Engineers Whats the point of combat with the new 2.1 AI

[Koconnor1963]

Well, I have given it a go but when my backside gets kicked by a sidewinder and I am in a pimped up FAS then you know something is wrong. If FD don't fix this issue then the bounty and combat element is going to die off. I submit to interdiction and the enemy is all over me like a rash before I even get a chance to deploy my hard points. anything bigger than a viper and they ram you instantly killing your shield and causing mass damage, it just isn't fun and I think that is a big problem.
I am no Chuck Yeager but I like to think I can hold my own in a dog fight, but this is just ridiculous. Love the other upgrades in 2.1 though

 

[stripealipe]

Well, I have given it a go but when my backside gets kicked by a sidewinder and I am in a pimped up FAS then you know something is wrong. If FD don't fix this issue then the bounty and combat element is going to die off. I submit to interdiction and the enemy is all over me like a rash before I even get a chance to deploy my hard points. anything bigger than a viper and they ram you instantly killing your shield and causing mass damage, it just isn't fun and I think that is a big problem.
I am no Chuck Yeager but I like to think I can hold my own in a dog fight, but this is just ridiculous. Love the other upgrades in 2.1 though

You think you can hold your own in a dog fight, yet your 'pimped up' FAS gets wrecked by a Sidewinder? Maybe you should post a couple of vids of these encounters and we can appraise these flying skills of yours...

 

[vermu]

Well, I have given it a go but when my backside gets kicked by a sidewinder and I am in a pimped up FAS then you know something is wrong. If FD don't fix this issue then the bounty and combat element is going to die off. I submit to interdiction and the enemy is all over me like a rash before I even get a chance to deploy my hard points. anything bigger than a viper and they ram you instantly killing your shield and causing mass damage, it just isn't fun and I think that is a big problem.
I am no Chuck Yeager but I like to think I can hold my own in a dog fight, but this is just ridiculous. Love the other upgrades in 2.1 though

I have totally different kind of experience. I am flying python without shield boosters or SCB's and sidewinders are not totally owning me. Today I encountered pimped FAS AI and I needed my wing man's help, otherwise I would been forced to high wake.

 

[askavir]

The point is making destroying a foe feel like a victory, instead of feeling like turning screws with an auto screw tightener.

The point is making combat feel like combat, instead of shooting squirrels in cages.

The point is making worthwhile experiences, creating player agency, making players take decisions, plan, where to fly, when or what to engage, fight or flight, use different tactics, instead of simply clicking on NPCs to make them blow.

The point is creating moments in the game worth remembering, creating potential for eventful sessions, like a tough fight you won, or that time you landed with a falling apart ship with only 20 seconds left of air in your broken canopy, instead of landing and thinking "only 135 million left to grind for some module for some ship", while yawning and thinking about how the game is so "grindy" and "there's nothing to do".

This is the point. And it makes the game far, far better than having the old space farming simulator.

Of course if a player only cares about seeing some bars grow and some numbers change they will never understand this, as actually playing the game and getting immersed in it gets in the way of their grinding.

 

[elrogarddublanc]

Well, I have given it a go but when my backside gets kicked by a sidewinder and I am in a pimped up FAS then you know something is wrong. If FD don't fix this issue then the bounty and combat element is going to die off. I submit to interdiction and the enemy is all over me like a rash before I even get a chance to deploy my hard points. anything bigger than a viper and they ram you instantly killing your shield and causing mass damage, it just isn't fun and I think that is a big problem.
I am no Chuck Yeager but I like to think I can hold my own in a dog fight, but this is just ridiculous. Love the other upgrades in 2.1 though

I don't rate myself as the best pilot, but I have found the new AI has meant a little bit of learning to re-fly. We were coddled, and now... well now we have to actually think and multi-task.

Some tips:

- Experiment with FA Off, or if worried, do a lot of thruster maneuvering. For small ships that you simply cannot get in your sights, trying reverse thrust. As Maverick once said, they'll fly right by...
- Try some different loadouts. You need to deliver a lot of damage very quickly, beams in particular (when off target, you'll get a lot of recharge time)
- A lot pip management is now needed. Going head to head with pretty much anything without 4 pips to shields is a bad idea - fire, maneuver while recharge, fire, repeat.
- For bigger ships - take out weapons! Reduce the shield soak you are experiencing - go for the stuff that will take out your shields while maneuvering - beam/pulse/MC turrets.
- Watch for plasma shots, and thrust out of line as SOON as you suspect. In fact - pretty much be lateral/vertical thrusting constantly - helps to avoid these shield busting shots.
- Take out a ship that is rather throw away - e.g. Cobra and practice...

In short, you will get there, experiment, FLY, manage your ship, and don't poke anything Dangerous or above. Lean back into the game - honestly, it works.

 

[Silverfoxbl]

I'm in an A rated python for my combat ship kitted for with shield boosters shield cell banks hull reinforcement interdictor and 2 large pulse 1 large beam 2 medium multis.
I don't consider myself a perfect pilot but prior to the update I could go to the high res sites and come away with maybe 1.2 - 2.5 million in bounty's before I had less than 75% hull left. and that would include taking on clippers and anacondas within the midst.
since the latest update however in the same ship I got interdicted by a federal assault ship within in 15 seconds I had no shields left and the next 3 shots took out my canopy. I had to make a run for it but I do feel that they have pushed the AI up a bit too much, I agree they needed toughening up as they were a tad bit predictable but they have seriously over done the whole AI system for ships.
With the way its going you wont be able to fly anywhere without a wing group which not everyone wants to be jumping into the game to try and find a wing group to do everything. I play a lot on my own and to be honest the way its going if the AI's dont get checked over then I can see a lot of people going to other space sim games where they can play without fear of not making any money or loosing it hand over foot purely because they are unable to take on npcs.
I dont know for certain but I have my suspicions. I think that the npc ships have already got randomised or engineer kitted out ships fully as last time I checked the damage to shield rating of beams used to burn through most shields very quickly now it barely scratches most of them.

 

[stripealipe]

I'm in an A rated python for my combat ship kitted for with shield boosters shield cell banks hull reinforcement interdictor and 2 large pulse 1 large beam 2 medium multis.
I don't consider myself a perfect pilot but prior to the update I could go to the high res sites and come away with maybe 1.2 - 2.5 million in bounty's before I had less than 75% hull left. and that would include taking on clippers and anacondas within the midst.
since the latest update however in the same ship I got interdicted by a federal assault ship within in 15 seconds I had no shields left and the next 3 shots took out my canopy. I had to make a run for it but I do feel that they have pushed the AI up a bit too much, I agree they needed toughening up as they were a tad bit predictable but they have seriously over done the whole AI system for ships.
With the way its going you wont be able to fly anywhere without a wing group which not everyone wants to be jumping into the game to try and find a wing group to do everything. I play a lot on my own and to be honest the way its going if the AI's dont get checked over then I can see a lot of people going to other space sim games where they can play without fear of not making any money or loosing it hand over foot purely because they are unable to take on npcs.
I dont know for certain but I have my suspicions. I think that the npc ships have already got randomised or engineer kitted out ships fully as last time I checked the damage to shield rating of beams used to burn through most shields very quickly now it barely scratches most of them.

Again, next time your A rated Python gets interdicted by a FAS and drops your shields in 15 secs, please record the event and upload for us to see as i'm fascinated to see some of these claims, thanks..

 

[RafeZetter]

I'm in an A rated python for my combat ship kitted for with shield boosters shield cell banks hull reinforcement interdictor and 2 large pulse 1 large beam 2 medium multis.
I don't consider myself a perfect pilot but prior to the update I could go to the high res sites and come away with maybe 1.2 - 2.5 million in bounty's before I had less than 75% hull left. and that would include taking on clippers and anacondas within the midst.
since the latest update however in the same ship I got interdicted by a federal assault ship within in 15 seconds I had no shields left and the next 3 shots took out my canopy. I had to make a run for it but I do feel that they have pushed the AI up a bit too much, I agree they needed toughening up as they were a tad bit predictable but they have seriously over done the whole AI system for ships.
With the way its going you wont be able to fly anywhere without a wing group which not everyone wants to be jumping into the game to try and find a wing group to do everything. I play a lot on my own and to be honest the way its going if the AI's dont get checked over then I can see a lot of people going to other space sim games where they can play without fear of not making any money or loosing it hand over foot purely because they are unable to take on npcs.
I dont know for certain but I have my suspicions. I think that the npc ships have already got randomised or engineer kitted out ships fully as last time I checked the damage to shield rating of beams used to burn through most shields very quickly now it barely scratches most of them.

Spot on!..

 

[elrogarddublanc]

Again, next time your A rated Python gets interdicted by a FAS and drops your shields in 15 secs, please record the event and upload for us to see as i'm fascinated to see some of these claims, thanks..

Hmmm - I am a little bemused as well. Are these guys meeting different opposition to us? Its harder, yeah, but fun harder. Combat has consequences, and is now much more a thinking game - which appeals to me a whole lot more as well. Now you can't just pick any ship and jump right in, you have to factor in "what am I flying?" before engaging particular opposition. On the interdictions and 15s kills - this is grade A weird. No pips to shields would maybe do it, but I just kinda assume folks aren't that... ahem... brave?

 

[Silverfoxbl]

Again, next time your A rated Python gets interdicted by a FAS and drops your shields in 15 secs, please record the event and upload for us to see as i'm fascinated to see some of these claims, thanks..

sorry but when I get interdicted by a ship the last thing on my mind is to load a recording program.. can just see it now "oh hang on a second Mr NPC can you not shoot me till I load a program that will let me record this."
if you are perfect and you don't get the same issue then stop trolling the thread that people are actually trying to get answers from frontier about why for some reason things seem to be causing a lot of commanders to loose ships.
or I guess what I'm trying to say is "if you don't have anything constructive to add. GO AWAY"

 

[stripealipe]

Yep, i'm still bemused as to how their shields could possibly drop so quick, but def pips management has to be a factor here... you only have to check Youtube for tests that have been done regarding PIPs to shield and their effect on shield strength and ability to soak up damage. Quite a difference between no PIPs and 4 PIPs..

 

[tipi]

My take on this is that I do think dangerous, deadly and elite NPCs should be harder to kill and maybe the balance now is about right, but it does seem that now with the points system to rank up (1 point for killing something same rank as you, 1.25 for one rank above etc) maybe needs tweaking so that for killing something same rank you get 1.5 and for killing something rank above maybe you should get 2 or 3 points. Otherwise the thousands of deadly and elite kills you need to get up to that elite combat rank is going to be a life long quest. If that reward of bigger points and greater effect on your combat rep was reworked then I think it would make those hairy battles with elite opposition feel worthwhile and you were getting a just reward for being a pilot capable of taking those top ranked NPCs out.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Closed in an effort to control the proliferation of "New AI" threads.

Please continue the discussion here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=254585