What's the deal with cockpit size?

[Polygonal Spaceship]

Okay... possibly a very dumb question, but:

I've watched a lot of ED videos, and I do mean a lot, in preparation for getting into the game, and something strikes me about ship design: the cockpits are generally very large. I don't just mean the spacious command decks of the larger vessels, but even ships like the Cobra Mk III seem to have flight decks which are larger than they need to be; they aren't an efficient use of space!

Big open spaces like those make little enough sense in and of themselves - sure, life support tech and structural engineering must be good enough that nobody is worried about such large spaces, or the burden they place on the life support systems, but they are massively larger than they need to be. Think of all the cargo that could be carried in the unused space on the average Imperial Cutter's flight deck, for instance, and compare it to the three-person (captain, first officer, flight engineer) flight decks of contemporary airliners. And one of those big, blocky cargo haulers... you could probably fit a small Lancashire two-up, two-down terraced house under that cockpit glass!

Yes, I get that it's fiction, and not necessarily "crunchy" hard sf, and that there's probably some artistic licence in there... but seriously, what gives?

(I admit, I'm not well up on games tech, and half expecting someone to say "it's to do with the POV camera, it wouldn't work in a smaller cockpit"...)

 

[Ian Skippy]

Okay... possibly a very dumb question, but:

I've watched a lot of ED videos, and I do mean a lot, in preparation for getting into the game, and something strikes me about ship design: the cockpits are generally very large. I don't just mean the spacious command decks of the larger vessels, but even ships like the Cobra Mk III seem to have flight decks which are larger than they need to be; they aren't an efficient use of space!

Big open spaces like those make little enough sense in and of themselves - sure, life support tech and structural engineering must be good enough that nobody is worried about such large spaces, or the burden they place on the life support systems, but they are massively larger than they need to be. Think of all the cargo that could be carried in the unused space on the average Imperial Cutter's flight deck, for instance, and compare it to the three-person (captain, first officer, flight engineer) flight decks of contemporary airliners. And one of those big, blocky cargo haulers... you could probably fit a small Lancashire two-up, two-down terraced house under that cockpit glass!

Yes, I get that it's fiction, and not necessarily "crunchy" hard sf, and that there's probably some artistic licence in there... but seriously, what gives?

(I admit, I'm not well up on games tech, and half expecting someone to say "it's to do with the POV camera, it wouldn't work in a smaller cockpit"...)

People are expected to live in a Cobra for months if needed without docking. Dont see them as trucks.

 

[Ian Phillips]

Talk to Harry Potter ( the real one, not the ED one ) and ask him how living in a cupboard under the stairs was.

 

[Gamatech]

You have to remember that all but the smallest of ships are supposed to be run by 2 or 3 people, and that's only including those positioned on the bridge. It's just that the different operating stations are never manned. Why? Only FDEV can answer that.

 

[Deleted member 110222]

People are expected to live in a Cobra for months if needed without docking. Dont see them as trucks.

This. A ship in Elite isn't just a vehicle... It's a home.

 

[Sylveria]

Somehow, I can see this thread turning into another "space legs or atmospheric landings" debate rather quickly...

Ships that travel great distances must be sized for utilitarian purposes, but also in terms of convenience for crew(s).

In this game, however, it's mainly meant as a tool for relative aesthetic immersion... as there's no real reason why you'd need to see the rest of a cockpit, you can't utilize anything outside of the helm and gun controls at present moment.

Hopefully in the future, this will change.

 

[shreddog]

I've always thought the outside view doesn't match the actual inside size of the cockpit.
If you look at the Eagle from an angle outside (so you can't see through the glass), it looks like a fighter jet type craft, and you expect a small cramped cockpit where you sit inside a wall of instruments surrounding you. But then when you actually see through the glass you see this tiny seat placed upon a rather empty floor. It looks really corny.

I can undestand large cockpits on Anacondas and such. They're supposed to be starship bridges. But the smaller crafts really doesn't seem appropriate scaled.

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

Talk to Harry Potter ( the real one, not the ED one ) and ask him how living in a cupboard under the stairs was.

There's a Harry Potter running around in ED? I wouldn't have expected it, but... well I can't say I'm that surprised. There's probably a Mal Reynolds, a couple of dozen The Doctors, and at least one each of Han Solo, Flash Gordon, and Buck Rogers. I wonder how many CMDR Jamesons there are?

People are expected to live in a Cobra for months if needed without docking. Dont see them as trucks.

This. A ship in Elite isn't just a vehicle... It's a home.

I guess I do see those ships as trucks sometimes, kind of in the same way some truck drivers have a bunk in the back of the cabin. But then those trucks do get personalised like homes...

Not sure how I feel about the prospect of spending months in a Cobra (or Sidewinder) without docking, but yeah, I kind of get it. And I guess, game technical reasons aside, human psychology demands a bit of physical room.

A few years ago, in one of those shared virtual world things (the closest I've come to ED's environment, despite it lacking the gaming elements, and the closest I've come to multiplayer gaming since I quit MUDding 15 or so years ago), I had my own TARDIS - and that evolved into a home. Full of memories and souvenirs. When I was feeling really depressed, sometimes I'd load it up and just sit around the console room, enjoying the space and the tranquility (and the white noise), and sometimes I'd run around like a lunatic flicking switches. Maybe that's what my Cobra - when I get one - will be... interstellar camper van!

(Heck, maybe by then, I'll have written the idea into my fanfic...)

 

[Quester91]

Why do spaceships have windshields and not cameras/sensors?
Why our highly sophisticated spaceships don't have simple altitude acceleration indicators? Or basic velocity vectors?
Why does the entire ship power management being handled by a single window on the right screen with some ticks?
Why there's a self destruct procedure button right next to a basic reboot system?

Simple answer is because Elite is not a simulator, but a space game with hints here and there from other genres.

 

[Ian Phillips]

There are several Reynolds, dozens of variations of Han Solo's and loads of CMDR Jamesons.

Of course there is only ONE Doctor.

 

[GunnerBill]

All of the above but my immediate thoughts were that it's more of a Bridge than a Cockpit.

 

[Schmack]

Wait until you experience them in VR. It's like you're flying a stadium.

But the immersion is there, as you imagine that back there somewhere is the sleeping quarters, the mess hall, medical, engineering, all that. Like someone already said, the debate will spring up regarding space legs vs atmospheric landings, however once you experience the game in VR, you at least have some form of space legs (if your room is setup for it) and you can see that the ship was intended to serve as a deep space vessel with all the amenities of home.

This is why I don't subscribe to the notion that rebuys are the only price to pay for reckless engagement or piloting, at least not from a "mursion" perspective. Who would want to lose a ship like that?

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

Somehow, I can see this thread turning into another "space legs or atmospheric landings" debate rather quickly...

I think we've had quite enough of those, and it honestly isn't my intention to start one (so anyone who's feeling tempted, please don't)! Just genuinely curious, because the cockpit sizes generally do look reasonable from the pilot's seat, but - especially from the outside - some of them are just excessively large, like the cargo ship I mentioned. By comparison, though... the ship interiors in Star Trek Online seem massively oversized, too. So I'm not trying to nitpick, just curious as to any underlying aesthetic/artistic/technical reasons. Who knows, maybe "space legs" is the answer - to facilitate player movement and a third-person camera?

But some interesting things to think on, so thanks, everyone.

 

[EDanaII]

People are expected to live in a Cobra for months if needed without docking. Dont see them as trucks.

This. A ship in Elite isn't just a vehicle... It's a home.

Except that all that space is better utilized for cabin, bathroom and all... Which I expect these ships to have, so why not shrink the cockpit and utilize the added space to living quarters?

That said, it just a game and I'm fine with the over-sized cockpits, but they are over-sized...

 

[Mxpower76]

You seem to be in your ship for months by yourself so I need to see space garbage start building up behind you. Park at a station and pay somebody to clean up the mess.

 

[Falcon_D]

Try checking out an ICourier’s cockpit. It looks from the outside as if you’re flying a fighter with a bubble canopy.

But like another poster pointed out, when you zoom into to the pilot’s chair from the outside, the pilot’s chair is in the middle of what I can only describe as a 3D IMAX dome.

The cockpit seems to have been designed for a giant and retrofitted for a normal human.

 

[Arry]

If there is not enough room to swing your average sized cat; I would not fly it. Cat swinging is a must for exploration, it cuts down on the boredom.

 

[Enderby]

It would be cool to have a small ship with a really small cockpit for local business. Dunno what I'd use one for exactly but a nice, claustrophobic cockpit would be cool.
Reminds me of pretending I was flying a Battlestar Galactica fighter whilst under the duvet, back in the day (my early 20s )

 

[CmdrKull]

There are several Reynolds, dozens of variations of Han Solo's and loads of CMDR Jamesons.

Of course there is only ONE Doctor.

Is it Cmdr The Doctor or just Cmdr Doctor? Or would it be Doctor Cmdr, or Doctor Cmdr The Doctor.. or.. no, nevermind.

On ship cockpits, never moving from the chair makes it feel small, and then we look at it from outside and it’s jarringly huge. My AspX for example. I’ve lived in smaller apartments I think, than the two story bridge of that beauty.

Some day we will float up out of our seat and kick off toward the door to the rest of the ship and the scale of it all will start to sink in. Maybe that will only be exciting for a week like some say, but what an exciting week that will be.

 

[Polygonal Spaceship]

If there is not enough room to swing your average sized cat; I would not fly it. Cat swinging is a must for exploration, it cuts down on the boredom.

+1 rep for making me laugh with a mouthful of tea. My ship's cat wouldn't be impressed (but she's an indolent beast, and currently sleeping by the radiator) - me, on the other hand, I thought that was a pure Douglas Adams moment.

It would be cool to have a small ship with a really small cockpit for local business. Dunno what I'd use one for exactly but a nice, claustrophobic cockpit would be cool. Like how I used to pretend I was flying a Battlestar Galactica fighter under the duvet back in the day (my early 20s )

Early 20s now, or when you were playing Starbuck and Apollo under the duvet? (I loved Galactica back in the day, but last time I watched it, Starbuck was still a bloke...)