What weapons do Pirates need?

[GunnerBill]

All this talk of being a pirate/whats wrong with Piracy/ Piracy is dead in ED etc. got me thinking. I've always fancied being a Pirate (Ahhhahhhhrrrrrr and all that) but how would I outfit my ship?

So Cargo racks yes, Limpet things yes, FSDI - Check!, Shields etc. Of Course!!

But weapons??

Well your Pirate needs the ultimate sanction i.e. the Ability to destroy his prey. But in actuality that's really the last thing they want to do. What a Pirate needs is the ability to stop his prey from escaping for long enough for the piracy transaction to be completed.

We currently have the FSDI to start the process but that's where it all goes horribly wrong IMO. What happens when the mark decides not to play ball? The Pirate starts shooting and then when the shooting starts most of the weapons in ED at present seem to just destroy the ship before disabling it (or don't and it escapes).

What's need is some way to bring a ship to a halt without severely damaging it.

EMP pulse? Perhaps not even a hardpoint but an internal module. And perhaps it effects both ships, keeping both Pirate and "customer" in the same space for a specific period based on module class. The balance here is that the pirate is therefore as much trapped as the customer if the security forces decide to turn up. Traders can add shielding mods to their armour loadouts to reduce the amount of time the EMP effect lasts.

I don't want to add too much phoney balance but obviously there should be balance so this doesn't become just another tool of they-who-shall-not-be-named.

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TL;DR

Pirate weapon needed to temporarily disable ships during the "transaction".
Can't be OP though.
Discuss

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Edit:
My idea about the balance re trapping both parties has another caveat that C&P is fixed so the Police might actually show up, thus restricting this weapon to the less savoury parts of the galaxy, as it should. I would really like proper Piracy to flourish - there must be a way?

 

[Gully Foyle]

Shooting out my target's thrusters works well. As do hatchbreaker limpets.

 

[z993126]

Cannons, harpoons, and cutlasses, naturally.

And rum. Lots of rum.

 

[Masagmarod]

The most fearsome pirates use mining lasers.....

 

[goemon]

they are all already in the game.

base moduls: beams to strip shields, missiles to destroy thrusters, cannons to disable powerplants...

special effects: that disable FSD, that disable thrust, that kill shields...

powerplay weapons: that disable a FSD charge ...

why aren't they used? basically, because using them succesfully takes longer in most cases than highwaking - and much longer than a log out to menu for the trader.

so piracy comes down to a "show of force".

why isn't the game changed, so highwaking takes longer than using the weapons, or weapons do their magic faster? because the same weapons could be used outside piracy for destroying players ships without a chance for defense. etc. etc.

 

[Philip Coutts]

Big guns help. it's all about the threat really. Plasma or rails if you are good, they can very quickly strip shields

 

[[VR] Enexemander]

You just want weapons that do more damage to modules than to the hull. Cannons work great (not multis, actual cannons). Probably fantastic with high yield special but I haven't gotten to that yet (working on it)! Railguns are probably fantastic for this as well.

Here's the thing- if your target is running from you, then taking out the drives is easy. If they're turned toward you to fight, then taking out modules before hull is pretty much impossible. You have to hit the hitbox for the modules (maybe railguns can go all the way through?)

So if you expect your target to fight, maybe you want some missiles to blow out their weapons. If you think your targets will run, maybe you want some weapons to tear out modules quickly. Come to think of it, you probably want a missile rack with the drag munitions special so you can maneuver around your prey better and line up module shots.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Now that hatchbreakers bypass shields, technically you don't need *any* weapons.

But that's a bit boring, isn't it?

I find that cannons are good for taking out modules. Use multiple small ones, rather than bigger ones, because you don't want to wreck the hulls too much. You don't need to be cracking nuts with a sledgehammer, right?

In the next patch, trading ships are getting their hull strengths doubled, which will make it easier for us to disable them without destroying them! \o/

 

[StiTch]

Depends on whether you're going PvP or PvE.

PvE=let hatch breakers do the work. The rest is irrelevant.

PvP? Your main weapon is patience. Armed sufficiently with the stalwart patience required to deal with CLers and other "complications", discard any advice from someone telling you to shoot thrusters out. They clearly have not actually pirated - or thought that collecting cargo strewn across a couple kilometres is enjoyable. Choose simply whether, if a target gives you some sass, you wish to extract your cargo elegantly or eradicating the target. Elegantly, hatch breakers and the weapons to prevent your target escaping - say some rapid fire pulses and cannons to annihilate their FSD. Eradicating them? Trust some lazors to break through the trader shields and start flinging missiles at them. You'll find it surprisingly effective at getting your goods if they don't pull the plug the moment you interdict them.

 

[insanephoton]

I'll let Michael say it...
[video=youtube;8g_GeQR8fJo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g_GeQR8fJo[/video]

 

[GunnerBill]

they are all already in the game.

base moduls: beams to strip shields, missiles to destroy thrusters, cannons to disable powerplants...

special effects: that disable FSD, that disable thrust, that kill shields...

powerplay weapons: that disable a FSD charge ...

why aren't they used? basically, because using them succesfully takes longer in most cases than highwaking - and much longer than a log out to menu for the trader.

so piracy comes down to a "show of force".

why isn't the game changed, so highwaking takes longer than using the weapons, or weapons do their magic faster? because the same weapons could be used outside piracy for destroying players ships without a chance for defense. etc. etc.

You just want weapons that do more damage to modules than to the hull. Cannons work great (not multis, actual cannons). Probably fantastic with high yield special but I haven't gotten to that yet (working on it)! Railguns are probably fantastic for this as well.

Here's the thing- if your target is running from you, then taking out the drives is easy. If they're turned toward you to fight, then taking out modules before hull is pretty much impossible. You have to hit the hitbox for the modules (maybe railguns can go all the way through?)

So if you expect your target to fight, maybe you want some missiles to blow out their weapons. If you think your targets will run, maybe you want some weapons to tear out modules quickly. Come to think of it, you probably want a missile rack with the drag munitions special so you can maneuver around your prey better and line up module shots.

I must admit to a bit of ignorance then, I had assumed that inevitably all weapons in ED would do more damage to hull than modules. Resulting in a ship destruction before disabling it.

My experience with missiles is that they're very good against hardpoints but not so much on drives.

My idea about the balance re trapping both parties has another caveat that C&Pis fixed so the Police might actually show up, thus restricting this weapon to the less savoury parts of the galaxy, as it should.

 

[Mikey2305]

Thought from the title that this was a christmas cracker joke

 

[goemon]

My experience with missiles is that they're very good against hardpoints but not so much on drives.

if your target is running, it is the other way round. trusters are external moduls like hardpoints - hit them from behind, and the splash damage will take out thrusters fast (after shields are down). you need around 3-4 dumbfires or 5-6 seekers to take out class 6 thrusters ... double missile rack is your friend.

 

[Crash1099]

Hooks to attach to ships.....Joking wrong game.

 

[Jukelo]

Hooks to attach to ships.....Joking wrong game.

That would actually be the biggest QoL addition for pirates. Shooting out the thrusters of your quarry means a laborious 5 minutes flying in Fa Off slowly bumping the target back to a halt so that your limpets can do the work and cannisters dont depop once outside the 8km bubble.
Although my favorite addition would be ship-to-ship docking and direct transfer of cargo, which in the case of a target drifting away would require the pirate to match speed with it and slow its rotation to permit docking, but with the potential for stealing a lot more cargo to make up for the higher skill floor.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

they are all already in the game.

base moduls: beams to strip shields, missiles to destroy thrusters, cannons to disable powerplants...

special effects: that disable FSD, that disable thrust, that kill shields...

powerplay weapons: that disable a FSD charge ...

why aren't they used? basically, because using them succesfully takes longer in most cases than highwaking - and much longer than a log out to menu for the trader.

so piracy comes down to a "show of force".

why isn't the game changed, so highwaking takes longer than using the weapons, or weapons do their magic faster? because the same weapons could be used outside piracy for destroying players ships without a chance for defense. etc. etc.

The Rocket-Propelled FSD Disruptor would get a lot more use from Pirates if it wasn't a Power Play weapon. What's it take? Four weeks of kissing someone's seating muscle and surrendering your independence, thus limiting the regions you can move freely though without having to be concerned with someone going "Oh, an enemy ship, let's attack".

These would be better served if they were sold in Black Markets instead - and no, not the ones where you dispose of your ill-gotten gains, but black market outfitters.

Special Effects would be more popular too if they weren't dictated by a spin of the Wheel of Misfortune, or bought with Favors earned through dozens of spins of the Wheel.

As for disabling Power Plants... I know the how of it, but I blow up ships long before I blow up modules. I think I use too big of a gun. But I'm not a pirate. Never had any interest in bothering other people. I rather like blowing up pirates though.

 

[Sandmann]

All this talk of being a pirate/whats wrong with Piracy/ Piracy is dead in ED etc. got me thinking. I've always fancied being a Pirate (Ahhhahhhhrrrrrr and all that) but how would I outfit my ship?

Caveat: I've never engaged in piracy.

Right now pirates can be best related to muggers... they have the options to threaten to kill in the hopes the victim will give in (which gives them time to run away), or to beat them up and possibly kill them in the hopes that something will fall out that they can sell, or to "specialise" as a purse snatching mugger by using limpets (which I'm told are unreliable at best). I'd like to see piracy given options to make it more relatable to pick-pocketting.

As you suggest, first they need a method to stop the victim from fleeing...an EM Pulse might work... assuming it took maybe 60-90 seconds to charge and doing so disabled the pirates' weapons so it would make a poor pvp "insta-win". Perhaps some sort of electronic mass locking instead. Or an "energy net" that you could fire at the ship from close range which would allow you to overload their thrusters etc, requiring them to reboot before they could manouver? If you have 2 or 3 different methods with different side effects, and different defences that traders could also choose that would let traders have defences to some ut NOT ALL forms of attack. Engineers could harden trade ships against one of these methods at the cost of making it more vulnerable to the others too. At the same time trade ships - especially large ones - should be toughened up to turn them into tanks... slow and very difficult to destroy... instead of the bubbles they currently are.

You then need a better method of getting the goods. Right now the issue is that limpets only work on unshielded ships, meaning that the pirate must shoot out the shields first and possibly the shield generator. Once you've stopped the ship fleeing I'd like to see a minigame where the pirate could hack their victim's ship's computer, then either disable the shield generator (easier hacking option) and use the current limpets, or hack the cargo eject mechanism (much harder) and get a random selection of cargo. This of course would need a hacking module in your ship. Obviously you'd need to stay very close to your victim to hack them, but remain out of their weapons arcs. Again traders would need to have a possible way to defend... maybe a "firewall module" that would slow down your hacking module. Of course both hacking and firewall modules would have different classes with different weights and power requirements. And of course all this equipment could be modified and specialised by engineers. You could even make piracy equipment only available from a pirate engineer after gaining a certain degree of criminal reputation.

If the FSD various overload mechanisms and hacking modules were mounted in weapon slots this would encourage a real "pirate ship" build... fast, manouverable, lightly weaponed and shielded, with piracy equiment taking up much of the ship's systems and enough cargo space and fuel tanks to make it worthwhile. Of course the current methods would still be available, but this would encourage "real" piracy by making a real difference between the "muggers" and the "pickpockets".

 

[Ouberos]

I use 3 pulse on the front of my Python and one has the module malfunction Effect I think (forgot exactly it's the one that looks like lightning.)

I find that with correct early positioning onto a T7 I can drop their shields and shred the PP within a handful of shots. The PP usually goes off line with about 40/50% hull remaining. Then I drop behind the ship and empty it .

If it reboots I damage the drives with same but currently I'm struggling with this bit as the extra damage required has popped them. The new changes will likely help me out a lot.

I carry a brace of cannon as well for the more mobile targets. I haven't engineered these but probably should.

On my Cobra 3 I use a pair of fixed Plasma under the canopy for an Alpha strike one shot shield strip. Then I drop the PP with gimballed cannon from the wings. I haven't used this ship for a while so don't know how it would fair with the current situation. The Cobra isn't an ideal Pirate ship as it doesn't have enough modules but for hitting T6 around Nav Beacons it is a joy.

I've heard a lot of good things about the Cobra 4 regarding Piracy. The Adder also makes a surprisingly good entry level Pirate ship.

- - - Updated - - -

But that's a bit boring, isn't it? \o/

Yup! Talking of easy life:
I heard of one guy who hangs out at stations without....

Oh hang on, I'll drop that tip onto the Inara page!

 

[Britannkic]

Target the cargo hatch, the cargo just spills out

 

[Anopheles]

False flag Transponders.

"Good evening, officer...Oh God, oh God!'

Gravity Bombs that create a virtual station in the instance creating mass lock for everyone for 5km circular.