What if the Thargoids are ...

[Quantis Trap]

I'll be intentionally vague about details in this next couple sentences so as to not give away spoilers in a big way.


This pertains to Elite Dangerous Lore (not the old lore) and what we now know about the two "dynasties" of Thargoids (Oresrians and Klaxians), INRA, the mycoid virus, Jameson's crashed Cobra and the hive massacre.


The hive massacre may explain more why the Thargoids have been tiptoeing around instead of making an all out attack.


In game, all Thargoids we encounter are busying themselves kidnapping humans in escape pods. We make the logical assumption that the same Thargoids just attacked the ships before swiping the humans though we've never seen that happen. What is the motivation of these Thargoids when they attack the ships and swipe humans?

Are all the Thargoids unified and swiping humans as lab rats to make a revenge virus? Humans are spread out and not as vulnerable as a hive but, so maybe they need a hole bunch of humans to inject back into the population before they pull the trigger?


On the other hand, could it be that the more aggressive Klaxian Thargoids are making a virus, but the more peaceful Oresrian Thargoids, are swiping humans as lab rats to make a cure?


Just some ideas I'm having.


Enjoy

 

[Magichp]

As of now, there are no klaxians, osresians, predators, gelfs, Klingons or any other alien in-game. Only thargoids.

I already had several discussions on the subject, and while I agree they are part of lore (or rather backstory but that's a personal opinion), there is currently no thing in-game pointing us into that direction. They could be any clan, it doesn't mean anything in-game as long as they aren't identified as such and it hasn't any effect gameplay wise.

For now, those O and K are limited to books, just like Thargoids are limited to their own nhss Any theory implying we are fighting O or K is speculation until FD officially introduces them in-game.

I don't think there are different clans myself, so far they all seem pretty unified to me. There has been reports of basilisks and cyclops in the same instance, and they didn't fight each others, so if (a big if ^^) there are indeed other clans/subspecies/whatever they simply aren't in-game right now.

 

[Quantis Trap]

I don't think the two types of craft, however biological they are, have anything to do with it. I also think the thargoids being limited to an NHSS just a game mechanic and completely irrelevant to the plot.

You're right that the Oresrian and Klaxian terms are not in game yet, but Oresrian has been in three books and Klaxian in two. Those stats don't make any difference either, but I hope we find out sooner vs later. This is dragging out far too long.

I'm also hoping that we might see a lost group of Guardians come back too.

Basically I'm hoping for far more of ANYTHING in the plot! If you compare the volume Elite Dangerous plot to what there was in First Contact and before Elite Dangerous has a long way to go!

 

[Magichp]

I guess we all hope for more content, even story wise. But too many people in these forums use the O and K as established facts. They are in books, ok, we got it, that doesn't mean they'll be in-game, and indeed as of now they aren't. Maybe they'll get mentionned in a log or something later, that still wouldn't mean it has any effect on the game. And most likely, they will never be mentionned in-game because their existence or not has no impact on how things will unravel (yes that sentence is a guess ^^ ).
On a personnal note, I think that would be a very bad move from FD to suddenly introduce a faction of aliens soon after the introduction of the first aliens, especially since they're mentionned in english-only books that most players haven't and won't read.

Also, they've been talked about in these forums for what, a year and a half? And the discussion never moved "they're in the books! - they're not in-game - Aha, next update..."

No one has more information and no one will until FD decides so. Thinking of a theory that has no in-game ties is just a waste of time, no offense meant.

I didn't heard about that "Hive massacre", care to explain or point me in the right direction? Edit: Oh, the Jameson logs, I already forgot about those ^^

 

[CMDR MRMAURICE]

I guess we all hope for more content, even story wise. But too many people in these forums use the O and K as established facts. They are in books, ok, we got it, that doesn't mean they'll be in-game, and indeed as of now they aren't. Maybe they'll get mentionned in a log or something later, that still wouldn't mean it has any effect on the game. And most likely, they will never be mentionned in-game because their existence or not has no impact on how things will unravel (yes that sentence is a guess ^^ ).
On a personnal note, I think that would be a very bad move from FD to suddenly introduce a faction of aliens soon after the introduction of the first aliens, especially since they're mentionned in english-only books that most players haven't and won't read.

Also, they've been talked about in these forums for what, a year and a half? And the discussion never moved "they're in the books! - they're not in-game - Aha, next update..."

No one has more information and no one will until FD decides so. Thinking of a theory that has no in-game ties is just a waste of time, no offense meant.

I didn't heard about that "Hive massacre", care to explain or point me in the right direction? Edit: Oh, the Jameson logs, I already forgot about those ^^

The UAs (TS) where human at one point and many people debated for years on where they came from. Only a select few said they where thargoid and was shut down. UPs (TP) appeared, also debated to be human and where monitoring ammonia world's for thargs, also the barnacles had some crazy theories as to what and where they came from. Both wrong so let's say it's ok to speculate and wonder, is that so bad??

Premonition has events from ingame (I'm assuming you've read it) to allow us to speculate. Drew said that the characters could be lying and that's fine. The OP is only speculating, better than another moan thread.

 

[Magichp]

Speculating and wondering is fine, saying "They're Osresians because they scoop up pods" is not ^^ There are no Osresians or Klaxians in the game right now, period. Only Thargoids. Making a theory making reference to them is ok, but implying they are in game or that their very in-game existence is real is wrong.

Just look at the number of threads stating "I won't fight Oresrians" or such, so many people are making this a proved fact that it has to stop. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully open to discussing Thargoids motives and goals, as long as it is stated that it is pure theory and that it has no ties to what we currently see in-game. As I said, it is a waste of time, but so is playing videogames, and I do that daily

I remember the debates around UAs, it was fun mostly because people came up with crazy theories always based on what can be found in-game. And none of those were more or less valid than the Thargoid one at the time. Here, it is like everyone has proof that O and K are clearly having an impact on the game but when it is asked the answer is "read the books". No crazy theory, no brilliant idea that will never see completion, just everyone shouting Oresrians and that's it. I'm still not even sure on the spelling since there are many variations on these threads.

There are many possibilities, but nobody explores them because "we know they're O and K"... No we don't know, we do know for sure that they're not in-game right now (or at least not discovered, let's stay open ^^ ).

My apologies if I sounded harsh at first, I guess I'm really sick of seeing topics about those "so-far-book-only" clans. And nobody commented on the points I raise, such as the books being available and readable by a very few margin of the playerbase.

 

[William J Smith]

My view on the whole "what if the thargoids" matter is this

The lore says we encountered them, and had a war against them

We lost a fair number of encounters

We made a virus designed to kill them and used it.

Now they are back, its only safe to assume that these new ones are immune as we are covered in mycoid virus due to us investigating the crashed ships and ex-thargoid bases
That means they can adapt, they are killing ships carrying their tech, and meta alloys. which means they want it for a reason.
Also the barnacles are growing and changing..... what they will ultimatly grow into is unknown..

All this points to them building new hive ships and knowing what we did to the last ones we found.which means its either revenge they want or to steer clear of us and carrying on fleeing from whatever they were fleeing from when they encountered humanity.

Either way.... humanity has a problem .. we barely held our own against the thargoids the first time, if they are fleeing something its 10 times worse than they are.....

In conclusion, the superpowers have always known this... hence the route into the rift being charted, sector 70 locked off and being built up, and dare I say Colonia



And on a personal note... I just wish Fdev would push the story along with a spectacular event fairly soon

Bill

<<listening to gotterdammerung ... an ominous sign... :x

 

[CMDR MRMAURICE]

Speculating and wondering is fine, saying "They're Osresians because they scoop up pods" is not ^^ There are no Osresians or Klaxians in the game right now, period. Only Thargoids. Making a theory making reference to them is ok, but implying they are in game or that their very in-game existence is real is wrong.

Just look at the number of threads stating "I won't fight Oresrians" or such, so many people are making this a proved fact that it has to stop. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully open to discussing Thargoids motives and goals, as long as it is stated that it is pure theory and that it has no ties to what we currently see in-game. As I said, it is a waste of time, but so is playing videogames, and I do that daily

I remember the debates around UAs, it was fun mostly because people came up with crazy theories always based on what can be found in-game. And none of those were more or less valid than the Thargoid one at the time. Here, it is like everyone has proof that O and K are clearly having an impact on the game but when it is asked the answer is "read the books". No crazy theory, no brilliant idea that will never see completion, just everyone shouting Oresrians and that's it. I'm still not even sure on the spelling since there are many variations on these threads.

There are many possibilities, but nobody explores them because "we know they're O and K"... No we don't know, we do know for sure that they're not in-game right now (or at least not discovered, let's stay open ^^ ).

My apologies if I sounded harsh at first, I guess I'm really sick of seeing topics about those "so-far-book-only" clans. And nobody commented on the points I raise, such as the books being available and readable by a very few margin of the playerbase.

I accept your point (not that you need my approval ), it makes sense. I think there is more to come and we will soon find out if the O's and K's do exist. The books (Reclamation and Premonition) are a really good read and add some depth, something people complain the game doesn't have ( I'm not one of them btw ). I've read them both and haven't really took from them and brought it to the game, except the events that did happen, the book has alot of real ingame events. That's why people have taken it on board as gospel, however (sorry to repeat), Drew said don't take everything that is said as the truth.

I too didn't mean to sound harsh

 

[Magichp]

I accept your point (not that you need my approval ), it makes sense. I think there is more to come and we will soon find out if the O's and K's do exist. The books (Reclamation and Premonition) are a really good read and add some depth, something people complain the game doesn't have ( I'm not one of them btw ). I've read them both and haven't really took from them and brought it to the game, except the events that did happen, the book has alot of real ingame events. That's why people have taken it on board as gospel, however (sorry to repeat), Drew said don't take everything that is said as the truth.

I too didn't mean to sound harsh

Approval is always welcome ^^ It seems FD is preparing us for the unveiling of hive ships, and I hope that it will kickstart the current sluggish and very light story. I'm also thinking that it won't come anytime soon, sadly. I do agree that the game and its universe have quite the depth, but the "thargoid arc" is really lacking for now.

I've been tempted to read the books a few times, but I guess it will only be if the O and K are added in-game, to bring my lore up to date

Maybe we should get back on topic, sorry again CMDR Quantis Trap...

As to what the Thargoids have been doing since they reappeared, it would seem logical that they're trying to do the same thing we did to them, a modified mycoid or something alike... But I think that would be logical for human minds, and we're dealing with insectoids (is it stated anywhere by the way? Or is it just an assumption from how they look and how their society seem to be, with "hive" ships and such?), so it might be something else... Why not some hybridation? They've been pushed back by a supposedly inferior alien race, so they try to take the best of the two species to make a new Human-Thargoid kind. (this reminds me of Stargate Atlantis, strangely ^^)
Hum that may be still too human-like, it would probably have to be something that doesn't make sense for us at first...

 

[Quantis Trap]

... I didn't heard about that "Hive massacre", care to explain or point me in the right direction?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjlGh4ZA5H8

Jameson was told that the mycoid virus was only goining to attack the Thargoid Ships hyper drive and not the Thargoids. After he fired he learned that it killed thousands or millions of Thargoids too. "Hive massacre" is my term for what Jameson said happened in the recording from the Cobra.

 

[Louis Calvert]

I'll be intentionally vague about details in this next couple sentences so as to not give away spoilers in a big way.


This pertains to Elite Dangerous Lore (not the old lore) and what we now know about the two "dynasties" of Thargoids (Oresrians and Klaxians), INRA, the mycoid virus, Jameson's crashed Cobra and the hive massacre.


The hive massacre may explain more why the Thargoids have been tiptoeing around instead of making an all out attack.


In game, all Thargoids we encounter are busying themselves kidnapping humans in escape pods. We make the logical assumption that the same Thargoids just attacked the ships before swiping the humans though we've never seen that happen. What is the motivation of these Thargoids when they attack the ships and swipe humans?

Are all the Thargoids unified and swiping humans as lab rats to make a revenge virus? Humans are spread out and not as vulnerable as a hive but, so maybe they need a hole bunch of humans to inject back into the population before they pull the trigger?


On the other hand, could it be that the more aggressive Klaxian Thargoids are making a virus, but the more peaceful Oresrian Thargoids, are swiping humans as lab rats to make a cure?


Just some ideas I'm having.


Enjoy

I think you raise some interesting points.

There's a LOT of strange things with the "Thargoid" situation for you to consider too:

- No "Survivors" from ANY escape pod has publicly spoken about the ordeal - why not? (except for 1 Commander submitted local Galnet story right at the start, which we can discount since it's not generated by Fdev)
- Thargoids know where human space is (they attacked before), yet current Thargoid behaviour suggests they don't (hyperdictions are slowly inching towards the bubble as though they're slowly working out where we live).
- Thargoids can speak to humans (it's an extensive part of OotD), and yet these Thargoids have shown no ability/willingness to do so, for some reason.
- The Probes "speak" in Morse Code?!?!.
- The "bases" on the planet show detailed maps and signals to find other Thargoids bases as a default programmed action - what kind of crazy system is this?
- We have never, ever (even once) seen a Thargoid ship attacking ANYTHING other than our own ships in certain reactive situations - (namely, when we get too close or steal Thargoid stuff or carry Guardian stuff, or attack them first.) Yet we're told and lead to infer that they are apparently attacking thousands of ships in and around the Pleiades.
- We see NHSS 5/6 USS sites that have no Thargoid ships, but do contain Thargoid items and escape pods. What no-one has yet managed to explain is if the flower ships are attacking these ships then why they're leaving some sites without collecting the stuff they ALWAYS collect. Or, someone/thing else is doing the attacking, and the flower ships are showing up later and cleaning up. Now, the latter doesn't mean it's not thargoids - but the majority of people just assume that it must be Thargoids - yet the evidence is entirely circumstantial.
- Thargoids have a strong aversion/hatred to Guardian technology, evidence before we used it as weapons, implying prior contact at least 150+ years ago.

Keep asking questions and coming up with ideas!

 

[n34257]

Either way.... humanity has a problem .. we barely held our own against the thargoids the first time, if they are fleeing something its 10 times worse than they are.....

This is my theory - remember that quote during the early days of the Formidine Rift mystery, something along the lines of "...there are far worse things out there than Thargoids"?

At some point, I suspect we're going to need the help of the Thargoids (or whichever faction will help us, if indeed they have factions). I also suspect they might hold a grudge, which is why I've held back on any non-peaceful interactions with them.

I just wish the story would get going. Aside from bringing some new ships into the equation, the Thargoids seem to have basically just been hanging around for the last few weeks, not doing anything new or even advancing.

 

[Ra1derz Dr1verz]

The Thargoids can only be introduced once.

This is an event they can't take lightly nor should we. Try to immerse yourself in the world of these people. The Empire and Federation are now constantly on the border of the bubble fighting Thargoids, holding them back from advancing. And the Thargoids are advancing into our space one system at a time. Think of real life wars, districts don't get taken over in a day, the fighting is long and drawn out.

To all the people complaining that the Thargoid story is not moving quick enough, tell me how you would feel if it took a week to discover the JJ ship, and then a week after that to discover the Hive ship, and then have completely finished the Thargoid story in the space of a month or two? A legendary enemy of humans who brought us to our knees once before, and they're gone just like that?

I understand the frustration of lack of content, and that the stories we here in Galnet should be shown to us in gameplay, show us a fleet of thargoids chewing up a Fed/Imp fleet. We'd like to be part of that battle, especially if it's an ongoing war like they claim. However do not under any circumstances allow the Thargoids to lose in a matter of days. They're being strategic. They have numbers they can throw out at us, why risk the big ships yet. Humanity is evolving our ships too, with weapons. But weapons take time to research and create. This is a war, it will last.

The Thargoids can only be introduced once, they can't be wasted. Their story is one that's spanned hundreds of years in game and 30 years in real life. I'm excited for the conclusion but honestly I think it's going to continue until either the end of this year or all the way up to Q1 2018. (Thargoid conclusion and subsequent update to The Guardians storyline. Perhaps a mix-match of the two?)


Also, on a side note, concerning the forum's inclusion of the Os and Ks, I think everyone on this forum knows full well that they're all just speculating and we honestly have no real idea of what might happen. To have to end every post with something like: "Ps. I'm just speculating guys, it's all just theory" is a little bit of a buzzkill and everyone on here already kind of knows that. I think if you come to the user-submitted forums for your exclusive canonn lore, then you're maybe not making the best choice.

 

[Louis Calvert]

Also, on a side note, concerning the forum's inclusion of the Os and Ks, I think everyone on this forum knows full well that they're all just speculating and we honestly have no real idea of what might happen. To have to end every post with something like: "Ps. I'm just speculating guys, it's all just theory" is a little bit of a buzzkill and everyone on here already kind of knows that. I think if you come to the user-submitted forums for your exclusive canonn lore, then you're maybe not making the best choice.

Rep for that.

 

[ebbrell]

Ilove the idea of them some how using powerplay , this way they could expand their systems. We would have a continual battle front to keep the thargoids from taking over completely.

We could wing up in fleets to fight their fleets

 

[Ra1derz Dr1verz]

Ilove the idea of them some how using powerplay, this way they could expand their systems. We would have a continual battle front to keep the thargoids from taking over completely.

To see a faster moving Powerplay system against a common enemy would be really interesting, and infact they may already have this planned, however to show the Thargoids territory on the map is a pretty big story change, for us to know their entire territory as opposed to these current instances and effectively isolated systems.
Maybe once we get far enough into the story this will roll out and it would be like a mix between powerplay and a community goal, in that the systems that were given the most assistance in killing the Goid threat will be the strongest and will stay in our hands/stop the Thargoids edging into our territory.
The only problem there is that unless FDev are willing to give up the bubble to the Goids completely, and perform a mass exodus in the game to Colonia until we can get our homeworlds back, the dynamic boder shifting would have a hard-coded limit to where it can go. The story can either be linear and pre-coded or dynamic and change with our efforts.

Also to show the Goids exact borders would be very mysterious along with Moribus' other strange findings... *tin-foil hattery intensifies*

 

[Magichp]

Also, on a side note, concerning the forum's inclusion of the Os and Ks, I think everyone on this forum knows full well that they're all just speculating and we honestly have no real idea of what might happen. To have to end every post with something like: "Ps. I'm just speculating guys, it's all just theory" is a little bit of a buzzkill and everyone on here already kind of knows that. I think if you come to the user-submitted forums for your exclusive canonn lore, then you're maybe not making the best choice.

That's wishful thinking, but sadly that's not true. Many people, especially those reading just a few posts rather than full threads, are considering in-game O and K as established facts, and that's precisely why I started firing on sight on every new thread doing so. If it was considered theory, I wouldn't mind, as it is exactly that, but then people start speaking of the ongoing klaxxian war that is happening right before our eyes... When it is actually just themselves forcing a story on unrelated events as of now.

They don't have to end with " just theory lol" but I am asking that they don't start with "O and K are in game as we can see", because that one is false right now.

There are a bit less of those threads lately, I don't know if my actions are part of it or if the idea just started to fade away.

"My exclusive Canonn lore"? That sounds like you have an issue with Canonn or its members, or I'm just reading it wrong.
I am affiliated with it, but that's just one of my many hats. If they are in need, I'll probably help, and I may or may not take part in some of their research, but that's it, I don't "root" for Canonn or anything.

I do care for in-game established lore though, and O and K are completely absent from it. That is my main point, and always has been.

 

[Louis Calvert]

That's wishful thinking, but sadly that's not true. Many people, especially those reading just a few posts rather than full threads, are considering in-game O and K as established facts, and that's precisely why I started firing on sight on every new thread doing so. If it was considered theory, I wouldn't mind, as it is exactly that, but then people start speaking of the ongoing klaxxian war that is happening right before our eyes... When it is actually just themselves forcing a story on unrelated events as of now.

They don't have to end with " just theory lol" but I am asking that they don't start with "O and K are in game as we can see", because that one is false right now.

I do care for in-game established lore though, and O and K are completely absent from it. That is my main point, and always has been.

I know we've had this discussion before, but I just want to stress again, that Oresrians and Klaxians are established ED Lore and are 100% present in game (we just don't know where, which and how yet). You are incorrect in claiming they are not facts, and you're actively spreading misinformation by saying they aren't.

https://youtu.be/O6z5OK8J5pg?list=PL7glm5rbPHKway8jUwKEw6MeWjC4voHD4&t=463

7:40, MB talks about Thargoids. If you watch this whole 6-episode series (which won't take long since they're only about 10 mins each) you'll see MB himself say that the novels (and the RPG) are Lore and that Fdev works very closely with the novel writers to create the Lore of ED - actually as you'll see, the process is two-way, with the novel writers helping to flesh out parts of the game lore.

at 8:17: "...with the first batch of fiction people are working on at the moment you'll start to learn some of the secrets of the Thargoids, and they'll certainly be present in the game when it starts but they'll very much be a background encounter...". So this is MB confirming that the novels reveal some of the secrets of the Thargoids.

So, while I agree that until things appear in game we can't be sure which things are Oresrian and which Klaxian, the fact of Oresrian and Klaxians existing as subsets of the generic term Thargoids is 100% definitely, unequivocally, without question, Lore. It's actually that what we've previously called Thargoids are Oresrians, they were the ones Humanity has encountered before.

We don't currently know whether we're seeing Oresrians now, or whether we're seeing Klaxians now - we don't know what Klaxians look like, and even if they're actually Thargoids in the same sense as the Oresrians (they might be Oresrian AI gone rogue for all we know! but contextually the Klaxians seem to be just a faction much like the Empire is to the Federation). We also don't know if they're real in terms of it might just be a giant lie - but that doesn't alter the fact that the Thargoids being called Oresrians is Lore, factual in the game, and they claim to be in a civil war with the Klaxians.

 

[Magichp]

I know we've had this discussion before, but I just want to stress again, that Oresrians and Klaxians are established ED Lore and are 100% present in game (we just don't know where, which and how yet). You are incorrect in claiming they are not facts, and you're actively spreading misinformation by saying they aren't.

No, you're doing it again..... They are indeed in lore, but they are only in lore so far. You say they are ingame? Then show us a screenshot talking about them, I only see thargoids in-game, no clans. You're mistaking a theory for facts again. You don't even know if the O an K in novels are still existing from what you told me, their war could have ended by now. But I'm the one spreading misinformation now?!?

We can end these discussion easily, show me where the O and K are stated IN-GAME and voila ^^ Except you can't, since they are only Thargoids with no distinct group right now.


I agree, both exist in lore, but so far the lore hasn't catch up with the game, has no effect on the game, and is not even mentionned by the game. Why cramming a story you already know on a mystery that could be much bigger and unrelated? You have no proof, only supposition, but you consider it as facts AGAIN

We have to stop having these. Please show me in-game O and K, at least I'll finally know how they are spelled.

Edit: I just realized you kinda confirmed what I said in my previous post

Edit2: Also, I think we need a Thargoids facts vs theory kind of thread, we have to stop hijacking every thread we're both in ^^Being disrespectful to each other and Topic creators won't get us far.

 

[Louis Calvert]

No, you're doing it again..... They are indeed in lore, but they are only in lore so far. You say they are ingame? Then show us a screenshot talking about them, I only see thargoids in-game, no clans. You're mistaking a theory for facts again. You don't even know if the O an K in novels are still existing from what you told me, their war could have ended by now. But I'm the one spreading misinformation now?!?

We can end these discussion easily, show me where the O and K are stated IN-GAME and voila ^^ Except you can't, since they are only Thargoids with no distinct group right now.


I agree, both exist in lore, but so far the lore hasn't catch up with the game, has no effect on the game, and is not even mentionned by the game. Why cramming a story you already know on a mystery that could be much bigger and unrelated? You have no proof, only supposition, but you consider it as facts AGAIN

We have to stop having these. Please show me in-game O and K, at least I'll finally know how they are spelled.

Edit: I just realized you kinda confirmed what I said in my previous post

Edit2: Also, I think we need a Thargoids facts vs theory kind of thread, we have to stop hijacking every thread we're both in ^^Being disrespectful to each other and Topic creators won't get us far.

I think I see the problem (maybe?)

In some other games and fiction media "on screen" is the only canon and unless explicitly stated, anything else isn't. So you're waiting until things appear in game for this reason.

However, in the case of ED, that's incorrect - There's just "ED Lore" which applies equally to the official novels, the game, Galnet, EDRPG, and anything else Fdev officially put out or create unless they say otherwise. As I said, MB confirmed this in those videos I linked, it's been confirmed several times since too. While I'm totally sure that anything in-game trumps anything not-in-game, that doesn't mean that things not-yet-seen in-game but are explored in detail in other media aren't fact.