What went wrong with Elite Dangerous

[JuicerPrime]

If you feel you can be that cocky about it would you mind telling me something you can do in your 'conda or whatever you 'ground' for that you can't do in a much smaller ship?

The terrible thing? Absolutely nothing. Welcome to the wonderful world of ED ship design. On the other hand having a large, capable vessel to wander about the stars in while telling your own stories can help with the immersion a lot for some players. Not everyone wants to rock a Cobra or Asp forever, and if they don't? Welcome to the grind or get used to the idea of not seeing a decently-equipped large ship this side of 2017.

The content not being the type you like might indicate it's not the game for you, that doesn't make it wrong. There are huge swathes of games that I don't like - I don't play them. I want this freedom - it's why I like this game

Yes, the "this game might not be for you" meme. Will you be moving on to "it's a 10-year development plan, it's early days yet" next, or possibly "you just want a big red "I Win" button"? Because I'm pretty sure by this point I can quote chapter and verse on the standard forum arguments - both defending and attacking ED. If I sound bitter and worn here, put it down to fatigue from memetic overexposure.

 

[frostypaw]

The terrible thing? Absolutely nothing. Welcome to the wonderful world of ED ship design. On the other hand having a large, capable vessel to wander about the stars in while telling your own stories can help with the immersion a lot for some players. Not everyone wants to rock a Cobra or Asp forever, and if they don't? Welcome to the grind or get used to the idea of not seeing a decently-equipped large ship this side of 2017.

Hah. I'll let you know when I can afford one and whether I'm still having as much fun, I don't see any point in rushing - I'm not looking at the outside of the ship. But whatever floats your boat - it's been your choice there you see?

Yes, the "this game might not be for you" meme. Will you be moving on to "it's a 10-year development plan, it's early days yet" next, or possibly "you just want a big red "I Win" button"? Because I'm pretty sure by this point I can quote chapter and verse on the standard forum arguments - both defending and attacking ED. If I sound bitter and worn here, put it down to fatigue from memetic overexposure.

Oh I know and many of them are thoroughly over-repeated but sometimes it's because they're right! I haven't paid into SC, I won't touch EvE and I have low expectations of NMS, I hate all the Star Wars games and find X-Com dull, FTL tedious beyond belief..... that's just the way it is. I don't play those games, I don't go on their forums and try and make them change their games, I look at what they offer and decide if it's for me. It's not, this is. Why make this game like those and take that away from people who wanted something different?

 

[bitstorm]

No, he won't have the large fries, his cholesterol count is to high

Hey just to say, high cholesterol is a good thing! Every cell in your body needs the stuff, vital for good brain function.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Not everyone wants to rock a Cobra or Asp forever, and if they don't? Welcome to the grind or get used to the idea of not seeing a decently-equipped large ship this side of 2017.

What is wrong with wanting to fly a Cobra or an Asp? What is the lure of "large ships"? What do they do that a Cobra or an Asp or even a Sidewinder cannot? What benefit is there for a player to endure "grind" to get to a big ship?

 

[Calebe]

The simple answer nothing went wrong with Elite Dangerous, the game is still in development, and will be for many more years. They said since day one this is a game with 10 planned for expansions, and till all 10 are done the game is not completed as in not all features are in nor were expected to be in at thins time.
.
That is not to say people can't be critical over what is in and hoping for more (which is coming), or to say some bugs that they see shouldn't be fixed faster then they are. The simple truth is they are being fixed just not fast enough for some, and for others they are willing to wait to be able to play what is available now then not even have a game for years till it was 100% feature complete.
.
So the 3 options are
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1. Play it as it is and wait for the expansions and fixes with each new patch and seasonal upgrades.
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2. Moan and complain it isn't what you wanted yet, demand more, not willing to wait and be miserable, and make it known so you can make others miserable as well.
.
3. Quit and come back later to see if the later releases this year or the next transform the game to one you can support and still realize it has room to grow.
.
The constant threads of what is wrong, and I rage quit. The never ending this is the end of Elite gets old honestly over time. If you know anything about the development of the game and the way it was laid out, you would know and accept it was a 10 year plan, not a 1 year or 2 year plan. However to get the funding to make the game they are releasing it in stages a game you can actually play. Unlike others that has over 110,000,000 raised and is still a beta (oops sorry it is still an alpha test bed missing 99% of the promised features), that was a Kickstarter just before Elite Dangerous was a Kickstarter. The difference is huge this game is playable, fun, rewarding and not selling everything under the sun, you actually have to earn it in game.
.
Calebe

 

[JuicerPrime]

Hah. I'll let you know when I can afford one and whether I'm still having as much fun, I don't see any point in rushing - I'm not looking at the outside of the ship. But whatever floats your boat - it's been your choice there you see?

My floating boat is presently a Cobra IV, and is likely to remain so for a long, long time. Why I choose to subject myself to speeds which would shame an elderly snail I still don't really understand, but yes - that's my choice. You want a challenge (and have access to one - wish Frontier would drop the un-needed exclusivity and make it universal [blah] ) give it a whirl. On the other hand I'd like to see larger ships and modules in general price-fixed to make obtaining them less painful and grindy for players who do enjoy big ships, since they don't really offer much over their smaller counterparts. One of the other hard lessons in ED - grinding and saving for weeks or longer to buy your dream ship and finding that you just bought similar (or in some cases less) performance than your old ship.

Oh I know and many of them are thoroughly over-repeated but sometimes it's because they're right! I haven't paid into SC, I won't touch EvE and I have low expectations of NMS, I hate all the Star Wars games and find X-Com dull, FTL tedious beyond belief..... that's just the way it is. I don't play those games, I don't go on their forums and try and make them change their games, I look at what they offer and decide if it's for me. It's not, this is. Why make this game like those and take that away from people who wanted something different?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Elite become something else either - I'd just like to see it become richer and better at what it does. Current advantages with fixed and lessened disadvantages as it were, and for me grind is definitely one of the disadvantages. There's a few others. I won't go into them now >_>

As for those games you mentioned...you can criticise SC, EvE, NMS, Star Wars and even X-COM, but FTL? Them's fightin' words right there! :x

 

[Kewpa Eurus]

First off, the data is the data, you trying to make it show something to suit your desires is just . As a wise man said, 'there's lies, damned lies and statistics'. I pointed out what the data shows, you called it false, despite it not being false, again, trying to make it show what you want despite the reality being what it is.

You keep saying I don't like PvP, despite me saying I do. I've been doing online PvP game since Doom, I ran top teams in the leagues for many games over the years, been a top player myself, I love PvP in games designed for PvP. E: D isn't one of those, claiming otherwise simply shows a total lack of experience in PvP gaming. I didn't get E: D to do PvP, I knew it sucked for that before I got it, still not sure how people get the idea it's a PvP game, guess they just don't have much PvP gaming experience, only thing I can think of. First clue...Solo and Group modes...that doesn't give it away, well, nevermind.

As to Horizons being lackluster...since we've only gotten a very small part of the Horizons season, how can you make that call? That tells me all I need to know....

There are a LOT of things coming to E: D, I'm aware of what they are because I've read the KS and all the stuff since then, the stuff actually being stated as being IN, not the blue skying and what ifs, although some of that would be awesome. Storylines, already in the game world. Owning stuff, not happening, get over it. Controlling areas, not possible due to the modes, get over it. The modes, not being changed, part of the package from the inception, get over it. What's coming is what's coming, and it's pretty damn cool, essentially, it's Star Citizen on much more massive scale and with less socialization. FPS, walking around ships, walking around planets, atmospheric planets, alien life forms, hunting them, all that stuff, it's coming, it's part of the actual design plan. So I'm good with waiting for it and I'll judge it as it comes around, not before then, as that's just silly as hell to do. Law and Order system, something I've stated many times that FD need to fix, which they've said is coming this season, so I'll wait and see what happens on that side. I see no reason to keep demanding something that's not only been admitted by FD but also stated to be in this season's updates. But you keep on doing that, asking for the stuff that's slated for this season, show us how in the know you really are!




Sometimes, you gotta speak the language that people understand so they know what you are talking about. That's what made Carl Sagan so great, he could tell someone with a 3rd grade education how a black hole comes into existence and that person would understand it. Him and Darth Vader, pre-Return mind you and totally ignoring I-III, are my heroes... The stuff CryTek did for multiplayer...even for client auth, it's horrible. Took the head engineer over at PGI over 6 months to get that refactored, 18 months total to make it work mostly right..he's still working on that all the time. CIG is taking longer, but they've also changed their minds a few times on how to do it, and realized that they could do it so much better as they went along. Taking data that's 5MB and turning it into a 5kb chunk...that's good stuff man, I'm impressed. You been keeping up with it?

Not trying to skew that data to fit my argument at all. There's hard data and then there's interpretation of it. Do you think you are going to get more bang from your buck off of an 18 year old fan that will be buying for the next 40 years or a 50 year old who's going to be 90 the same time that 18 year old hits 58? As well as taking account how that 18 year will influence their children's game play. Again with the percentage difference being only 1% I'd bank on capturing an 18 year old fan who will be reaching the 35 year old demographic in 17 years old and buying games through out that whole time. Capture pre 18 and you can have them up to 35, the strongest demographic. 50+ is a not a demographic where buyers will grow as they age, but 18 below is one that will. Pretty simple logic...

As for all that I'm "demanding" you act like we want this NOW, within the next season. No, as stated in the thread by OP, there are glaring issues that have been around since launch. The fact that the same problems keep coming up is a problem itself...

Horizons have been lack luster THUS FAR...I've never played a game where I was able to see all the release has to offer in 1 night. If the launch was so lack luster, not having great expectations for the rest of the season is pretty fair.

Perhaps you are too black and white and can't see the grey...Which is why you can't interpret data properly and would have a company bank millions of dollars into selling video games to 50+ year olds because that demographic is stronger by 1%...

Again, you've already been caught out claiming something you are not while thumping your chest about 20 years of experience. (lol). This take it or leave it mentality is not something any company should be using that plan on selling a game for the next 10 years.

Trust me, I dig it. I've needed to dumb down a lot of things for the 1980's fans to understand that gaming standards have changed since then, yet they keep bashing their head against the wall. Potty training a child can be challenging depending on how willing that child is.

Like it or not the 50+ arn't going to support the development plan for the next 10 years on their own. You are going to need the cash flow from my demographic. Standing as strong as you are and telling us to like it or leave it is not helping you or FD out for the next 10 years. You are going to learn to give as well as take. If you've read anything in the post from the OP as well as some of my points, we want to give and take to create a game for EVERYONE to love, not just me, my demographic, and circle of friends. Reading your comments it seems that you want a game for you and just you and anyone who does not like it can leave it. Such a bad and basic attitude with millions on the line.

 

[JuicerPrime]

What is wrong with wanting to fly a Cobra or an Asp? What is the lure of "large ships"? What do they do that a Cobra or an Asp or even a Sidewinder cannot? What benefit is there for a player to endure "grind" to get to a big ship?

Wanting to fly a Cobra or Asp? Nothing. For the rest? I provided my opinion on this this in the same post you quoted from! Goddammit Asp

 

[Daffan]

Elite Dangerous is a MMO, just not the one some people where expecting, even tough it was pretty obvious from the start it wasn't going to be the same as other MMO's.

Except for the part where you watch Braben personally make 5-6 10+ minute videos on Youtube talking about the insane Background sim (???), mmo aspects, pirate bases (player run) and many other things promised.

oops.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Except for the part where you watch Braben personally make 5-6 10+ minute videos on Youtube talking about the insane Background sim (???), mmo aspects, pirate bases (player run) and many other things promised.

oops.

Would you please be so kind as to provide links? I know exactly what you are talking about, but some newer members may not. They need to see it for themselves and come to their own conclusions

 

[frostypaw]

As for those games you mentioned...you can criticise SC, EvE, NMS, Star Wars and even X-COM, but FTL? Them's fightin' words right there! :x

Hey nobody's perfect *shrug*

But seriously why the MkIV? I'm missing MkIII even with it's relatively shoddy view. No wait, back on topic stop enjoying the game, sorry

 

[Ginrikuzuma]

Yes, the "this game might not be for you" meme. Will you be moving on to "it's a 10-year development plan, it's early days yet" next, or possibly "you just want a big red "I Win" button"? Because I'm pretty sure by this point I can quote chapter and verse on the standard forum arguments - both defending and attacking ED. If I sound bitter and worn here, put it down to fatigue from memetic overexposure.

Except its not a meme, there are a lot of people that want to make the game something that it is not and I don't fault them, there aren't many modern space sim games out, sure we got a few down the pipeline (ex. NMS and SC) but prior to that I can't think of any recent space sim games. They are tackling the genre from different angles some people don't like the angle from which they are being approached and guess what, the game might not be for you.

This is a niche genre in the first place some are trying to be too inclusive (Elite is not innocent of this) and some of the people being lured in then turn around disappointed by it. Its a niche, its focused to specialize on a certain demographic and group. The genre is barely coming back into the limelight of course people are going to complain since the genre isn't being approached in an angle they want.
Its not like this is an FPS or an RPG. You don't like W or A game? That's fine there is also X/Y/Z and B/C/D games in those genres. Games W or A weren't meant to be for you.

Elite currently falls into this since there isn't much else in the market at the moment that is finished.*

You do just sound bitter and worn out here, I suggest you do like I did back in November. Leave, take a break stop playing the game for X amount of months then come back. I put 685 hours into the game from when I bought it back in June 16-17 of last year and played it (almost) daily up until the 7th of November last year when I grew bored and tired of it. I came back [almost] a month ago and I enjoy the game once more (I Just hit 1000 hours).

Hopefully by the time you come back, new content will grab your interest, if not at least perhaps you won't be as exhausted of the game by then. Worst case scenario from your perspective you probably would feel you stopped wasting your time for a bit.


*Its not finished obviously several seasons are down the line. Whether NMS and SC for example will be "finished" when they do finally come out or whether they too will expand after release much like ED is remains to be seen but at the moment its Elite or you wait on another space sim.



edit:

-snip-

Oh I know and many of them are thoroughly over-repeated but sometimes it's because they're right! I haven't paid into SC, I won't touch EvE and I have low expectations of NMS, I hate all the Star Wars games and find X-Com dull, FTL tedious beyond belief..... that's just the way it is. I don't play those games, I don't go on their forums and try and make them change their games, I look at what they offer and decide if it's for me. It's not, this is. Why make this game like those and take that away from people who wanted something different?

have my rep

I'd fight you on some of the Star Wars game, the X-com titles and I'd rebuttal your complaint of FTL with the fact it has a pause/play combat. Sure the game is designed to make you suffer through the RNG (didn't find that weapon you didn't like - tough, didn't find enough scrap or the random event you partook killed one of your best crew member - tough ) but its not tedious

 

[Cmdr Cheese Wedge]

Not trying to skew that data to fit my argument at all. There's hard data and then there's interpretation of it. Do you think you are going to get more bang from your buck off of an 18 year old fan that will be buying for the next 40 years or a 50 year old who's going to be 90 the same time that 18 year old hits 58? As well as taking account how that 18 year will influence their children's game play. Again with the percentage difference being only 1% I'd bank on capturing an 18 year old fan who will be reaching the 35 year old demographic in 17 years old and buying games through out that whole time. Capture pre 18 and you can have them up to 35, the strongest demographic. 50+ is a not a demographic where buyers will grow as they age, but 18 below is one that will. Pretty simple logic...

As for all that I'm "demanding" you act like we want this NOW, within the next season. No, as stated in the thread by OP, there are glaring issues that have been around since launch. The fact that the same problems keep coming up is a problem itself...

Horizons have been lack luster THUS FAR...I've never played a game where I was able to see all the release has to offer in 1 night. If the launch was so lack luster, not having great expectations for the rest of the season is pretty fair.

Perhaps you are too black and white and can't see the grey...Which is why you can't interpret data properly and would have a company bank millions of dollars into selling video games to 50+ year olds because that demographic is stronger by 1%...

Again, you've already been caught out claiming something you are not while thumping your chest about 20 years of experience. (lol). This take it or leave it mentality is not something any company should be using that plan on selling a game for the next 10 years.

Trust me, I dig it. I've needed to dumb down a lot of things for the 1980's fans to understand that gaming standards have changed since then, yet they keep bashing their head against the wall. Potty training a child can be challenging depending on how willing that child is.

Like it or not the 50+ arn't going to support the development plan for the next 10 years on their own. You are going to need the cash flow from my demographic. Standing as strong as you are and telling us to like it or leave it is not helping you or FD out for the next 10 years. You are going to learn to give as well as take. If you've read anything in the post from the OP as well as some of my points, we want to give and take to create a game for EVERYONE to love, not just me, my demographic, and circle of friends. Reading your comments it seems that you want a game for you and just you and anyone who does not like it can leave it. Such a bad and basic attitude with millions on the line.

Dude, No one cares what you think.
You don't like or enjoy the game I get that.
Uninstall it and move on, it's just a game.

 

[frostypaw]

have my rep

I'd fight you on some of the Star Wars game, the X-com titles and I'd rebuttal your complaint of FTL with the fact it has a pause/play combat. Sure the game is designed to make you suffer through the RNG (didn't find that weapon you didn't like - tough, didn't find enough scrap or the random event you partook killed one of your best crew member - tough ) but its not tedious

If we didn't enjoy such variety we wouldn't each get what we want(ish)!

Heck I still wish FA-off flew like Frontier and a few other minor gripes but I'm not blind to what we've got.

 

[DaveB]

Dude, No one cares what you think.
You don't like or enjoy the game I get that.
Uninstall it and move on, it's just a game.

No. Kewpa is making some serious points. He's not just saying "I don't like the game" - There's just some aspects about ED that he hasn't considered - or that he's thought of an answer to but not thought that fully through. It's worse than the n00b flight-learning curve, honestly, getting your head around what actually works in ED as opposed to nearly every other multiplayer game out there. He's not like some forum posters who don't listen, he's listening and thinking about it, so cut him some slack.

 

[Kristov]

Not trying to skew that data to fit my argument at all. There's hard data and then there's interpretation of it. Do you think you are going to get more bang from your buck off of an 18 year old fan that will be buying for the next 40 years or a 50 year old who's going to be 90 the same time that 18 year old hits 58? As well as taking account how that 18 year will influence their children's game play. Again with the percentage difference being only 1% I'd bank on capturing an 18 year old fan who will be reaching the 35 year old demographic in 17 years old and buying games through out that whole time. Capture pre 18 and you can have them up to 35, the strongest demographic. 50+ is a not a demographic where buyers will grow as they age, but 18 below is one that will. Pretty simple logic...

As for all that I'm "demanding" you act like we want this NOW, within the next season. No, as stated in the thread by OP, there are glaring issues that have been around since launch. The fact that the same problems keep coming up is a problem itself...

Horizons have been lack luster THUS FAR...I've never played a game where I was able to see all the release has to offer in 1 night. If the launch was so lack luster, not having great expectations for the rest of the season is pretty fair.

Perhaps you are too black and white and can't see the grey...Which is why you can't interpret data properly and would have a company bank millions of dollars into selling video games to 50+ year olds because that demographic is stronger by 1%...

Again, you've already been caught out claiming something you are not while thumping your chest about 20 years of experience. (lol). This take it or leave it mentality is not something any company should be using that plan on selling a game for the next 10 years.

Trust me, I dig it. I've needed to dumb down a lot of things for the 1980's fans to understand that gaming standards have changed since then, yet they keep bashing their head against the wall. Potty training a child can be challenging depending on how willing that child is.

Like it or not the 50+ arn't going to support the development plan for the next 10 years on their own. You are going to need the cash flow from my demographic. Standing as strong as you are and telling us to like it or leave it is not helping you or FD out for the next 10 years. You are going to learn to give as well as take. If you've read anything in the post from the OP as well as some of my points, we want to give and take to create a game for EVERYONE to love, not just me, my demographic, and circle of friends. Reading your comments it seems that you want a game for you and just you and anyone who does not like it can leave it. Such a bad and basic attitude with millions on the line.

Ok, the epeen waving was bad enough, now it's just plain insults?

Data is data, and you clearly don't know what that data means. Average gamer is a 35 yr old male, average female gamer is 43, it's all in that pdf you found and didn't bother to actually read very well. The average gamer has been a 35 yr old male for decades by the way, you can google that if you don't believe me, but working in the industry I learned that over 20 years ago, and it's stayed pretty constant, the only true growth has been in 2 demographics, female gamers and older, 35+, gamers. Which follows since 35 yr old males were the majority in the 80s and 90s and they've gotten older..and continue to play video games and tend to stick with franchises they like.

Kids, yeah, not a good market for longevity, they are too fickle. Me, raised a few of them, and have grandkids in that teenage bracket now, my grandson plays E: D, I got him into it, but he's more likely to play Minecraft or one of the many CoD titles we have or any one of the hundreds of other games we have for the 360 and XBOne, he's pretty typical for a teenage boy, plays whatever is cool, if it's not cool, well, he doesn't play it much. 4 months after getting E: D, he's still in his newbie Viper, probably be in that for another year, if he keeps playing that is. Not enough action in the game for him, he's into PvP, and that's not E: D by any means, he came to that conclusion on his own, 12 yr old kid figured that out...why do adults have such a hard time understanding it?

And maybe you missed this, hell there's no maybe about it, but the dumbing down of games has been for the YOUNGER people, not us older folks. We're used to games that had manuals that were half an inch thick and you actually had to read them to be able to play the game. You've probably never seen one that was more than a few pages, and half of those were legal . Probably think those old games were all of 5 minutes long too huh? I remember the original Battlefield 1942 game, the campaign, took longer to do a single front than the entire BF3 and BF4 and Hardline campaigns combined. Yeah, they've really been dumbing down games for us older gamers....

And maybe you missed something, but this game, it's being made by the same guy who made the original in 84, and it's being made the way HE wants it to be made, we're funding HIS dream game, not yours, not mine, his, David Braben's, a fact he's thanked us for many times. Guess you missed that huh? So, when we tell you, this game isn't for you, you should probably find something else to play, we do mean exactly that, because what you keep asking for is in direct opposition to what David Braben has stated he's making. Chris Roberts is doing the exact same thing with Star Citizen as it happens, and he's also thanks us backers many times for allowing him the chance to make HIS dream game the way he wants to make it. Funny thing about us folks who played the games David and Chris made all those years ago...we're still giving them our money.

What games are you still giving your money..oh..right..you're playing this....so much for brand or maker loyalty in teens huh?

 

[Stargrease]

"What went wrong with Elite Dangerous"...

Nothing, it's a great game and hopefully will continue to grow.

What went wrong is that gamers today are not like they were 30 years ago. There are some of the same mentality and many of us from those times still around and enjoying Elite for what it is. The trouble is the majority are console fed knuckle draggers who have to be constantly fed entertainment because they are incapable of enjoying something for what it is and unable to use their imaginations to aid their enjoyment.

They want everything to be buffed as large/fast/quick as possible so that they can rank up/earn credits fast.

They want everything made as simple as possible because things with thought, procedure and reasoning behind them are beyond their grasp

They want instant this, instant that. They complain because they have to put time in to get the rewards, they complain because things don't work as they want them to work (usually a single button press). They complain because things go wrong when it's clearly their own dumb fault.

They care nothing for depth, feeling nor intention of a game development, it's just another game they want to end game. They just want to be able to instantly jump somewhere to play with their like minded buddies smashing things up, sod everyone else and the game they want, just make it another arcade shoot up.

Shut up and stop trying to ruin my game...

 

[Jenner]

I think this thread has run it's course. It's been nothing but sniping, unflattering generalizations, and general unpleasantness for awhile now. Some people like the game, some people don't. I think maybe more specific threads with very directed discussions may be more productive. As is this one has been all over the map.

Closed for rule 18 (circular discussions) and rules 1 and 2 (abusive posts, trolling).