What Elite needs going forward

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Certainly just my own opinion, but after the (hopeful) implementation of on-foot VR, and before the (also hopeful) addition of ship interiors and/or other large features, I think the original game loops need to be revamped or even overhauled, but especially the following:

• Piracy
• Bounty Hunting
• Smuggling
• Powerplay

The Suggestions forum has a massive pool of ideas for what can be done with the above, which Frontier game designers can use for a basis, or at least for inspiration.

Aside from that, a lot of work can be done for adding more character to the game and improving immersion, but that would be in the form of a thousand little things that add up to something big.

Many other improvements can be made, but I think the above would be the most impactful.

 

[SexyCat]

I think we need the revamps before vr feet or ship interiors. We've waited far too long for the revamps.

 

[Andro]

I think there have been several official feedback requests for Powerplay specifically over the years, never acted upon. That one specifically is this game's Half-Life 3 (which genuinely may come out before a Powerplay update).

 

[Riverside]

I think if you don't already like the game or are bored with what's there nothing that gets added is going to change your mind.

Looking forward to seeing multiple smaller optional and independent pDLCs like a Moon permit and other unlocks for systems, regions of space & types of planets myself, each with associated (relatively paltry) activities specific to those regions that make use of universally available, newly added or existing equipment.

 

[gorankar]

The question really is, how can they fix these things without causing more issues and rage just from different parties? Why do the work if you are just changing who is torqued off at you.
We have been asking for these things for years.

NPC piracy is not really broken provided you know where to find the good hauls until we get to the part where you sell for a fraction of value. Which is silly. Nobody knows 5 systems over that load of whatever you are carrying that you pirated in an anarchy is stolen. PvP piracy is unfixable. Menu logging means your prey only stays if they want to.

I actually think NPC bounty hunting is in a good place if you do your research regarding where you bounty hunt. It can be very lucrative. PvP bounty hunting is in the same place as PvP piracy. Broken by other mechanics Fdev is almost certain to never change, (menu log/modes), or can't realistically change, (P2P networking splitting systems into multiple different shards).

Smuggling could be fixed by being able to sell contraband goods at very high prices in the places those goods are illegal subject to the same supply/demand/system status as legal items. Smuggling is a bit too easy at present but making stations and system authority a bit more aggressive in scanning could fix that up.

Powerplay is really unfixable due to other game mechanics, and wildly differing opinions from the player base as to what would constitute a fix. Any changes would just change who is screaming at Fdev. They are never going to open only or open weight it. Uncapping it will not fix it, just make it easier for large groups to get their way. Having dynamic caps might help some. While I don't think botting is as big an issue as some claim, getting that under control if it really is an issue couldn't hurt anything. However we are dealing with a feature they seem to have almost no idea how to deal with from the moment they put it into the game.

 

[LeoBartlet]

Oh look another VR/Interiors thread to start the week.

 

[Riverside]

Oh look another VR/Interiors thread to start the week.

It is easier to criticise than to to contribute

What do you think Elite needs going forward?

 

[LeoBartlet]

It is easier to criticise than to to contribute

First day on the internet? Also don't wink at me its creepy.

What do you think Elite needs going forward?

More connectivity between Odyssey land-based content and space-based content.
Fixe the games terrible AA
Unbind the Colonia engineer unlock requirements from the engineers in the bubble to make them and Colonia independent.
Rework the Nav menu because its an abomination
Exploration rework so that its more than just jumping, scanning and playing the mini-games.
Add CQC into the main game.
More holiday/festive cosmetics.

To name but a few.

 

[varonica]

Certainly just my own opinion, but after the (hopeful) implementation of on-foot VR, and before the (also hopeful) addition of ship interiors and/or other large features, I think the original game loops need to be revamped or even overhauled, but especially the following:

• Piracy
• Bounty Hunting
• Smuggling
• Powerplay

The Suggestions forum has a massive pool of ideas for what can be done with the above, which Frontier game designers can use for a basis, or at least for inspiration.

Aside from that, a lot of work can be done for adding more character to the game and improving immersion, but that would be in the form of a thousand little things that add up to something big.

Many other improvements can be made, but I think the above would be the most impactful.

So nothing for exploration, one of the most common activities in ED? There's a lot of work there for a tiny minority of players, my idea is to just scrap all that stuff and put all effort into exploration, that would appeal to a much larger part of the player base.

 

[Bonesaw]

Oh look another VR/Interiors thread to start the week.

Would you prefer another console thread instead ?

 

[LeoBartlet]

Would you prefer another console thread instead ?

Oh I'm totally confident that another will appear in short order.

Keeping with the Riverside Doctrine do you have anything to contribute on the subject at hand?

 

[Bonesaw]

Oh I'm totally confident that another will appear in short order.

Keeping with the Riverside Doctrine do you have anything to contribute on the subject at hand?

Yes, they should stop adding more things untill the core issues are felt with in the first place, we(console) had to sit back and wait for anything new alot longer then p.c., they can go a patch or 3 without new content. It won't kill them(you).

 

[Gordon Freeman IV]

Certainly just my own opinion, but after the (hopeful) implementation of on-foot VR, and before the (also hopeful) addition of ship interiors and/or other large features, I think the original game loops need to be revamped or even overhauled, but especially the following:

• Piracy
• Bounty Hunting
• Smuggling
• Powerplay

The Suggestions forum has a massive pool of ideas for what can be done with the above, which Frontier game designers can use for a basis, or at least for inspiration.

Aside from that, a lot of work can be done for adding more character to the game and improving immersion, but that would be in the form of a thousand little things that add up to something big.

Many other improvements can be made, but I think the above would be the most impactful.

Piracy is fine, bounty hunting is fine, smuggling is fine,powerplay is fine.
Black screen teleport is NOT fine (landed ship interiors when)
Current weak atmo planets is NOT fine (i just wanna fly thru a storm cloud and get rained on. On a .33 atm HMC with lakes as ELWs wouold take too much work and have planetary protection issues)

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

The question really is, how can they fix these things without causing more issues and rage just from different parties? Why do the work if you are just changing who is torqued off at you.
We have been asking for these things for years.

NPC piracy is not really broken provided you know where to find the good hauls until we get to the part where you sell for a fraction of value. Which is silly. Nobody knows 5 systems over that load of whatever you are carrying that you pirated in an anarchy is stolen. PvP piracy is unfixable. Menu logging means your prey only stays if they want to.

I actually think NPC bounty hunting is in a good place if you do your research regarding where you bounty hunt. It can be very lucrative. PvP bounty hunting is in the same place as PvP piracy. Broken by other mechanics Fdev is almost certain to never change, (menu log/modes), or can't realistically change, (P2P networking splitting systems into multiple different shards).

Smuggling could be fixed by being able to sell contraband goods at very high prices in the places those goods are illegal subject to the same supply/demand/system status as legal items. Smuggling is a bit too easy at present but making stations and system authority a bit more aggressive in scanning could fix that up.

Powerplay is really unfixable due to other game mechanics, and wildly differing opinions from the player base as to what would constitute a fix. Any changes would just change who is screaming at Fdev. They are never going to open only or open weight it. Uncapping it will not fix it, just make it easier for large groups to get their way. Having dynamic caps might help some. While I don't think botting is as big an issue as some claim, getting that under control if it really is an issue couldn't hurt anything. However we are dealing with a feature they seem to have almost no idea how to deal with from the moment they put it into the game.

I get where you're coming from, but it's a bit defeatist. If the potential to have negative feedback about a change prevented the development of that change, everything would stagnate. New mechanics can introduce their own issues, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement, and you've listed a few good ways.

For piracy, I was thinking more about how the engagement is handled. If there were some piracy dialogue that would initiate the demand to stop, and after a manifest scan would allow you to enter from a list what quantity of each cargo item you're demanding, and which had other options for negotiation/delay tactics/refusal/threats, it would smooth out the whole process, and make it an actual game mechanic, rather than a player-invented process.

Bounty hunting needs a Most Wanted screen, which could show you the most dangerous/highest bounties in the system/quadrant/galaxy out of a finite list. That would require some level of persistence, but I think it's manageable. I would personally love if that were expanded upon, such that there are ways and clues for tracking a bounty, which could take you from space to planet-side. Perhaps even an option to negotiate with a wanted pilot to hand in a fake bounty to get them off the wanted list - for a price.

Smuggling is barely a game mechanic. It's more of a shell of a mechanic. Dash in and don't get scanned. Done. There needs to be more of a minefield, more tactics to evade it, and more of a reward.

Powerplay is a complicated beast, and I agree that the developers don't seem to want to touch it with a 155m long Anaconda, but there should be at least some small improvements that are possible as a starting point.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

So nothing for exploration, one of the most common activities in ED? There's a lot of work there for a tiny minority of players, my idea is to just scrap all that stuff and put all effort into exploration, that would appeal to a much larger part of the player base.

I said I think all the original game loops need revamping, so exploration would be included. However, I think the ones I specifically listed need a lot more attention, which I think is part of the reason why not as many players engage with those game loops.

Generally speaking, I'd say there needs to be a systematic ground-up improvement across all aspects of the game to make it a deeper and more cogent experience. They don't have to do them all at once, but they should definitely plan them together, to get as much interplay between them as possible, wherever that may make sense.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Oh look another VR/Interiors thread to start the week.

Oh look, another "oh look" comment about repetition on forums. They're just as repeated as the threads themselves, if not more so, as there's often more than one person making that brilliantly dry observation that never gets old.

Also, my thread is not really focused on VR or Interiors. Those hoped for enhancements were placed as the temporal borders between which the changes I want to discuss should be developed.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Piracy is fine, bounty hunting is fine, smuggling is fine,powerplay is fine.
Black screen teleport is NOT fine (landed ship interiors when)
Current weak atmo planets is NOT fine (i just wanna fly thru a storm cloud and get rained on. On a .33 atm HMC with lakes as ELWs wouold take too much work and have planetary protection issues)

They're all meh to be honest, which for some of them is a mild review. For what are considered core game loops, that's not fine.

 

[varonica]

I said I think all the original game loops need revamping, so exploration would be included. However, I think the ones I specifically listed need a lot more attention, which I think is part of the reason why not as many players engage with those game loops

Exporation needs a huge amount of work, yet a lot of people are involved in that area of Elite, we are always getting people complaining that all exploration is is jump, jump, jump with nothing to be found anywhere, but a lot of players still engage with it. The ones you listed are actually the minority loops that far fewer people engage in, and that's not because they are poor game loops, they aren't attractive game loops for the majority of players and dressing them up isn't going to change that!

Having said that, my post was possibly slightly sarcastic because you left out one of the most used game loops from your list, and one that needs a lot of attention, I don't think we should abandon your loops, but I don't think they take priority over exploration or indeed any other part of the game.

 

[metatheurgist]

The exploration gameloop is too hard to fix. The problem is the entire galaxy is already explored. Everyone knows every star, the only thing that hasn't been done is for someone to jump there. And there's no issue with jumping there; it's just putting the time in. Making exploration interesting had to happen from the beginning - the horse has not only bolted, the stall is old and beginning to fall apart.

You know the devs had zero understanding of players and their own game when they said they didn't think anyone would jump out to Sag A so quickly.

The only thing you could do to make explo "interesting" now would be to add a whole bunch of unbelievable things for people to find. And that's fraught with issues too.

 

[VR CMDR Novindus]

Exporation needs a huge amount of work, yet a lot of people are involved in that area of Elite, we are always getting people complaining that all exploration is is jump, jump, jump with nothing to be found anywhere, but a lot of players still engage with it. The ones you listed are actually the minority loops that far fewer people engage in, and that's not because they are poor game loops, they aren't attractive game loops for the majority of players and dressing them up isn't going to change that!

Having said that, my post was possibly slightly sarcastic because you left out one of the most used game loops from your list, and one that needs a lot of attention, I don't think we should abandon your loops, but I don't think they take priority over exploration or indeed any other part of the game.

I agree, exploration could benefit from some serious changes, but it’s difficult to gauge how many players are engaging with each game loop, and if there is a lack of engagement what the reasons are.

For example few people bother with smuggling because it’s a virtually no gameplay, next to no risk, and low reward proposition. I’m fairly confident that many Star Wars and Firefly fans would love to play out their Smuggler fantasies, and currently Elite doesn’t make much of an effort to provide the opportunity. But as to how many playing Elite - who knows?

To be honest though, I’m not really fussed in what order these loops are addressed, as long as there is a commitment to look at them, so I’d not be complaining if exploration were tackled first.