What do you want to see in any PZ2?

[Birini]

This seems like a nice discussion topic, both because I'm sure everyone has ideas but also because there is probably some early development happening on the next stage of PZ. So, any ideas people have might be able to help start a conversation with the dev team, not unlike the amazing 25 most requested animals list has done. With that, the things I would personally like to see:

1) More focus on the animals. The management tasks of PZ are -- let's face not -- not the most compelling game play. Instead of the laser-like focus on breeding, and cleaning up trash, and animal sensitivity, and matching plants to their home regions, focus more on what's required to take care of zoo animals. Some examples: processing and storage facilities for food (as an extreme example, eucalyptus leaves for koala are a major investment), the water treatment requirements for a hippo are much different than the water treatment requirements for a giraffe, what's going on backstage to keep the animals happy and healthy? This seems to me to be a much more compelling management system than the current one.

2) Get into the zoo. It should be much more natural to explore your zoo from a visitor eye (or keeper eye) view. See it like a human walking through and enjoying the animals, rather than as God looking down on his minions. This can tie into (1) in that seeing the world from a keeper's viewpoint opens the opportunity to interact with your animals by feeding, washing, etc. Tangenting slightly, I think one of the goals of the game that everyone can agree hasn't fully worked is an emotional connection with the animals. This kind of interaction -- instead of just looking at them from on high and boxing up their corpses -- might lead down that road.

3) Take advantage of your community. To me the most obvious extension to the game is to make it easy to visit other people's zoos as a guest (again tying into the last point). Instead of having fake avatars come through the zoo, allow actual other players to walk through and experience it as a guest. There is conceivably a game-play loop in this where popular builders get some game reward for their work, but I don't have easy solutions to the problems it causes.

4) Rethink progression. Conservation Credits become pointless very quickly in the game and gloss over some potentially interesting 'levelling' mechanics. You can't simply buy giant pandas with conservation credits, you have to convince the Chinese government that your zoo is capable of raising them. Ditto dingos from Australia. Getting into the right networks gives your zoo access to unique animals. Instead of glossing over that with CC, build these things into the game.

What does everyone else want to see?

 

[NZFanatic]

I'm not too inerested in this becoming a zookeeping roleplaying game so I'd rather skip the whole "zookeeper mode".

I'd like to see more complex backstage management, though, yes. For example, if you want to breed tigers, you'll need two tiger habitats, one for the male, one for the female. It doesn't need to be super complex - move the male into the female's territory when you want them to breed, make sure you move him back before she gives birth or they'll fight.

I'd like to see keeper access to habitats improved for more complex designs. Many players like to build connecting bridges and tunnels going over paths, but the drawback here is that it usually means keepers can't access one side of a habitat. IRL there would be a way for this to work - whether the game allows us to add a second habitat gate or some other access point, I hope we can do something like this in the future.

One big thing I'd like is a proper nocturnal system. For example, giant anteaters are nocturnal. They can be put on display in regular habitats and often are, but much of the time it will be rare to see them because they'll be asleep in a burrow or shelter. It would be a neat management touch if you need to build a nocturnal house or habitat for certain species to get the most out of them.

I'd also like a more complex exhibit system. They can still be a box, or a variety of boxes I guess, but with some kind of hyper-zoom function which allows us to get in and decorate the thing ourselves. Choose a substrate, place hiding spots where we want them, choose plants, etc. If the hypothetical game can handle it, make the exhibit animals more real. They don't have to move around a lot, but actually having them move from point to point would be a good way to go.

I'd also like for a sequel to include aviaries and aviary animals in the base game. A new habitat system for building covered habitats would be the way to go, allowing us to use these habitats for any species, including birds.

Finally, more guest-animal interaction would be fun. For example, have the guests actually react to certain views of the animals. Seeing penguins through an underwater window is a completely different ballgame to seeing them on land. Put in certain encounters, like giraffe feeding, guided by educators. My local zoo has a really neat lion encounter where you drive into the habitat in a mesh-covered truck and the lions literally jump right on top. You end up with drool and fur on you. You can feel their breath. It's fantastic. Things like that would be awesome.

Lastly, more comprehensive animal navigation. Right now, the hitbox is determined by the animal's ability to turn on a 360 degree angle, which means they can't get through small gaps. This should be better - i.e. if an animal can turn 360 degrees after passing through a gap, then they should be able to pass through that gap.

 

[Doran]

Birds (preferably in current game)

 

[avietar]

This seems like a nice discussion topic, both because I'm sure everyone has ideas but also because there is probably some early development happening on the next stage of PZ. So, any ideas people have might be able to help start a conversation with the dev team, not unlike the amazing 25 most requested animals list has done. With that, the things I would personally like to see:

1) More focus on the animals. The management tasks of PZ are -- let's face not -- not the most compelling game play. Instead of the laser-like focus on breeding, and cleaning up trash, and animal sensitivity, and matching plants to their home regions, focus more on what's required to take care of zoo animals. Some examples: processing and storage facilities for food (as an extreme example, eucalyptus leaves for koala are a major investment), the water treatment requirements for a hippo are much different than the water treatment requirements for a giraffe, what's going on backstage to keep the animals happy and healthy? This seems to me to be a much more compelling management system than the current one.

2) Get into the zoo. It should be much more natural to explore your zoo from a visitor eye (or keeper eye) view. See it like a human walking through and enjoying the animals, rather than as God looking down on his minions. This can tie into (1) in that seeing the world from a keeper's viewpoint opens the opportunity to interact with your animals by feeding, washing, etc. Tangenting slightly, I think one of the goals of the game that everyone can agree hasn't fully worked is an emotional connection with the animals. This kind of interaction -- instead of just looking at them from on high and boxing up their corpses -- might lead down that road.

3) Take advantage of your community. To me the most obvious extension to the game is to make it easy to visit other people's zoos as a guest (again tying into the last point). Instead of having fake avatars come through the zoo, allow actual other players to walk through and experience it as a guest. There is conceivably a game-play loop in this where popular builders get some game reward for their work, but I don't have easy solutions to the problems it causes.

4) Rethink progression. Conservation Credits become pointless very quickly in the game and gloss over some potentially interesting 'levelling' mechanics. You can't simply buy giant pandas with conservation credits, you have to convince the Chinese government that your zoo is capable of raising them. Ditto dingos from Australia. Getting into the right networks gives your zoo access to unique animals. Instead of glossing over that with CC, build these things into the game.

What does everyone else want to see?

I love this thread and I love your points, especially 1, 2, and absolutely 4. Point 3 would be nice, but I don't know how possible it is, and it doesn't feel essential to me personally.

I will comment with my own ideas later!

 

[Bearcat9948]

Here is what I said in another thread about what I would like to see in future updates:

• Exhibit system overhaul with two new smaller sizes, the ability to have ceiling, floor and walls all set to null, 3D background added for the aquatic exhibit (as it's the only one missing)
• Climbing tweaks including brachiation
• Custom map selection screen with the ability to choose which map background you use, and which terrain palate you use, and also adding in 8-10 new map backgrounds based on irl locations that don't really have good playable maps currently (New Zealand, European side of the Mediterranean, Atacama desert etc)
• Emphasis on expanding enrichment items with new and old animals
• Aviary building and free flying birds
• Gift shop system for merchandise stores, seeing as we have a restaurant system for food shops

As far as animals I'd like to see, I would like if the following regions were fleshed out with exhibit animals, habitat animals and aviary birds/bats

• Himalayas
• Central America
• Middle East/North Africa
• Amazon River Basin
• Temperate North America
• Southwest deserts of North America
• Global coastlines
• Oceania and New Zealand

 

[sockeyejo]

1. Correct all bugs and errors that currently exist in the game.

2. Make the path system easier to use.

3. I like building on the grid but I wish it was easier to make domes and non-square buildings.

4. I get that exhibits are on looped animations and I'm fine with that but I wish they weren't restricted to cubes. I'd like to design our own exhibit spaces of any shape - size restrictions are fine: 4 meters is way to big for most anyway.

 

[peafowl]

I would like more of a keeper experience. I don't play the game anymore at all, it's just too much builder sim and no zoo sim

 

[Dylan Smith]

Animals having sex and monkeys swinging. I’d like to see zookeepers pulling along animals instead of putting them in a cardboard box to move them. I’d like them to have ‘entertainer’ shows walking around.

 

[XT]

I'm very much not interested in expanding the management in the way it currently stands - ie; most of the management, such as it is, is around guests. If the game is about zoos and their animals, the management focus should really be on the animals and zoos with any guest management an afterthought (instead of now, where animal management is an afterthought).

More realistic animal keeping needs:

• You can't keep tigers, leopards, (hippos??) and especially elephants, in mixed groups. So, if you want a breeding group, you'll need to have two facilities.
• More 'backstage' requirements - in this case, not simply backstage buildings but appropriate animal security. Example: current practice in many zoos for elephant care is hands off - keepers never come in unprotected contact with the animals and so you need various forms of protected (ie: gates/fences/barns etc) to work with them. Same for large predators.
• Higher barriers to breeding and raising young; welfare should have a huge impact on breeding ability and research around 'breeding: x type of animal' should be part of a research tree.
• Space requirements should also have a backstage requirement with different levels of 'security' requirements for different types of animals.
• Diseases and illness should be more challenging and expensive: perhaps different aspects are a research tree: 'prevention', 'treatment', 'diagnosis' - low level vets, no research illnesses can result in misdiagnoses/wrong treatment. When animals go to the vet or the quarantine, the sicker they are, the more expensive and longer the treatment is - and death is more likely.
• The inspector function should have some meaning; you can't get certain advance (ie: popular, highly endangered, or difficult to care for) animals until you reach a certain number of stars, and/or maintain a certain number of stars.

Change the whole research system to a tree with multiple possible paths that unlock various animals/items/displays etc. So, for example: you could follow a 'welfare' tree where you unlock better skills with disease, care and breeding. An 'entertainment' tree, where you get guest focused educators/displays/toys whatever. This could also expand the franchise concept; you can have zoos with different focus in your franchise and if you have a very sick animal, maybe you need to transfer it (with a cost) to your welfare related zoo?

More varied animal behaviors. Even in JW2 (or whatever, I've only played a couple of hours) when you click on an animal it gives you a pop-up that says something like 'looking for food' or 'panicked' or whatever. More behaviors around animals interacting with each other. Some expanded breeding behaviors. Maybe we dont' want zebras and wolves going at it but an expanded animation for the flamingo courtship would be beautiful.

'Decorative' animals: koi ponds, butterfly flocks, etc. They can still require care: you buy a 'group' or a 'puck' or something that represents the group that you need to place, it still requires keeper visits but can be put in an open area to create an effect of birds or bees or whatever.

Overhaul the exhibit system: varied sizes, more appropriate sizes. I'm okay with the animals in that circumstance being a loop, but I'd like a little more variety on the habitat; maybe the box starts out with nothing but substrate and a dish of water, and you need to follow a research tree to add items.

Aquaria; even if it's just simply aquatic exhibits (ie; fish tanks), that'd be very welcome.

 

[avietar]

I love this thread and I love your points, especially 1, 2, and absolutely 4. Point 3 would be nice, but I don't know how possible it is, and it doesn't feel essential to me personally.

I will comment with my own ideas later!

So in addition to Birini's points:

• More animal-focused management system
• Easy visitor / keeper viewpoint
• New progression (meeting certain thresholds to be able to keep specific species)

And in addition to these points from Bearcat:

• Custom map selection screen
• Exhibit system overhaul (smaller ánd larger exhibits)
• Climbing tweaks

I would also like to see:

1. A base roster that covers all of the world's continents and all biomes.
It doesn't need to be fleshed out, but you should be able to represent each part of the world with at least one animal. For example, a wallaby for Australia could be in the base game, which doesn't negate the need for an Oceania DLC. The base roster should have all the bases covered. However, I would keep many high-profile animals out of the base roster, and replace them with lesser-known, obscure, or really common zoo animals. These high-profile animals can be used to pad out DLCs. The base roster would therefore look very different to PZ1's base roster: it would be more varied, but contain fewer animal icons.

2. Varied DLC formats.
"Small" DLCs, released 4 times a year, would contain more animals than we have gotten so far in PZ1. In part that would be because most of the groundwork is already laid and existing animal models would only need touching up. DLCs would focus on specific areas (India, Oceania, Eurasia, South America, ...), biomes (Deserts, Rainforests, Aquatic, Arctic...), or animal groups (Antelopes, Reptiles, Canines, Marsupials, ...). Area DLCs provide animals + building pieces + foliage, Biome DLCs provide animals + foliage, Group DLCs provide only animals.
The iconic animals left out of the base roster would make a return in DLCs. For example, the India DLC could include:

Spoiler: India DLC roster example

Indian elephant, Indian rhino, Indian leopard, Gharial, Gaur, Lion-tailed macaque, Nilgai, Blackbuck, Axis deer, Grey langur, Dhole, Indian cobra. (11+1 animals)

"Large" DLCs would be released once per year and have an entirely new feature focus. For example:
Sky DLC: Birds with aviaries, bats, butterfly houses.
Water DLC: Marine animals, coral reefs, jellyfish, freshwater fish, water salinity plant.
DLC of the Past: Recently extinct animals, museums, fossils, genetic tools for breeding.

3. Animal individuality.
Extensive color and pattern variation. Not just slight hue saturation differences like we have in PZ1. Animals may be distinguishable if they are not related, and animals can be bred for a certain color. Animals can have color or pattern oddities, and also tusk variation and horn/antler variation, which helps distinguish the animals from each other. Additionally, you may see physical oddities/deformities/injuries caused by people when an animal has the origin 'illegal trade' or 'private collection' (brand mark, tagged ears, removed horns/antlers).
Apart from physical differences, I'd also want personality differences among the animals. These behavior differences can be related to the species or to their origin (breeding program, illegal trade, private collection, rescue, etc).
You want to have individuality because no animal is exactly the same. The goal is to create more reason for players to get attached to their animals, because they are not carbon copies of each other.

Spoiler: Individuality examples

For example:
You have two rhinos, a male and female. The female is a pristine light grey girl from an established zoo breeding program, who is confident with people and doesn't mind the guests, while the male is a beige boy rescued from illegal trade and unfortunately has stumps instead of impressive horns, who doesn't like people and occasionally makes angry displays towards fences with guests watching behind them.

You have a group of lions. Two males (brothers) and six lionesses. One male has darker, fuller manes than his brother. One of the lionesses is super lazy and loves to sleep on rocks, one is erythristic (golden), one loves harassing guests, another loves to drag a specific ball toy around, one always hangs out with cubs even if they are not her own, and the last girl is leucistic (white).

4. More animal behaviors.
This goes hand in hand with point 3. More animal behaviors, more interactions with toys, guests, and other animals.

5. Custom scenario creator.
Create your own scenarios, which you can share in the workshop. Build the starting map, decide the parameters within the game (starting animals in the market, money, etcetera), set the goals!

6. Trade animals with friends.
This speaks for itself. If you have a Steam friend that also owns PZ2, you can trade animals with each other. This can be linked to point 7.

7. Shared maps and Shared franchise.
If you have a Steam friend that also owns PZ2, you can start a Shared map. In other words, you can both work in this file and build your zoo together.
You may also choose to start a Shared franchise together, where you have your own zoos, but you share your CCs and Animal Storage.

8. Automatic storage / sell / release of young animals.
You can set a command for when a young animal reaches adulthood. This way, the animal is automatically sent to storage, sold, or released when it becomes an adult. This will prevent hierarchy problems, fights, injuries, and inbreeding.

 

[AmyEvans]

Some really interesting ideas here, not much to offer except I really hope that there is no PZ2 instead we just get endless PZ1 honestly I just do not want to start from scratch again and wait endlessly for a Meerkat, Koala or anything else that is not included in the base game. After two full years playing this game there is so much I still do not have, why start again, what madness.

But if the off scenario that it has to happen, I at least hope that the graphics blow away what we currently have. Going from JWE to JWE2 is exactly what I would not want, not a significant enough improvement in my eyes. Zoo Tycoon 2 to Planet Zoo kind of improvements, count me in, that leads into my only real requirement more realism. I sometimes wish that the team is now creating the packs could go back in time with all that experience and create the base game, the early animal models lion/hippo/gorilla/orangutan/camel/buffalo etc they were highly stylized and have not aged well in my opinion when placed next to the incredibly detail animals of the packs we have been receiving lately.

 

[Birini]

Some really interesting ideas here, not much to offer except I really hope that there is no PZ2 instead we just get endless PZ1 honestly I just do not want to start from scratch again and wait endlessly for a Meerkat, Koala or anything else that is not included in the base game. After two full years playing this game there is so much I still do not have, why start again, what madness.

But if the off scenario that it has to happen, I at least hope that the graphics blow away what we currently have. Going from JWE to JWE2 is exactly what I would not want, not a significant enough improvement in my eyes. Zoo Tycoon 2 to Planet Zoo kind of improvements, count me in, that leads into my only real requirement more realism. I sometimes wish that the team is now creating the packs could go back in time with all that experience and create the base game, the early animal models lion/hippo/gorilla/orangutan/camel/buffalo etc they were highly stylized and have not aged well in my opinion when placed next to the incredibly detail animals of the packs we have been receiving lately.

This would be my preference too, but history suggests we won’t get it. And in fairness updating all 100+ animals would be a job. I do hope we eventually get a zoo game that constantly updates like you suggest. If you think about, the current system also severely limits the animals variety you can get. (Golden Lion tamarins and North American River otters, for example, are probably a little too obscure to make the game.)

 

[NZFanatic]

but history suggests we won’t get it.

Not really. The only example of a Frontier sequel we have is Jurassic World Evolution 2, which is a property licensed by Universal Studios, so it's not the best indicator of what a Planet Zoo sequel would look like. If we ever get Planet Coaster 2 (which seems more likely than Zoo right now) that will be a better indicator of what we might expect to see in a Zoo sequel.

 

[Birini]

Not really. The only example of a Frontier sequel we have is Jurassic World Evolution 2, which is a property licensed by Universal Studios, so it's not the best indicator of what a Planet Zoo sequel would look like. If we ever get Planet Coaster 2 (which seems more likely than Zoo right now) that will be a better indicator of what we might expect to see in a Zoo sequel.

They also stopped releasing DLC for Planet Coaster. So the building games both had a “final DLC.”

 

[NZFanatic]

They also stopped releasing DLC for Planet Coaster. So the building games both had a “final DLC.”

I'm not sure what you mean. Planet Coaster's support ended, which is why they stopped releasing DLC, but then it was moved to console.

 

[Birini]

I'm not sure what you mean. Planet Coaster's support ended, which is why they stopped releasing DLC, but then it was moved to console.

She said she wanted PZ1 to get “endless” updates — like WoW or other long running MMOs I assume. Neither PlanCo or JWE got endless updates. As you said, they ended support and stopped releasing DLC.

 

[NZFanatic]

Neither PlanCo or JWE got endless updates. As you said, they ended support and stopped releasing DLC.

Oh I see.

Well, both those games had reasons for ending. JWE couldn't continue without major engine upgrades, which is why they built a sequel or so I've heard. For PlanCo, it stopped performing well, so it made sense to end it. PZ is still going strong, and as long as it does DLC will likely remain consistent. We know we have it until at least the beginning of 2023 for example.

 

[Roxxsmom]

I agree it would be fun to actually be able to send your avatar to visit other player's franchise zoos in real time, when they are playing them (if they consent to this). I suppose it opens up a door for harassment or unwanted interaction, but a way to chat with or interact with to other players (who wish to) while playing the game might be interesting. Don't know how many people are playing franchise at a given time, though, compared to the number of people playing an MMO. Or maybe there's a way to have an avatar visit a facsimile of the latest saved version of someone's zoo that they made available?

Still wish we could have aviaries and a variety of birds, but if they introduce that they likely couldn't add enough birds to make the game more zoolike.

As for endless support of a game, I am guessing that companies tend to end this when interest drops off and fewer people are buying the game or DLCs? At some point, many companies decide they can make more money pulling their staff onto a new game in development that they hope will pull even more people in.

Of course this is always a risk--cutting off the loyal customers still have for ones you hope to lure in the future.

Another thing is when technology or player expectations outpace the current game's engine. When a game starts to look klunky and tarnished compared to newer games coming out, the developers may want to introduce something new, or maybe even a sequel. Games like WoW are kind of exceptional. I played that for years, and finally lost interest. I look at the videos of that game now, though, and the animation seems so crude compared to games coming out now. Millions of people still like it, though. But MMORPGs are kind of unusual in general, because they build a community and social experience too, as well as player investment in a whole pretend world with complex lore and so on.

The thing about sequels, though, is they have to do everything the original game did and add new elements too. So yeah, a PZ2 would likely have to start with most of the animals and features in place that this game has now but add new elements too, and of course it would have to deliver even more with DLCs.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Ok, so I’ve avoided answering this thread for a bit because I think it’s very premature to realistically be talking about a sequel (although some have been doing so and predicting the imminent end of support for PZ almost since launch). Nevertheless, I think I’ll answer now, but in a very specific way:

‘What would make me willing to start all over again with a base game?

‘What are features fitting this criterion that are impossible or unlikely to be added to PZ?’

Thinking about it that way, there’s only one major feature that would make it worthwhile (for me):

Seasons.
If the game had seasons which affected plants (leaf loss, flowering, fruiting etc.) and weather (temperature and climatic events) as well as animal behaviour (e.g., mating, rutting etc.) and appearance (antlers, winter vs. summer coats) then I think that might make it worthwhile. In the medium term, I can’t think of anything else that would though.

 

[yoav_r]

1. Better management
2. Seasons
3. Research system which is not one and done
4. Animal individuality
5. Automations for manual tasks
6. Achievements and better "game" experience
7. Better Exhibits
8. Aviaries - we know Frontier is capable of that thanks to JWE2