What i would like to change on Exploration and why

Dwarden

Dwarden
+++ software updates for Discovery Scanner (additional scan needed next to first one) +++
* software updates should be new upgrade item similar to Livery tab (Painting as the UI element is available, just add new 'tab' category to use)

  • Minor Objects Scan
    • this will reveal Comets, Moonlets (in rings), Dwarf Planets (500-1500km radius) Dwarf Moons (<100-800km radius), special asteroids, massive asteroids (planetoids), trojans, centaurs etc.
    • expecting those in future ED as new procedural seed for star system's richness with stellar objects smaller than existing moons/planets
    • 10000ls 1A (+1000ls each letter tier from 2000ls 1I)
    • 1000ls 0A (default for Advanced Discovery Scanner)
    • 500ls 0F (default for Intermediate Discover scanner)
    • 100ls 0I (default update for basic Discovery Scanner)


+++ software updates for Detailed Surface Scanner (additional scan needed next to first one)
* software updates should be new upgrade item similar to Livery tab (Painting as the UI element is available, just add new 'tab' category to use)


  • Lifeform Surface Scan - this reveals way more detailed information about life on the planet
  • Radiation Surface scan - this reveals details about radiation details on the surface of target body
  • Double Surface Scan - this auto scans two objects of "same type"(!) orbiting each other (or barry center) (e.g. planets or moons or binary stars)
  • Largest Mass scan - this auto scans also most massive object orbiting the scanned object (e.g. Star + Gas Giant, Gas Giant + largest moon etc)
  • Moon-group scan - scans all moons around target body, total time of scan is 20s * number of moons (so it's slightly slower than scanning moon manually (18s).)
  • Scanner precision updates - Basic (default), Standard (100k), Enhanced (500k), Precise (1000k)


Notes:

1. increase exploration reward for
  • A. Life anywhere (Science/Research) (life is unique anomaly) = 6x
  • B. Military (armies and those in power always pay well) = 5x
  • C. Terrestrial Earth alike planets / Water-worlds (worlds allowing colonization w/o expensive terraforming efforts) = 4x
  • D. Rest of terraformable worlds (expensive colonization) = 3x
  • E. Wonders (tourism) = 3x
  • F. Economy (Mining,Refining,Production = 2x

2. After selling data about lifeforms
  • A. that system shall seen activity of science ships scanning the giant/planet/moon
  • B. Candidate for new outpost, Science Lab around such body (Scientific outpost)

3. Detailed exploration shall drive construction of smaller outposts
  • A. Outpost to prequel Colonization/Terraforming - Terraform labs (visually very diffrent variant of scientific outpost)
  • B. later followed by bigger station
  • C. undergo terraforming or colonization

4. Partial exploration shall drive construction of tiny sparse outposts (observation, relay, lookout, refuel)
  • New type of outposts (observation and relay outpost) with only 'smallest' landing pad (rarely medium)
  • those are usually automated or handful crew posts

5. way to keep the planned routes (saved)
  • atm. if you plan long route and then select something along the route, it erase the route, thus ability to save/preserve it independently on target would be great

6. the 'first reveal' needs slight overhaul
  • (IMHO) 2 names shall be mentioned
  • the person discovering the stellar body first (as it's now)
  • the person who does first detailed scan (because that may reveal more about lifeforms/resources/other important stuff etc.)

7. turreted scanner upgrade
  • allows you to scan stellar bodies targeted in free-look view (still need distant and detailed surface scanners to function)
  • same slot as Point Defence (Utility mount)

8. stellar objects details
  • for example distance to the object it orbits is missing from the system map
  • magnitude value of the object

9. object list (left panel)
  • add ability to use filters to show/hide in-system objects (objectives, stations/outpots, planets, moons, rings, ships, players etc.)



the 'infinite range' scanner removes any reveal interaction effort needed to find distant stellar bodies in star system
IMHO such feature 'cheat' is wrong in game-play sense, thus i propose to triple amount of scanners to fill the gap properly:

please those who disagree with such argument, remember the proposed software upgrades enhancing the scanners etc.
they aimed on making things less boring (tedious) (example the multi-object scan with clear boundaries to avoid overabuse)
note that the 5 million Light-Seconds range is very close to existing ADS (if radically higher distances exist (not aware of yet) then adjustment to 10 or 25 million ls scanner as best)
take in mind those ranges, categories, prices and names are suggestion, not definition of must,
in this very same post, I suggest the reward for worthy discoveries (for economy, research, tourism, colonization and military) shall be multiplied accordingly
realize I'm not trying to merge Discovery Scanners and Surface Scanners (in fact I would prefer them stay separate)

range 0.5k to 5k ls
  • 0000500ls 1I Basic Discovery Scanner , 1k cost
  • 0001000ls 1H Normal Discovery Scanner , 10k
  • 0005000ls 1G Enhanced Discovery Scanner , 50k
range 10k to 100k ls
  • 0010000ls 1F Intermediate Discovery Scanner , 500k
  • 0050000ls 1E Wide Discovery Scanner , 1000k
  • 0100000ls 1D Major Discovery Scanner , 2500k
range 500k to 5million ls
  • 0500000ls 1C Advanced Discovery Scanner, 5000k
  • 1000000ls 1B Distant Discovery Scanner 10000k
  • 5000000ls 1A Deep Space Discovery Scanner 25000k

* last 3 scanners shall return message "There seems to be more objects beyond detection range" with 'wide vector' indicator on radar
* extreme situation can be adjusted (e.g. increased detection range for way too massive objects)


p.s. before you start argument that infinite scanner is good because you don't have time to find parallax on that distant star/planet
then ask yourself why there is no "collect all cargo from space" "mine everything" "kill everyone in sight" feature ...
non-infinite scanner allows small margin of error and may leave something to find for lucky later explorer ...



I had more on mind but this is enough for starter


there are several other good threads on this forum in relation to improving exploration, so I don't need create duplicate


note: as far I know the Milky Way galaxy in ED is missing even Stellar Streams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stellar_streams
View attachment 18309
 
Last edited:

Snake Man

S
You gave lot of thought on that, nice. I like this more detailed approach on exploration and it would be very good to have more scanner modules than just the existing three (default, intermediate and see-all).
 

InMemoriamSirocco

Banned
InMemoriamSirocco
Dwarden said:
p.s. before you start argument that infinite scanner is good because you don't have time to find parallax on that distant star/planet
then ask yourself why there is no "collect all cargo from space" "mine everything" "kill everyone in sight" feature ...
non-infinite scanner allows margin of error and may leave something to find for lucky later explorer ...

p.p.s. I had more on mind but this is enough for starter
Click to expand...

"Collect all cargo" is a feature many have asked for, and in the form of cargo retrieval drones is eventually coming.

Kudos for the list, but you won't convince anyone to remove the Advanced D-Scanner from the game. It lacks enough convenience features as it is, and the result of removing it would probably be a massive flamewar on the forums.
 

Dwarden

Dwarden
InMemoriamSirocco said:
"Collect all cargo" is a feature many have asked for, and in the form of cargo retrieval drones is eventually coming.

Kudos for the list, but you won't convince anyone to remove the Advanced D-Scanner from the game. It lacks enough convenience features as it is, and the result of removing it would probably be a massive flamewar on the forums.
Click to expand...

drones will take time to collect cargo and for sure be range limited, infinite range scanner isn't either ...

as you can see I provide alternative for it, 3 best scanners get vector helpers allowing find the rest of objects if any beyond theirs max range
 

DJ

DJ
I like the notion of "software upgrades" for the scanners.

Not sure flooding the modules screen with a wider range of scanner choices is a good idea though. Many Cmdrs have enough trouble comprehending A-I and numerical ratings as it is with shield generators & weaponry for example. Overcomplicating things is unwelcome - but you've clearly given this a lot of thought and it holds merit.
 

Hexcaliber

Hexcaliber
I agree exploration needs an overhaul, and the idea of a scanner that reveals everything in a system removes any notion of gameplay.

Further the current tagging system is rather silly, if should require a detailed surface scan before anyone is listed as its discoverer, as frankly, the current system is all too easy. Folks can buy a module for 1.5mil and tag hundreds of planets an hour; what next, award the tag for the first person to look at the system on the galaxy map; a little more effort than is required at present should be needed.

Further, once a systems data has been acquired and sold on by another player its status of having been explored previously should be visible from the galaxy map. Other players should not have to waste their time visiting a system with the intention of exploration, only to realise someone else has been there first. If we are not selling the data for entry into a cartographic database, what are we selling it for?

I would also like to see some surprises out there, yes, I know an accurate representation of our Galaxy is the basis for the game, but that does not necessarily preclude the possibility of finding abandoned structures on planets, in orbit, evidence of previous occupation, even minor races, or settlers that splintered off from earth long ago. Events such as those and as many others as people can imagine would flesh out and improve the gameplay aspect of exploration immensely and give a real feeling of discovery, even if only rarely.
 
Last edited:

NeilF

NeilF
Dwarden said:
the 'infinite range' scanner removes any reveal interaction effort needed to find distant stellar bodies in star system
IMHO such feature 'cheat' is wrong ingame playy sense, thus i propose to triple amount of scanners to fill the gap properly:
range 0.5k to 5k ls
  • 0000500ls 1I Basic Discovery Scanner , 1k cost
  • 0001000ls 1H Normal Discovery Scanner , 10k
  • 0005000ls 1G Enhanced Discovery Scanner , 50k
range 10k to 100k ls
  • 0010000ls 1F Intermediate Discovery Scanner , 500k
  • 0050000ls 1E Wide Discovery Scanner , 1000k
  • 0100000ls 1D Major Discovery Scanner , 2500k
range 500k to 5million ls
  • 0500000ls 1C Advanced Discovery Scanner, 5000k
  • 1000000ls 1B Distant Discovery Scanner 10000k
  • 5000000ls 1A Deep Space Discovery Scanner 25000k
* last 3 scanners shall return message "There seems to be more objects beyond detection range" with 'wide vector' indicator on radar

+++ software updates for Discovery Scanner (additional scan needed next to first one) +++
* software updates should be new upgrade item similar to Painting (the UI element is available, just add new 'tab' category to use)

  • Minor Objects Scan
    • this will reveal Comets, Moonlets (in rings), Dwarf Planets (500-1500km radius) Dwarf Moons (<100-800km radius), special asteroids, massive asteroids (planetoids), trojans, centaurs etc.
    • expecting those in future ED as new procedural seed for star system's richness with stellar objects smaller than existing moons/planets
    • 10000ls 1A (+1000ls each letter tier from 2000ls 1I)
    • 1000ls 0A (default for Advanced Discovery Scanner)
    • 500ls 0F (default for Intermediate Discover scanner)
    • 100ls 0I (default update for basic Discovery Scanner)


+++ software updates for Detailed Scanner (additional scan needed next to first one)
* software updates should be new upgrade item similar to Painting (the UI element is available, just add new 'tab' category to use)


  • Lifeform Surface Scan - this reveals way more detailed information about life on the planet
  • Radiation Surface scan - this reveals details about radiation details on the surface of target body
  • Double Surface Scan - this auto scans two objects of "same type"(!) orbiting each other (or barry center) (e.g. planets or moons or binary stars)
  • Largest Mass scan - this auto scans also most massive object orbiting the scanned object (e.g. Star + Gas Giant, Gas Giant + largest moon etc)
  • Moon-group scan - scans all moons around target body, total time of scan is 20s * number of moons (so it's slightly slower than scanning moon manually (18s).)
  • Scanner precision updates - Basic (default), Standard (100k), Enhanced (500k), Precise (1000k)


Notes:

1. increase exploration reward for
  • A. Life anywhere = 6x (life is unique anomaly)
  • B. terrestrial / waterworlds (worlds allowing colonization w/o terraforming efforts) = 4x
  • C. Rest of terraformable worlds = 2x
  • D. Wonders = 2x

2. After selling data about lifeforms
  • A. that system shall seen activity of science ships scanning the giant/planet/moon
  • B. Candidate for new outpost, Science Lab around such body (Scientific outpost)

3. Detailed exploration shall drive construction of smaller outposts
  • A. Outpost to prequel Colonization/Terraforming - Terraform labs (visually very diffrent variant of scientific outpost)
  • B. later followed by bigger station
  • C. undergo terraforming or colonization

4. Partial exploration shall drive construction of tiny sparse outposts (observation, relay, lookout, refuel)
  • New type of outposts (observation and relay outpost) with only 'smallest' landing pad (rarely medium)
  • those are usually automated or handful crew posts


p.s. before you start argument that infinite scanner is good because you don't have time to find parallax on that distant star/planet
then ask yourself why there is no "collect all cargo from space" "mine everything" "kill everyone in sight" feature ...
non-infinite scanner allows margin of error and may leave something to find for lucky later explorer ...

p.p.s. I had more on mind but this is enough for starter
Click to expand...

While I'd definitely like more depth & variety in exploration, I really wouldn't want to see our current "supercruise... stop... point... scan... repeat..." turned into "supercruise... stop... point... scan... scan... scan... scan... scan... repeat..."

That said, a number of your suggestions are aimed at speeding things up, which I'd like. Personally I'd like to be able to fly around an object and scan it and look at it at the same time:-
- Video Closeup: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118841
- Turreted scanner: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=117901

I also mentioned some exploration enhancements here, including very remote outposts (with specialised missions etc) - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95448

But yes, anything to introduce more depth(skill) and value out of exploration please.
 
Last edited:

Rekal

R
The idea that the Advanced Discovery Scanner with 'infinite' range is somehow game breaking or cheating or removes game play is kind of absurd. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but astronomers have been discovering planets orbiting other stars 100s of Light Years away here from Earth for years. Why shouldn't a technology with over a millennium of technical advancement, scientific achievement, and industrial refinement work incredibly efficient?

Keep in mind what the ADS does, it detects an object using the objects gravity well. It detects it's mass (how big the gravity well is), it's radius (how deep the well is), and a few details on it's orbit-speed and trajectory. All stuff our current modern techniques can determine (we think) just by looking at the star. I assume of course because it does this at FTL speeds it is detecting gravity wells, and as long as the resolution of the scanner is high enough (cheaper scanners have lower resolution) it can do this for the entire system.

The scanner is not technically 'infinite' range, if it was why would we have to use it more than once ever? Infinite range means one scan from Sol and we've mapped the entire galaxy. If it bothers you that you do not need to do parallax exploring to find distant objects, the simple solution is don't use the ADS. It doesn't seem plausible that a thousand years of space exploration would leave us looking out the window to find stuff, a technical solution to automate things would have been designed a long time ago.

Anyway, that's my gripe about changing the discovery scanners, I don't think it'll gain any traction. Finding stellar objects should not be difficult at all, because you can do it by eye if necessary.

As for the detailed surface scanner upgrades, I would like to see off bore scanning, being able to fly around objects instead of stopping and pointing at them would be a nice improvement. Even just automatically switching and scanning the next available object would be great. We'll all have to wait and see what the Level 2 and Level 3 scans entail before worrying about it too much though.

I see people mentioning that they want to add some type of game play mechanic that introduces skill into exploration. It seems the mechanic of using a module to scan an object takes away any chance of adding something like that. If they added off bore scanning (turreted scanning) though the ability to keep the ship's speed up and getting to the next target faster would be a skill mechanic that would increase efficiency. Just a thought.
 

mossfoot

mossfoot
Appreciate the thought you put into this. I too would like something added to the way exploration is done. A turreted scanner you can immerse yourself into, staying locked on while data feeds bit by bit until complete would be nice. You'd need to make sure your ship isn't going to crash into anything first.

But imagine how much more information we'd absorb if the data coming in from a planet was fed to us on this screen. You're in the scanner cam, locked on, and each tic bring up more info - surface temp, atmospheric content, etc. Would be more interesting than just waiting and staring for 30 seconds like it currently is, then having to go to System Info to see what you found in detail.
 

Dwarden

Dwarden
NeilF said:
While I'd definitely like more depth & variety in exploration, I really wouldn't want to see our current "supercruise... stop... point... scan... repeat..." turned into "supercruise... stop... point... scan... scan... scan... scan... scan... repeat..."

That said, a number of your suggestions are aimed at speeding things up, which I'd like. Personally I'd like to be able to fly around an object and scan it and look at it at the same time:-
- Video Closeup: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=118841
- Turreted scanner: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=117901

I also mentioned some exploration enhancements here, including very remote outposts (with specialised missions etc) - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=95448

But yes, anything to introduce more depth(skill) and value out of exploration please.
Click to expand...

please realize you don't need stop to scan, also in fact you need to KEEP moving to be able use parallax,
my success discovery rate of stellar objects was 85-100 % on systems using just the 1k scanner
 
Last edited:

Dwarden

Dwarden
Hexcaliber said:
I agree exploration needs an overhaul, and the idea of a scanner that reveals everything in a system removes any notion of gameplay.

Further the current tagging system is rather silly, if should require a detailed surface scan before anyone is listed as its discoverer, as frankly, the current system is all too easy. Folks can buy a module for 1.5mil and tag hundreds of planets an hour; what next, award the tag for the first person to look at the system on the galaxy map; a little more effort than is required at present should be needed.

Further, once a systems data has been acquired and sold on by another player its status of having been explored previously should be visible from the galaxy map. Other players should not have to waste their time visiting a system with the intention of exploration, only to realise someone else has been there first. If we are not selling the data for entry into a cartographic database, what are we selling it for?

I would also like to see some surprises out there, yes, I know an accurate representation of our Galaxy is the basis for the game, but that does not necessarily preclude the possibility of finding abandoned structures on planets, in orbit, evidence of previous occupation, even minor races, or settlers that splintered off from earth long ago. Events such as those and as many others as people can imagine would flesh out and improve the gameplay aspect of exploration immensely and give a real feeling of discovery, even if only rarely.
Click to expand...

I think one of the problems is, who you selling those data to
there are 3 Major faction (Imperial, Federation, Alliance and if I'm not wrong Independent don't count as major)
and Minor factions (many systems/corporations etc.) ...

one can conclude that you selling those data to major faction station will result into you seeing those revealed in any major station
(if you use the filter to show what systems you can buy cartographic data from)
now if you sell the data to Independent system, e.g. which controls only 2 star systems, then I assume those data are available ONLY in that 2 systems
so that brings interesting mechanics like, you can influence the expansion of Independent systems and minor factions to nearby systems
and I assume on large scale it works for the major factions too but with lesser impact as they receiving tons of new reports

In my opinion system should be marked by Major power cartographic as explored after e.g. 3-10 people sell scan of that star system
(correct data validation needs at minimum 3 different players)

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

mossfoot said:
Appreciate the thought you put into this. I too would like something added to the way exploration is done. A turreted scanner you can immerse yourself into, staying locked on while data feeds bit by bit until complete would be nice. You'd need to make sure your ship isn't going to crash into anything first.

But imagine how much more information we'd absorb if the data coming in from a planet was fed to us on this screen. You're in the scanner cam, locked on, and each tic bring up more info - surface temp, atmospheric content, etc. Would be more interesting than just waiting and staring for 30 seconds like it currently is, then having to go to System Info to see what you found in detail.
Click to expand...

btw. I like the idea of turreted scanner upgrade (still need normal scanners to function)
maybe similar to Point Defence (same slot)
 
Last edited:

Pianoman

P
Nice detailed scanner ideas. Im fairly content with the current process except for time consumption. Like th idea analysis is needed for vanity label. My main issue is traveling. We need globulars and be able to travel much longer distances. i think a very very expensive drive could be bought for 3 distances. 100 to 10000, 10000 to 100000 and a extra-Galactic jump. These would help get you out trouble, aid in returning from afar, last, expand the game to infinity. Each jump would be very long...from 10min for a 100ly to several hours For a galactic jump with recharge times in days to weeks . Also theres a greater chance of failure during these long jumps adding some element of danger...albiet able to get out of the situation. Can you imaine being stuck between The Milky Way and Andromada? Only other would be added planet/moon diversity and especially looks. No more generic images.

Also, these longer jumps have a 10% volume around your target, large miss potential. On galactic jumps, you can only jump into quadrants...not accurate at all.
 
Last edited:

Dwarden

Dwarden
Pianoman said:
Nice detailed scanner ideas. Im fairly content with the current process except for time consumption. Like th idea analysis is needed for vanity label. My main issue is traveling. We need globulars and be able to travel much longer distances. i think a very very expensive drive could be bought for 3 distances. 100 to 10000, 10000 to 100000 and a extra-Galactic jump. These would help get you out trouble, aid in returning from afar, last, expand the game to infinity. Each jump would be very long...from 10min for a 100ly to several hours For a galactic jump with recharge times in days to weeks . Also theres a greater chance of failure during these long jumps adding some element of danger...albiet able to get out of the situation. Can you imaine being stuck between The Milky Way and Andromada? Only other would be added planet/moon diversity and especially looks. No more generic images.
Click to expand...

there is only 1 galaxy in E:D universe,
as far I know the Milky Way galaxy in ED is missing even Stellar Streams http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stellar_streams
480px-Sig07-008.jpg
 
Last edited:

Chrisfs

C
I totally agree with the thought that the Advanced scanner takes away from the game and is practically a 'cheat'. I do like an extended range of scanners and the concept of not an exact location, but rather a suggestion. There should not be an infinite scan for exactly the reasons listed in your p.s. I have been meaning to post that in the suggestions forum for some time. I don't have time to read the rest throughly, but had to comment on that part.
 
Last edited:

Genar-Hofoen

Genar-Hofoen
Rekal said:
The idea that the Advanced Discovery Scanner with 'infinite' range is somehow game breaking or cheating or removes game play is kind of absurd. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but astronomers have been discovering planets orbiting other stars 100s of Light Years away here from Earth for years. Why shouldn't a technology with over a millennium of technical advancement, scientific achievement, and industrial refinement work incredibly efficient?

Keep in mind what the ADS does, it detects an object using the objects gravity well. It detects it's mass (how big the gravity well is), it's radius (how deep the well is), and a few details on it's orbit-speed and trajectory. All stuff our current modern techniques can determine (we think) just by looking at the star. I assume of course because it does this at FTL speeds it is detecting gravity wells, and as long as the resolution of the scanner is high enough (cheaper scanners have lower resolution) it can do this for the entire system.

The scanner is not technically 'infinite' range, if it was why would we have to use it more than once ever? Infinite range means one scan from Sol and we've mapped the entire galaxy. If it bothers you that you do not need to do parallax exploring to find distant objects, the simple solution is don't use the ADS. It doesn't seem plausible that a thousand years of space exploration would leave us looking out the window to find stuff, a technical solution to automate things would have been designed a long time ago.

Anyway, that's my gripe about changing the discovery scanners, I don't think it'll gain any traction. Finding stellar objects should not be difficult at all, because you can do it by eye if necessary.

As for the detailed surface scanner upgrades, I would like to see off bore scanning, being able to fly around objects instead of stopping and pointing at them would be a nice improvement. Even just automatically switching and scanning the next available object would be great. We'll all have to wait and see what the Level 2 and Level 3 scans entail before worrying about it too much though.

I see people mentioning that they want to add some type of game play mechanic that introduces skill into exploration. It seems the mechanic of using a module to scan an object takes away any chance of adding something like that. If they added off bore scanning (turreted scanning) though the ability to keep the ship's speed up and getting to the next target faster would be a skill mechanic that would increase efficiency. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree with everything you've said, and have some +rep for it.
 

Chrisfs

C
Hexcaliber said:
I agree exploration needs an overhaul, and the idea of a scanner that reveals everything in a system removes any notion of gameplay.

Further the current tagging system is rather silly, if should require a detailed surface scan before anyone is listed as its discoverer, as frankly, the current system is all too easy. Folks can buy a module for 1.5mil and tag hundreds of planets an hour; what next, award the tag for the first person to look at the system on the galaxy map; a little more effort than is required at present should be needed.
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that you ARE required to scan the surface of a planet or star in order to have yourself listed as the discoverer, even with an advanced scanner. While I do not have an advanced scanner currently, I have been told by a few explorers that that is the case.


If we are not selling the data for entry into a cartographic database, what are we selling it for?
Click to expand...
In Game: there is a need for secondary and follow up scans
Out of Game: There is still plenty of money to be made scanning systems that are already discovered by someone, but not by you personally. It gives an intro to exploration for people who can't immediately make it out 600 lys or more.
 

Chrisfs

C
Giving a pseudo-scientific explanation on how advanced scanners work is not an argument for why it removes game play or not. Anyone can make up any sort of in game scientific reason. We could do the same for a ship AI that automates trading or combat for you, so all you need to do is press a button and the ship AI would take over and automatically (and instantly) defeat any opponent, we could stand by that because thousands of years from now AIs could be that good, but pushing a button and instantly winning a combat every time makes for a very bad game no matter how much science you use to support it.
The same thing is true with advanced scanner. Pushing a button for a few seconds and having everything in a system laid out for you, is not as good a game as having to find stars and planets against the background of galaxy yourself.

Rekal said:
The idea that the Advanced Discovery Scanner with 'infinite' range is somehow game breaking or cheating or removes game play is kind of absurd. I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but astronomers have been discovering planets orbiting other stars 100s of Light Years away here from Earth for years. Why shouldn't a technology with over a millennium of technical advancement, scientific achievement, and industrial refinement work incredibly efficient?

Keep in mind what the ADS does, it detects an object using the objects gravity well. It detects it's mass (how big the gravity well is), it's radius (how deep the well is), and a few details on it's orbit-speed and trajectory. All stuff our current modern techniques can determine (we think) just by looking at the star. I assume of course because it does this at FTL speeds it is detecting gravity wells, and as long as the resolution of the scanner is high enough (cheaper scanners have lower resolution) it can do this for the entire system.

The scanner is not technically 'infinite' range, if it was why would we have to use it more than once ever? Infinite range means one scan from Sol and we've mapped the entire galaxy. If it bothers you that you do not need to do parallax exploring to find distant objects, the simple solution is don't use the ADS. It doesn't seem plausible that a thousand years of space exploration would leave us looking out the window to find stuff, a technical solution to automate things would have been designed a long time ago.

Anyway, that's my gripe about changing the discovery scanners, I don't think it'll gain any traction. Finding stellar objects should not be difficult at all, because you can do it by eye if necessary.

As for the detailed surface scanner upgrades, I would like to see off bore scanning, being able to fly around objects instead of stopping and pointing at them would be a nice improvement. Even just automatically switching and scanning the next available object would be great. We'll all have to wait and see what the Level 2 and Level 3 scans entail before worrying about it too much though.

I see people mentioning that they want to add some type of game play mechanic that introduces skill into exploration. It seems the mechanic of using a module to scan an object takes away any chance of adding something like that. If they added off bore scanning (turreted scanning) though the ability to keep the ship's speed up and getting to the next target faster would be a skill mechanic that would increase efficiency. Just a thought.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:

Jeeves

J
Firstly, it should be noted that just because a body is found out in space, doesn't mean it is worth anything, and that data on it will prove interesting to humanity. The sheer amount of Red Dwarf stars out in the universe means such a huge abundance of tiny dustballs, that's it's really a waste of time to not know what's in the system right from the get go.

There's no reason to be surprised that a scanner theoretically could detect objects from many thousands of light seconds away, everything included in the system. If we have the power to manipulate spacetime to fly FTL, we also have the ability to transmit information FTL, and our scanners probably work FTL as well. So detecting a large body gravitating in a big system isn't out of the realm of possiblity in the slightest.

And the amount of time that is wasted. Yes, wasted, I said wasted and intend that meaning by having to search around in a system for an object makes exploring the longest grind in the game. There is no reason it should get any harder, when we haven't even explored a billion new star systems yet. If the science is already advanced enough to do everything it can do, then it should do that. Exploring makes zero sense without the ADS, because a big system already takes close to an hour to scan sometimes. And it's just data, it has no real relevance economically besides opening up new potential places to colonize.

Sure, I can find lots of earth like planets on the other side of the galaxy, but I don't think that anyone is going to want to pay 100,000 credits for that when there is virtually no way that humanity is going to end up colonizing that system. The only thing your ideas would bring is a more painful, unprofitable, and grindy process that people shouldn't have to undergo.

I try, for example to skip Red Dwarf systems whenever I can. They rarely have more than some crappy snowballs that no one cares about. But sometimes they do. Now, with your method, if I jump into a system with two stars, and one is really, really far away, I have to waste close to an hour of time (or possibly more) getting over to the edge of my scanner just to pop it off and find out that either there are no planets, or they're all crappy iceballs.

This would frustrate me to no end. It would over time make me positively livid, especially if it was really hard to find. Or worse, how annoying it would be if I found out that the planets had already been scanned.

Proxima Centauri is about 0.1 LY away from Alpha Centauri. so in order to get there the flying takes more than an hour. Now, there will be more stars like this. And the only planets just might be around those stars. Without the already feasible means to pop scan the entire system, you don't know if you're just wasting your time. And me? I hate wasting time.

I can tell that you want to make it more rewarding/engaging and I'm with you on that, but just wait for planetary landings. Class 2 and 3 scans will be used for alien artifacts and other anomalies that will net lots and lots more money. You can already tell some of the systems those will be in, because they require a permit to visit.

So don't fret, more dimensions to exploring will come soon. The idea of limiting the range of the best scanner would irritate me in ways I cannot even describe to you. I'm an FGE explorer, and if I had to do that for hours and hours on end, I would leave the expedition, I would get so bored and so frustrated with all the stupid snowballs I would get stuck scanning. Nope. Nope nope nope. Just don't let this germinate any more in your head, the consequences of such a revamp are terrible, and they would just ruin the fun of expedition for me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom