What is the purpose of restricting cargo storage in shipyards?

I've been playing for a while now. I cannot for the life of me fathom why when we switch ships that cargo has to go with.

Today, I sold void opals for a pittance just so I could switch to another ship I have that has no cargo racks. A few days ago, I had to dispose of a ton of gold I use as pirate bait for the same reason.

If I place a ship into storage, why can't the cargo contained within that ship stay put?

I don't empty the trunk of my car every time I want to drive the wife's car...
 
The game has an issue because it keeps trying to balance somewhere between sim and traditional gameplay with odd balance decisions. Personally, I wish it would make a jump to full sim which would bring plenty of logical changes.
 
Simple. Gameplay reasons. If it was as you suggest, people would abuse ships as artificial cargo space. Boils down to the answer: Because ED is an MMO. As a reminder, ED is only partly a simulation. For the most part, gameplay trumps realism.
And what having some storage space would achieve?? At the end of the day you can have limited amount of ships. Even if you kit them out all for cargo only it is still limited amount of space... I agree with OP. This limitation is plain and simple stupid...
 
I don't understand what the issue is "abusing ships as artificial cargo space". So what? If I can put "X" into my hold and keep it, how is that abuse?

You're still limited as to the actual cargo space you own within those ships. By extension, I shouldn't be able to store modules then either.

Conversely, players can store scads of stuff on FC. So what's the difference?

I don't accept having to live with a poor quality of life issue because of "gameplay".
 
Simple. Gameplay reasons. If it was as you suggest, people would abuse ships as artificial cargo space. Boils down to the answer: Because ED is an MMO. As a reminder, ED is only partly a simulation. For the most part, gameplay trumps realism.
This is the reason but you can't help but think it became obsolete with carriers, which allow massive commodity storage.

It's either fdev never intended storage for game play reasons but that's now changed or they did intend it but just decided to make it impossible until carriers came out.

I find the latter theory hard to believe. I just think the original motivation has been obliterated now. Might as well allow moderately low storage for non carrier owners (up to 800t max, cannot be transferred, can only be loaded to a ship or destroyed - remotely destroyed is allowed). The sole purpose for the storage is to allow a ship's worth of cargo to be temporarily held whilst you do something else (primarily switch ships). Buying a carrier gives you the "premium" option.

Given we have carriers, I just don't buy that reason any longer. I'll add that I always supported it before carriers, by the way. It made enough sense to me then.

Just not now. Now it's just annoying for no obvious benefit. Carriers have subverted that reason and now make the lack of any storage a QoL issue as opposed to "game play".
 
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Might as well allow moderately low storage for non carrier owners (up to 800t max, cannot be transferred, can only be loaded to a ship or destroyed - remotely destroyed is allowed). The sole purpose for the storage is to allow a ship's worth of cargo to be temporarily held whilst you do something else (primarily switch ships). Buying a carrier gives you the "premium" option.

Exactly this, thank you!
 
There's a good chance it's really a database limitation, like why we have specific caps on module storage, why we can only buy carrier items in packs and why carrier commodity storage is 'ok', because it's using the existing framework of station markets rather than adding new lines to a stored ship. It might seem like a simple thing to add but it might involve some deeper changes.

People used to insist no cargo storage was a restriction to stop large scale BGS manipulation but now many thousands of tons are stored/dumped in carriers and it doesn't really make much difference to system stability.
 
You can squeeze so much extra module storage out of the shipyard. Makes no sense that in the age of fleet carriers we can't squeeze cargo out of it either. Gonna assume there's some hard-coded shenanigans they can't easily change.

Personally, I hope that someday modules and commodities will fit in the same place - ship cargo holds, FC storages and a potential station storage that could replace the module one.
 
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And what having some storage space would achieve?? At the end of the day you can have limited amount of ships. Even if you kit them out all for cargo only it is still limited amount of space... I agree with OP. This limitation is plain and simple stupid...

There are exploits that can be achieved with this mechanic.

For instance putting a dozen T9 Heavies in storage with full cargo while waiting for a particular systems state to appear so you can use them to try and swing the system to your advantage.

There are disadvantages, currently you can sell ships remotely and even when you die to raise money to pay insurance if you are daring enough to fly without rebuy, what happens if you leave one or two things in these ships? Can't sell them because they are being used as cargo storage?

What about ship transfer? Does a ship with cargo on board be restricted and can't be transferred? If that was allowed it would give people the ability to do high level missions with zero risk, stack missions to endless levels using stored T9's and then using ship transfer to move all the ships with mission goods to the destination and swap backwards and forwards to complete missions. But of course restricting ships with cargo from being transferred would lead to complaints about not being able to transfer ships because they accidentally left just 1 ton of gold bait on board

It's not just a matter of making it happen, there are changes that would need to be made across the game for situations and exploits that probably haven't even been thought of, personally a better solution to me would be temporary storage large enough to hold the goods in your ship if the one you are swapping to doesn't have cargo racks installed to give you the opportunity to put some in. The goods in temporary storage would of course be sold at galactic average if you were to leave them behind at the station.

Like it or not the entire galaxy has been designed with no in ship station storage in mind and changing that would require some very large changes across the missions and mechanics of the game so it's probably not going to happen in a hurry.
 
The "realism" argument. I'm sure players would appreciate being charged rental for ship storage. Fines for storing hazardous material in their ships. Thieves breaking into their storage and stealing their T9 full of void opals that they just left lying around. Holds full of slaves, meat or other perishables expiring (and then being charged more for cleanup or maybe fined for murder). That's realism. 😛
 
There is sure a lot of "deepthink" opinion posted here about (IMO) a relatively simple issue.

Without writing a wall of text to respond to the various points of view, let me ask you all this: Have any of these things some of you suggested may occur, happened with the release of FC? IMO, no.

So therefore, once again, what is the big deal in allowing us to keep whatever we happen to have in our hold (barring technical limitations), secure inside the ship until such time as we dispose of it when we change ships?????
 
There is sure a lot of "deepthink" opinion posted here about (IMO) a relatively simple issue.

Without writing a wall of text to respond to the various points of view, let me ask you all this: Have any of these things some of you suggested may occur, happened with the release of FC? IMO, no.

So therefore, once again, what is the big deal in allowing us to keep whatever we happen to have in our hold (barring technical limitations), secure inside the ship until such time as we dispose of it when we change ships?????

Well yes, people are doing it all the time, but at the moment it's restricted to FC owners, I have seen various complaints about people doing this sort of thing, but if you don't look for something you won't find it. It's also the case that you can't transfer mission cargo to an FC so that restricts some exploits but the ability to fill an FC with goods in demand and turn a system state still exists.
 
Storing cargo with ships leads to lots of implications:
  • extra coding to allow storing ships with cargo
  • extra database storage and extra processing work to keep track of it (that is indefinitely - no subs, people come and go but their ships stay as long there is an account)
  • then you allow loaded ships to be transferred? this might lead to extra issues if yes, if no, this leads to extra coding to put in the restrictions and the cases they apply to
  • carriers allow storage, but not for everything, they are coded specifically for that and not at last they cost a ton - so yea, if you want personal storage it's an incentive to get one
  • carriers allow storage, but limited storage. There is no limit on the ships we can store. Actually there is: 40 ships per station, about 60000 stations so? 2.4 millions ships? How much storage you want per ship? And no cost attached to it

And other reasons, some mentioned in this thread or in other threads.
Lots of implications and complications for no real gameplay benefit. Only some false QOL improvement that will actually make the game shallow instead of improving it.
 
And other reasons, some mentioned in this thread or in other threads.
Yeah, it takes 2 minutes thinking about it to start finding the issues

  • Rares trading is utterly broken - unless you exclude them like FC
  • PP is utterly broken - unless you exclude them like FC
  • Missions are utterly broken, unless you exclude them like FC

About the only think I would support staying with ships is Limpets, but even that has issues. Maybe add station storage - but then you have obvious discoverability issues (now where did I put those LTD 3 weeks ago?).
 
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There are exploits that can be achieved with this mechanic.

For instance putting a dozen T9 Heavies in storage with full cargo while waiting for a particular systems state to appear so you can use them to try and swing the system to your advantage.

There are disadvantages, currently you can sell ships remotely and even when you die to raise money to pay insurance if you are daring enough to fly without rebuy, what happens if you leave one or two things in these ships? Can't sell them because they are being used as cargo storage?

What about ship transfer? Does a ship with cargo on board be restricted and can't be transferred? If that was allowed it would give people the ability to do high level missions with zero risk, stack missions to endless levels using stored T9's and then using ship transfer to move all the ships with mission goods to the destination and swap backwards and forwards to complete missions. But of course restricting ships with cargo from being transferred would lead to complaints about not being able to transfer ships because they accidentally left just 1 ton of gold bait on board

It's not just a matter of making it happen, there are changes that would need to be made across the game for situations and exploits that probably haven't even been thought of, personally a better solution to me would be temporary storage large enough to hold the goods in your ship if the one you are swapping to doesn't have cargo racks installed to give you the opportunity to put some in. The goods in temporary storage would of course be sold at galactic average if you were to leave them behind at the station.

Like it or not the entire galaxy has been designed with no in ship station storage in mind and changing that would require some very large changes across the missions and mechanics of the game so it's probably not going to happen in a hurry.
None of this matters.

Carriers introduced several thousand tons of fully mobile storage. It's already in the game.

How could one exploit a single ship's worth of temporary storage more than carriers which allow thousands of tons?

Players asked for commodity storage for years to the responding chimes of everything you just said and up until carriers I'd have agreed with some of what you said because fdev made it clear storage wasn't a feature. Yet...

Here we are. You can throw out as many game play or technical nays as you like, none of them are demonstrably true any more.

Specifically, what's being asked for is the ability to switch between ships without being restricted by the cargo you have aboard at the time. Carriers allow this functionality and then some. I think it's fair to allow the simple qol change to enable limited (very limited, don't want to trigger the forum carrier owners!) storage of commodities at any station, including limpets, so switching between ships without selling goods (or worse, having to jettison them first at stations without a market) is possible.

Limited. Just like carriers are limited. Only more so. You cannot store rare goods and if you hit the global (just like 120 modules is global) 800t cap (let's just say 1000t) then that's it... No more storage for you. No transferring of your stored commodities. Unless you sell or destroy the stored goods (remote destruction is possible, remote selling is not - the function is there to allow one feature), you're stuck with that same small store and it'll never move unless you load it to your ship or destroy it.

The change would allow seamless switching of ships, even if the target ship needs to fit more cargo space first (which this would allow, just like carriers do), the option to change a ship temporarily to go do something emergent then return to continue carrying your cargo later (just like carriers let you do), the option to switch out modules to go do something emergent then return to continue carrying your cargo later (just like carriers let you do) and the ability to just store a limited supply of something precious that you just want to use later like modular terminals or a small haul of painite or stolen goods (just like carriers let you do now, only carriers let you store thousands of tons and move it about the galaxy too!)

Given carriers, the only logical reasons fdev can't do that now is lack of resource or priority. And that's fine.

Still, it's a potential improvement to the game with (given carriers) no demonstrable downside.

Unless you think carriers need to have commodity storage removed? Validate your position fully if it's truly your position. But you can no longer claim it as FDev's position because they changed that the day they decided carriers would allow mass commodity storage and mobility.
 
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Given that Fleet Carrier owners already effectively have such storage, which comes at a weekly upkeep cost, what I would do is allow players to rent warehouse space at starports and planetside bases, at a commensurate weekly upkeep for consistency (incl the more warehouses you rent, the more expenses you have to maintain that storage). This would enable cargo to be stored so a ship swap could take place, but as it would incur a cost, that cost would eat into the eventual profit margin (ie the longer you keep renting the storage space) when the cargo does end up being sold, thus preventing long term hoarding. Problem solved, and consistent with storage already available on Fleet Carriers.
 
Given that Fleet Carrier owners already effectively have such storage, which comes at a weekly upkeep cost, what I would do is allow players to rent warehouse space at starports and planetside bases, at a commensurate weekly upkeep for consistency (incl the more warehouses you rent, the more expenses you have to maintain that storage). This would enable cargo to be stored so a ship swap could take place, but as it would incur a cost, that cost would eat into the eventual profit margin (ie the longer you keep renting the storage space) when the cargo does end up being sold, thus preventing long term hoarding. Problem solved, and consistent with storage already available on Fleet Carriers.
I'm fine with this solution and having a cost is fine in theory and, whilst it's sort of consistent with carriers, it's not particularly consistent with ship and module storage.

Limiting the global volume is enough of a cost to keep storage in check. More so if there's no way to transfer it without using your own ship. Though allowing commodity transfers at a similar cost and time delay of modules and ships (where the cost is based on the value of the commodity, so expensive for high value stuff) would negate any potential abuse anyway so I'm not strictly certain that must be prohibited.

The weekly cost thing got thrown out every time this topic came up before carriers too. And shot down just as quickly.

I know no one loves the 120 module limit and it could (probably will) be increased and I'm sure the only reason it's not been done is due to the priority being too low (arguably, they need to make the ui way better to practically handle more, 120 is tedious enough with the current implementation).

But the commodity ui already exists. It's used by the carriers. Technically, everything has been done, tested and used live for months now. It's all there, just needs a global limit and a new ui button and of course all the server infrastructure behind it.

Adding weekly costs is OTT imo.

1000t globally limited storage is enough to obliterate one of the game's more annoying restrictions that can no longer be said to be in place due to "exploits".

Perhaps not high priority. It'll maybe never happen. But I think it should.

Edit : if fdev felt a cost was necessary, I'd not argue against it. The qol improvement would be worth it.
 
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