Whats the beef with RNG?

[Flavourless]

Surely people realise that RNG is essential to all games that have an element of PvE?
Without it you would always get the same boring predictable activity with the same outcome. No gameplay whatsoever.

I love RNG. It is what makes computers able to be an viable opponent for a human.

So much whinge. (

 

[Jukelo]

RNG generally takes control away from the player. Which is a bad thing. If it's random, your skill has no influence, and generally speaking players want to be rewarded for their skill/knowledge.
Good games find the right balance between skill-based activities and pure die roll. Frontier hasn't reached the right balance yet.

 

[Rubellen]

Best of luck Commander with the Lave Brandy RNGods

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yep. People seem to want something that is totally predictable and boring. What's funny is that if FDev implemented what they want, they will likely whine that they have got all their mods too quickly and have nothing to do.

 

[YinYin]

essential to all games that have an element of PvE?
Without it you would always get the same boring predictable activity with the same outcome. No gameplay whatsoever.

I love RNG. It is what makes computers able to be an viable opponent for a human

That would only be true if you yourself were always playing exactly the same like a robot.
Randomness itself isn't really the core beef with anything here - but the perception of not giving the player enough agency.

 

[DefiledDragon]

It depends what the RNG is being applied to and good RNG is never truly random, it's RNG within parameters appropriate to the player(s) in question. RNG in encounters should balance the encounter so it's challenging, but fair at the same time. RNG for rewards should take into account the players current status and the amount of effort/time required to earn it.

Being frustrated by "inappropriate" RNG is a fair criticism of any game that implements RNG without considering the players current status or the amount of effort put in when generating encounters and rewards.

 

[Ulfar]

The RNG is a cheap way of dragging out the content especially when it has been coupled with a mind numbing boring ways of gathering materials which are also linked to their own RNG. All of which breaks immersion. As a millionaire many times over pilot, if I need a ton of sulfur or widget x I am not going to spend hours finding it I would either buy it from a supplier/producer or create a mission for someone else to provide said item.

Then couple that with the lack of storage for some of the items which count as cargo, but we have storage for others which doesn't count as cargo. Some of these items when you eject can fit in your space suit some can't, your bounties data also doesn't fit in the space suit pockets.

Sorry bad design all round.

I would rather have kept the RNG but modified it as follows. You could approach an engineer who would offer to tune your module with a wide variances in the results with no materials, they could have then given you a list of optional items for you to collect that would have lowered the decreased the unpredictability of the result. Each item gathered and its quality could affect a different part of the item, take fallout 4's weapon crafting system different parts of the weapon give different stats and abilities to the weapon. So if you took the time to obtain all of the items you would be almost guaranteed an item to fit your needs.

With this I would have implemented storage and a player market for items.

FDEV seem to be hell bent on not giving players any sort of player to player interaction apart from pew pew. The players should be given the tools so that their interactions are the content.

 

[DefiledDragon]

The players should be given the tools so that their interactions are the content.

That will never happen because "solo mode". Players who don't play open, and there are many, would be excluded from that content. The backers wanted a single player game. FD wanted to make a multiplayer game. They compromised and gave us a solo mode, thus massively restricting the amount of content within the main game that can be dedicated to multiplayer. Because of this, nothing that is a critical part of the core gameplay will ever require interaction with other players. It's by design and I don't think it will ever change.

 

[Jukelo]

Yep. People seem to want something that is totally predictable and boring. What's funny is that if FDev implemented what they want, they will likely whine that they have got all their mods too quickly and have nothing to do.

I fail to see how your strawman argument is going to improve the atmosphere of the forums. That's a detestable attitude and I hope you stop doing it.

Just so we're clear here, just because you want a game based on mainly skill doesn't mean it has to be entirely predictable, and it certainly has nothing to do with how you pace it which is an entirely different issue.

 

[h347h]

RNG generally takes control away from the player. Which is a bad thing.

Okay lets just go ahead and say it isn't bad, but more that some people don't enjoy the lack of control. RNG has actually helped the gaming industry out significantly and isn't bad' Just not every one has the taste for it.

 

[Ulfar]

I am one of those players I play in Solo or Mobius but this is in large part because the game does not have the multiplayer tools that others have.

A big one would be an effective law enforcement in high security areas with it being less so in lower security areas. This is also coupled to the fact that the security of the bubble is logically unbalanced where you can have an anarchy system right next to a major powers high population high tech world. This is just not how it would be.

How about effective and easy communication between players, this is hindering people being able to effectively play a pirate. If we had voice comms this would be great, or even if you don't want direct voice comms canned phrases that can be sent.

These are just two amongst many things that could be done even with P2P architecture.

 

[crushdepth]

Let me buy materials. Make them expensive, I don't mind, but let me pay in cash that I earned playing the game in a way I actually enjoyed. Just don't make sift through mission boards 30 times and still haven't seen the thing I need.

 

[Ghural]

Surely people realise that RNG is essential to all games that have an element of PvE?
Without it you would always get the same boring predictable activity with the same outcome. No gameplay whatsoever.

I love RNG. It is what makes computers able to be an viable opponent for a human.

So much whinge. (

People are idiots. RNG isnt completely random, it is random within a narrow range.

Its funny how in other MMOs players whinge about how crafting involves creating endless identical items, and how they want to opportunity to create something truly unique.

Now in Elite where every attempt results in a slightly different outcome they are whinging about not being able to create endless identical items.

 

[Strangepork]

Is it because it's cheap and maybe lacks any real depth and creativity as a type of game development?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The beef with RNG:

I'm an explorer. I want to get unusual ships to gain some LYs to make them viable travelers. Orca for instance.

To get the FSD 5 upgrade I'm scanning high wakes. Scanned 50 so far. Got 0 of the type of data I need. RNG making sure I do a completely mindless task over and over again. No pointers for me to scan the wake of a certain type of ship or such things. All high wakes are equally probable to find me the wake I need.

Then when I got the 2 I need, I need to go through an RNG again to see if I have to do this all over again.

I don't mind hunting for a long time for the stuff that I need, but I do mind when the hunting consists of: fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan,fly up to 18 km to high wake, scan.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I fail to see how your strawman argument is going to improve the atmosphere of the forums. That's a detestable attitude and I hope you stop doing it.

Just so we're clear here, just because you want a game based on mainly skill doesn't mean it has to be entirely predictable, and it certainly has nothing to do with how you pace it which is an entirely different issue.

Stop doing what. You know what. I have zero problems with the RNG as I actually play the game and don't concentrate on one thing. I am not being negative. The only people that are, are the people that whine that it's not what they want. I like the engineers just as they are. Can they be improved, yes.

They way I will be using the engineers, is something to dabble in from time to time.

Engineers come out and some people seem to find it impossible to do any other thing but the engineers. People will grind and will suffer from disappointment if that is all they do. There are years to do your engineering mods. What is the rush.

What do you mean, I want the game skill based? What has that got to do with RNG?

 

[Tanith Low]

Surely people realise that RNG is essential to all games that have an element of PvE?
Without it you would always get the same boring predictable activity with the same outcome. No gameplay whatsoever.

I love RNG. It is what makes computers able to be an viable opponent for a human.

So much whinge. (

Short version: Good RNG throws un-predictable challenges at you, and then gives you different rewards based on how you overcame those challenges.
Bad RNG makes you perform the same repetitive task, then gives you a random result based on a coin toss.

Or to use your phrasing.

Surely the OP realises that giving players the feeling that the rewards they receive are based on their own actions and aren't a hand out from RNGesus is essential to every game. It is the very definition of "Rewarding Gameplay".
With too much RNG you take away the players feeling that they have any control over the outcome. By giving out random rewards for random actions there cease to be any gameplay and it becomes purely a slot machine.

I hate it when developers use RNG as a substitute for well thought out game play.



Do you see how one of those was arguing a point and the other was a just being condescending to someone who disagrees with you?

 

[Dathayn]

i don't mind the RNG much at all. Already have a couple of g5 upgrades and the rest are in the g3 range. Making a big difference to returning my vette to beta glory.

The only issue I really see is the sirius bug and drop rates for certain data mats that are mostly needed for the weapon mods I want. With missions, I start in systems I am ally with, leads to another system where usually I find another mat reward mission or 2 I wanna do and so on. Had great luck just yesterday.

To me, RNG is like a master chest dropping in everquest 2. Big thrill when you see it, then when you open it sometimes your eyes get big, sometimes you sigh, but there's always another chest, always another chance.

Some used to say there wasn't enough to do in ED. Seriously, I'm busy as hades with engineers and i love it

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

RNG generally takes control away from the player. Which is a bad thing. If it's random, your skill has no influence, and generally speaking players want to be rewarded for their skill/knowledge.
Good games find the right balance between skill-based activities and pure die roll. Frontier hasn't reached the right balance yet.

So good question - do all activities in game need to be based on skill? I don't think so. You don't have to have control over everything in the game.

 

[nothingfaced]

I thought that there were plenty of opinion posts on what player beef is with FDs dependency upon random number generation to help inform the OP?