weak module integrity, and relatively few heatsinks) are generally quite poor against resisting this.

And I see you're relying on shield cell banks despite the feedback cascade meta?

Cascade rails are common, but I still encounter people that don't have them, can often keep even a large ship from being shut down by the effect in a 1v1 (especially against other large ships), and even at 10% (minimum) effectiveness they can still help enough to matter.

I do put rapid charge 1 on all of mine and use however many rolls I need (only cost one sulphur) to get a high recharge rate secondary with a minimal duration loss.

And I understand you right that you're not modding your reactive composite bulkheads with thermal resistance but with heavy duty only?

Heavy duty offers significantly more hull integrity. After HRPs (all heavy duty) the thermal resist on my large ships is only ~10% less than the other resistances. Weapons that do primarily thermic damage also tend to have lower penetration values and more damage fall off than kinetic ones, so maximizing resistance is less important here.

For smaller ships I'll often run thermal resist or light weight reactive as they have less room for HRPs and suffer more from the added mass...however, for large ships, I think heavy duty is usually the way to go.

 

[Starman 1966]

Thank you Sir, for this comprehensive overview and o7!

 

[HeavyGroovez]

Excellent technical advice from Morbad.

On a slight tangent if you are new to PvP some things you will no doubt learn along the way but are worth pointing out at the get go.

Your build(s) will evolve as you get more experience and encounter different scenarios. What is good for one brawl might be wholly unsuitable for another. Don't build too focused, try and keep it versatile.

Don't be too quick to discard a setup without putting it through its paces. Just because you lose a fight it doesn't mean that your technical setup is bad. You will make mistakes. Be prepared to recognise what you did wrong.