What is the motivation to join open play?

[Rob_the_Sparky]

Why do these threads always get so far off topic so the original point of the topic is long forgotten in pages of "the way I play is better than yours" argument?
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I, like the OP, liked meeting true pirates. In open in the early game I met several true pirates (including encounters with CODE) and never met gankers despite lots of warnings on the forums. I wish this were still the case but recently I have only met gankers at CGs and no real pirates. Therefore I really have no reason to play in OPEN, where is the fun in a combat ship killing a trader/multi-role ship with little (usually trash talk) to no interaction? Back then high waking was still present and logging out was even easier so hard to blame the game mechanics. For some reason I continue to use open but have given up on CGs, this way I do not meet pirates or gankers.

 

[Mengy]

Why do these threads always get so far off topic so the original point of the topic is long forgotten in pages of "the way I play is better than yours" argument?
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I, like the OP, liked meeting true pirates. In open in the early game I met several true pirates (including encounters with CODE) and never met gankers despite lots of warnings on the forums. I wish this were still the case but recently I have only met gankers at CGs and no real pirates. Therefore I really have no reason to play in OPEN, where is the fun in a combat ship killing a trader/multi-role ship with little (usually trash talk) to no interaction? Back then high waking was still present and logging out was even easier so hard to blame the game mechanics. For some reason I continue to use open but have given up on CGs, this way I do not meet pirates or gankers.

Good point. Back on topic, I made a post in another thread but it's also relevant here, so this is my thinking on how we could motivate players back into open:

Basically there needs to be a difference between being wanted and being a straight up murderer of innocents. Pirates are getting new tools in 2.1 to help them out, but without accompanying changes to the crime and punishment system they will barely get used anyway. It really needs to be implemented like this:

Pirates - Pirates can simply demand cargo at the barrel of a gun, but if the victim flees then pirates need to have tools that can disable the ship and steal their cargo without destroying said victim. 2.1 is adding stuff like FSD disabling mines and weapons that keep a ship from jumping plus weapons to help strip the shields without destroying the ship, these coupled with hatch breakers should be enough to allow the pirate to steal some cargo before the victim gets away. The important part here is the victim gets away. Pirates should not be killing victims, just plundering them!!! The fear for the victims should be losing their precious cargo, but NOT losing their lives or their ships. Pirates of old rarely killed their victims because they wanted to be able to plunder them again some day...

Murderers - Bounty hunting is an acceptable profession in Elite, the hunting of wanted commanders, BUT killing innocent law abiding commanders NEEDS to have a huge penalty attached to it. I'm talking game changing for the murderer: huge bounties that are difficult and time consuming to remove, banned from law abiding stations so that the murderer can only do business with pirate bases or possibly some independents, and a system needs to accompany this that advertises to the galaxy where these murderers have been spotted and how much their heads are worth, this would allow player bounty hunters to hunt them down and seek justice. Outright murder should be a choice commanders can make, but it needs to be a choice not made lightly nor without severe repercussions, just like in any civilized society. Currently Elite is even less civilized than the wild wild west frontier was, and people are hiding in solo while the crazies run rampant because of it. And everyone in the game is suffering because of it to, including the actual pirates. The only commanders who aren't suffering....are the griefers.

 

[Bieltan]

To answer the initial OP - I like the tangible sense of danger. Seeing another player always makes me wary. I havent bumped heads often though. I did have to repeatedly assure a pair of CMDRs on a trade route that I wasnt hostile, but then they had gotten on the wrong side of the local player faction, so they were pretty damn jumpy.

 

[boringnick]

I wanted a true offline game in addition to the online one, completely free from an online/server/drm requirement. The day they have removed it, they should have removed "solo" as well and make this game a pure online experience and focus on that.

Solo is a very poor bandaid for the disappointed offliners and nothing more. It's very a stupid mechanic. I get "offline", but I don't get this gimped DRMed "solo mode". And its proponents sound highly paranoid to me ("I don't want ANY contact whatsoever" - yeah, turn off chat, problem solved).

Reasons:

Even if they would remove offline AND reworked the P2P architecture to a server-based one, you would still have enough freedom from any players if you truly wish due the gargantuan size of the gaming world and the tough policing in the core worlds (whenever they implement that). Eve-like blockades and choke points would still be almost impossible. "Being left alone" is the main reason for solo mode, right? The game world is able to provide exactly this without any mode-separation in the first place.

I mean, really. Explain to me how goon-squad could own and hold a 400 billion galaxy? Unless every single human on earth would get a PC and join them day and night.

The main problem is not even solo mode as such, solo-mode is an excuse for FDEV to be lazy: Why are human player killers "griefers", yet AI pirates are not? With a human, you could at least argue, the AI "pirates" kill without any reason (they shatter the lore illusion far more than human players). The main difference is that the AI sucks. AI pirates should be as deadly as the human ones.

The defense against AI and human "griefers" should be tough police force in the core sectors. in FFE, Sol-Barnard's Star was care-free, yet Phekda more dangerous than everything ED has to offer. Again, FDEV are either unable or too lazy to make Sol, Achenar and its surroundings a fortress, and they keep solo as a band-aid and as an excuse. Sol being as dangerous as Phekda shatters world-building to a great extend.

Solo mode is an enabler for FDEV laziness and its removal would probably speed up the repair of some of ED's broken mechanics.

 

[Sandmann]

With the current implimentation you'd not have the dynamic economy (such as it is) or updates to the galaxy with new stations, disabled bases, etc with an offline mode. If you bought all the gold out of a station it'd stay sold out, if a new station was built you wouldn't get it, etc. You'd also lose missions and the ability to sell galactic data, since these both operate from the servers, and of course CQC, galnet, CG's etc. Basically you'd lose anything that's not locally generated on your machine... and that includes NPC's, USS's etc as these are injected into your game, not generated. It'd take a HUGE rewrite and require you to run a much more powerful computer to have it all done locally.

Either way, that's a dead issue now and pursuing it is not only derailing this thread but also flogging a dead horse.

 

[Vorxian]

I wanted a true offline game in addition to the online one, completely free from an online/server/drm requirement. The day they have removed it, they should have removed "solo" as well and make this game a pure online experience and focus on that.

Solo is a very poor bandaid for the disappointed offliners and nothing more. It's very a stupid mechanic. I get "offline", but I don't get this gimped DRMed "solo mode". And its proponents sound highly paranoid to me ("I don't want ANY contact whatsoever" - yeah, turn off chat, problem solved).

I'd be quite happy for DF to scrap solo and group, if OPEN had a no pvp flag to enable / disable. It would basically allow folks to see you, but not have any 'in game' physical interaction whatsoever. Ofc you could still message etc, but you can also incorporate a 'block everyone, other than friends' setting. eg, the no PvP flag in GTA

 

[Dinbar]

I play on Mobius, mostly doing CG's nowadays. It's nice talking to people while docking at the stations and in SC without them acting as you have described. Open is a turkey shoot. Until they fix that, I'll stay where I am.

So, to answer you question. No motivation for me.

This is the same for me. Been ganked too many times for no good reason, not even RP, just people being "£!"$". Mobius is better for that reason.

 

[Vorxian]

Quite possibly the title of the thread should be: What is the motivation to stay in Private / Group?

The resounding answer would be something along the lines of : In real life, I would not deliberately throw myself under a train for excitement. Ergo, to stay out of OPEN is to choose not to throw one's self under said train.

Personal experience, if I wanted a glass-jar PvP combat pinata, I'd play EVE. I played it for two years, but now play ED for the exact opposites of what EVE is and stands for.

OPEN brings me nearer to the 'EVE' experience.

 

[Nim Rodel]

Quite possibly the title of the thread should be: What is the motivation to stay in Private / Group?

The resounding answer would be something along the lines of : In real life, I would not deliberately throw myself under a train for excitement. Ergo, to stay out of OPEN is to choose not to throw one's self under said train.

Personal experience, if I wanted a glass-jar PvP combat pinata, I'd play EVE. I played it for two years, but now play ED for the exact opposites of what EVE is and stands for.

OPEN brings me nearer to the 'EVE' experience.

Your analogy is pretty terrible, but I respect the fact that the increased danger of Open does not excite you.

Nim

 

[Lave Trader]

Quite possibly the title of the thread should be: What is the motivation to stay in Private / Group?

The resounding answer would be something along the lines of : In real life, I would not deliberately throw myself under a train for excitement. Ergo, to stay out of OPEN is to choose not to throw one's self under said train.

Personal experience, if I wanted a glass-jar PvP combat pinata, I'd play EVE. I played it for two years, but now play ED for the exact opposites of what EVE is and stands for.

OPEN brings me nearer to the 'EVE' experience.

OP Here. Ha ha, while I get the funny point of your post my subject was deliberately chosen. I genuinely wanted to hear from people playing Open to see if I was missing the point. Having read 27 pages, turns out I'm not... but I have learned a great deal of ideas of how things could be better.

Here's ultimately how I feel...

While I agree strongly with the points about human interaction being better than AI, the most depressing, oft-repeated piece of advice was (I paraphrase) "keep away from CGs in open if you don't want to meet griefers".... i mean, it's a community goal and people who play open suggest we stay away from it. Crazy. A community goal should surely be a place that condenses players into a single system, who might otherwise never bump into each other in the incredible universe FD have created, with the end result being the best experience Open has to offer... trade, combat, bounty hunting, pirating in one place.... The fact that CG's turn into a seal-clubbing-fest that even the proponents of Open suggest people stay away from merely exposes the flaws in the current open mode.

 

[Vorxian]

Your analogy is pretty terrible, but I respect the fact that the increased danger of Open does not excite you.

Nim

Bah! I have never been a pro at analogies (tbh I quite suck at it ) but you can label it 'turkey shoot' or 'seal clubbing' if preferential.

Even the latest talk of "warp scramblers" in Elite Dangerous kinda makes cringe.

...turn into a darn seal clubbin' arena, with out of control loonies armed with ship disabling gizmos- mallets malleting folk because they can and it's even easier..

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

OP Here. Ha ha, while I get the funny point of your post my subject was deliberately chosen. I genuinely wanted to hear from people playing Open to see if I was missing the point. Having read 27 pages, turns out I'm not... but I have learned a great deal of ideas of how things could be better.

Here's ultimately how I feel...

While I agree strongly with the points about human interaction being better than AI, the most depressing, oft-repeated piece of advice was (I paraphrase) "keep away from CGs in open if you don't want to meet griefers".... i mean, it's a community goal and people who play open suggest we stay away from it. Crazy. A community goal should surely be a place that condenses players into a single system, who might otherwise never bump into each other in the incredible universe FD have created, with the end result being the best experience Open has to offer... trade, combat, bounty hunting, pirating in one place.... The fact that CG's turn into a seal-clubbing-fest that even the proponents of Open suggest people stay away from merely exposes the flaws in the current open mode.

repped for being a gent.

Problem is wholly that a minority has most likely turned the ears off of folks that did try OPEN, and were utterly put off.

I'd like OPEN to work, but you give kids a sand pit to play in, and SOMEONE will slap another kid in the face with a spade, and it becomes a lonely place. The kid will then moan he has no one else to slap in the face with said spade, and claims that he's making 'content' with clever use of the tools at hand.

There! another bad analogy for Nim

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

I wanted a true offline game in addition to the online one, completely free from an online/server/drm requirement. The day they have removed it, they should have removed "solo" as well and make this game a pure online experience and focus on that.

Solo is a very poor bandaid for the disappointed offliners and nothing more. It's very a stupid mechanic. I get "offline", but I don't get this gimped DRMed "solo mode". And its proponents sound highly paranoid to me ("I don't want ANY contact whatsoever" - yeah, turn off chat, problem solved).

Reasons:

Even if they would remove offline AND reworked the P2P architecture to a server-based one, you would still have enough freedom from any players if you truly wish due the gargantuan size of the gaming world and the tough policing in the core worlds (whenever they implement that). Eve-like blockades and choke points would still be almost impossible. "Being left alone" is the main reason for solo mode, right? The game world is able to provide exactly this without any mode-separation in the first place.

I mean, really. Explain to me how goon-squad could own and hold a 400 billion galaxy? Unless every single human on earth would get a PC and join them day and night.

The main problem is not even solo mode as such, solo-mode is an excuse for FDEV to be lazy: Why are human player killers "griefers", yet AI pirates are not? With a human, you could at least argue, the AI "pirates" kill without any reason (they shatter the lore illusion far more than human players). The main difference is that the AI sucks. AI pirates should be as deadly as the human ones.

The defense against AI and human "griefers" should be tough police force in the core sectors. in FFE, Sol-Barnard's Star was care-free, yet Phekda more dangerous than everything ED has to offer. Again, FDEV are either unable or too lazy to make Sol, Achenar and its surroundings a fortress, and they keep solo as a band-aid and as an excuse. Sol being as dangerous as Phekda shatters world-building to a great extend.

Solo mode is an enabler for FDEV laziness and its removal would probably speed up the repair of some of ED's broken mechanics.

So, people who don't want to deal with other people should be forced into solo. You can still be interdicted and attacked by another player if you disable chat. For the people wanting a solo game, this has now ruined their experience.