PvP What are good starter ships and good weapon loadouts?

[Morbad]

For clarity, do S rails have a shorter fire delay than M rails?

Yes.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I'm not saying its impossible to fire from both focused PA on viper, what i m implying is that its impossible to sustain DPS with them as well as under 100% heat, i m talking about Bi-weave viper that want to do other things in combat than shooting, and even if you only shoot, i m not sure its possible to fire with max possible fire rate with 4wep pips with them. Also you cant really get max use of better Tot than eff/sr/oc mods given this. And finally i dont think 2 rails and 2 focus PA are good weapon combo, we have 2 lr weapons with different shoot speed and DPE not sustained by our PD. btw... i fly DBS with 2sr PA, that have same PD and same distributor draw, problem is that poor DPE on high ToT weapons is crippling for them with weak distributor, but not so much on low ToT weapons.

Alright I run without shields so my base running heat is gonna be lower than yours. They're Pa's? Shoot, reposition, fire the rail, fire the Pa's, rinse and repeat, sitting in one spot, even in a small ship gets you mulched. The movement is what gives your distro time to fill up again. Not to mention C1 rails kick out next to no heat and eat barely any distro, you use them as a weapon as much as the Pa's. Higher shot speed or not, Pa's are burst damage. IE: Per shot. You're not shooting at max avalible firerate against most targets bar big ships so why would you worry about excessive heat generation?

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Alright I run without shields so my base running heat is gonna be lower than yours. They're Pa's? Shoot, reposition, fire the rail, fire the Pa's, rinse and repeat, sitting in one spot, even in a small ship gets you mulched. The movement is what gives your distro time to fill up again. Not to mention C1 rails kick out next to no heat and eat barely any distro, you use them as a weapon as much as the Pa's. Higher shot speed or not, Pa's are burst damage. IE: Per shot. You're not shooting at max avalible firerate against most targets bar big ships so why would you worry about excessive heat generation?

I just wonder what is purpose of this build, i use hotas, but i dont think plasma+rail is great combo to fight other small ships, and to beat reasonable pilot in medium pvp ship you need counter build, what i found funny is that rail(even sr) + plasma are probably best pve weapon loadouts, but its pvp forum. in small vs small ships fight i usually use plasma+something (gimbals) loadouts, most OP are double seekers but its almost like cheating. if somebody use mouse i would bet best viper lodout would be c2 rails supported with some other fixed weapon.

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

I just wonder what is purpose of this build, i use hotas, but i dont think plasma+rail is great combo to fight other small ships, and to beat reasonable pilot in medium pvp ship you need counter build, what i found funny is that rail(even sr) + plasma are probably best pve weapon loadouts, but its pvp forum. in small vs small ships fight i usually use plasma+something (gimbals) loadouts, most OP are double seekers but its almost like cheating. if somebody use mouse i would bet best viper lodout would be c2 rails supported with some other fixed weapon.

Wait wut?

This is the PvP forum. Pa's and Rails are the norm here.

Yeah I also use a HOTAS. You might struggle with Rails and Pa's but I enjoy them. I'm also a bit crap with rails, but not so much Pa's.
Counter building for specific opponents is a bad idea because you'll get utterly rinsed up unless you're up against that build you've specced to kill.

Rails and Pa's give you Feedback/SuperPen, Dispersal and TLB. Covering you from hull tanks, gimbals, shield tanks and to some degree missile spam. In PvP, regardless of ship untill you get to th bigbois, they are the most efficient things. Especially when you have limited hardpoints.

Gimbals don't net you the required ToT vs a small ship to be remotely useful because of the chaff/dispersal combo. Or at least not against anyone who can move and does'nt sit still all the time. Gimbal pulses with Phasing might be the exception vs FDLs here, but then you have to be A+ rated in evasion to make a significant dent in them before they kill you.

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

Wait wut?

This is the PvP forum. Pa's and Rails are the norm here.

Yeah I also use a HOTAS. You might struggle with Rails and Pa's but I enjoy them. I'm also a bit crap with rails, but not so much Pa's.
Counter building for specific opponents is a bad idea because you'll get utterly rinsed up unless you're up against that build you've specced to kill.

Rails and Pa's give you Feedback/SuperPen, Dispersal and TLB. Covering you from hull tanks, gimbals, shield tanks and to some degree missile spam. In PvP, regardless of ship untill you get to th bigbois, they are the most efficient things. Especially when you have limited hardpoints.

Gimbals don't net you the required ToT vs a small ship to be remotely useful because of the chaff/dispersal combo. Or at least not against anyone who can move and does'nt sit still all the time. Gimbal pulses with Phasing might be the exception vs FDLs here, but then you have to be A+ rated in evasion to make a significant dent in them before they kill you.

While I agree with you, I a will say that an evasive pilot in a small ship presents such genuine difficulty to a PAs/Rails loadout that gimballed MCs are sometimes appropriate.

From my vulture/courier I can sometimes draw with some of the better Ps4 pilots out there if they are in something like a vette or FAS. I hope to draw one day with you, Turnip!

However a 5x gimballed MC FdL will annihilate me in that build, yes even running chaff and dispersion. They need only wait me out, or better yet attack from short range during moments I'm vulnerable.

This is an extreme case. Rail and PAs are both are hugely effective in majority of cases. Just pointing out, it can be a subtle game. A few CMDRs have even leveraged fletchettets against well chosen targets.

This only applies to 1v1. In wing battles, rails, PA, etc are even more powerful.

Regardless - why complain? Adapt as best one can, and if that means waking away that's fine, and it if means PAs and rails so be it.

 

[Krash]

While I agree with you, I a will say that an evasive pilot in a small ship presents such genuine difficulty to a PAs/Rails loadout that gimballed MCs are sometimes appropriate.

From my vulture/courier I can sometimes draw with some of the better Ps4 pilots out there if they are in something like a vette or FAS. I hope to draw one day with you, Turnip!

However a 5x gimballed MC FdL will annihilate me in that build, yes even running chaff and dispersion. They need only wait me out, or better yet attack from short range during moments I'm vulnerable.

This is an extreme case. Rail and PAs are both are hugely effective in majority of cases. Just pointing out, it can be a subtle game. A few CMDRs have even leveraged fletchettets against well chosen targets.

This only applies to 1v1. In wing battles, rails, PA, etc are even more powerful.

Regardless - why complain? Adapt as best one can, and if that means waking away that's fine, and it if means PAs and rails so be it.

I've been experimenting with a shield tank (6300mj) vette with MC gimbals (overcharged) + pacifier (corrosive). When my opponent hits me with dispersal/chaff I let loose with a volley of frag shot. I'm enjoying this build profusely