What's up with First Footfall being logged automatically? Frontier achieved infinite speed/instantaneous comunication computing. Wow?

[Mav3rik]

So I noticed that First Footfall claim is logged automatically and instantenously in the system map as soon as I touch the ground.
So The first question that arose is simply this: Why does this claim get logged instantaneously but "First discovered" and "First mapped", dont?
How does the rest of the galaxy know you planted your foot on a planet without you having returned with that data to a human port/station?

I really look forward to the explanation for this
Are we using quantum entangled computing, but just for this footfall claim?

/cheers commanders

 

[varonica]

So I noticed that First Footfall claim is logged automatically and instantenously in the system map as soon as I touch the ground.
So The first question that arose is simply this: Why does this claim get logged instantaneously but "First discovered" and "First mapped", dont?
How does the rest of the galaxy know you planted your foot on a planet without you having returned with that data to a human port/station?

I really look forward to the explanation for this
Are we using quantum entangled computing, but just for this footfall claim?

View attachment 384044
/cheers commanders

Because there's a monetary reward for first discovery and first map so you have to go to UC to collect it, but there's no monetary reward for First Footfall. They know I stepped there first because I planted my everloving flag on that planet and don't you forget it! it contains a transponder so every person who comes anywhere near the planet knows instantly that I was there clomping about and playing golf like a champion so it doesn't need to be sent anywhere!

 

[DjVortex]

Well, consider that if you commit a crime and turn yourself in, you and your ship (with all of its cargo etc) will be immediately transported to the closest penal colony... even if the closest one is like 5000 LY away.

I bet it's the same secret instant transportation technology that the Federation is keeping under the wraps.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Ever learned about games?

 

[ubermick]

Are we using quantum entangled computing, but just for this footfall claim?

iTS a cOMpuTEr gaME.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

Well, consider that if you commit a crime and turn yourself in, you and your ship (with all of its cargo etc) will be immediately transported to the closest penal colony... even if the closest one is like 5000 LY away.

I bet it's the same secret instant transportation technology that the Federation is keeping under the wraps.

I think the Imperials and the Alliance are in on it too.

 

[Northpin]

I knew that the moment Palin was so kind to let me know that i was 5000ly away from my starting point, the very second that milestone was reached.
Also... multicrewing between someone in the bubble and someone at Beagle Point? Quantum comms at work.

 

[metatheurgist]

Spooky gaming at a distance.

 

[Mav3rik]

Thanks all for the comments, except the ones that felt the need to remind us all this is a game (duh! But a game so focused on doing some science right, right?).

Anyway, I think the most plausible explanation so far is Veronica's:

Because there's a monetary reward for first discovery and first map so you have to go to UC to collect it, but there's no monetary reward for First Footfall. They know I stepped there first because I planted my everloving flag on that planet and don't you forget it! it contains a transponder so every person who comes anywhere near the planet knows instantly that I was there clomping about and playing golf like a champion so it doesn't need to be sent anywhere!

Now I'm thinking it would be great if they added that animation. Planting a flag or leaving something behind

Spooky gaming at a distance.

This is Newton contemplating the gravity of your comment.


/o7

 

[varonica]

Thanks all for the comments, except the ones that felt the need to remind us all this is a game (duh! But a game so focused on doing some science right, right?).

Anyway, I think the most plausible explanation so far is Veronica's:



Now I'm thinking it would be great if they added that animation. Planting a flag or leaving something behind



View attachment 384110 This is Newton contemplating the gravity of your comment.


/o7

Yeah I agree with the animation thing, even if it was only visible to the player and left nothing in actual fact on the surface it would be good, but it would need to be skippable in a menu, after 1,000+ times it could get a bit...weary sitting there waiting for an animation to finish. Nice for people who occasionally land on new planets but not a thing us players who do it regularly would need to see every time.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

But a game so focused on doing some science right, right?

Astrophysics only, really. System/galaxy generation is reasonably physically realistic within the constraints of what's possible to simulate quickly on home computers.

Everything else is very much "if the gameplay happens to be scientifically plausible then it can be", with no particular aim for it to be.
- conservation of mass and energy are routinely broken
- superluminal detection/communication has a much older example: you can see other ships in supercruise at their actual positions even if you're both travelling much faster than light
- scales of anything much smaller than a planet are extremely arbitrary and rarely consistent with each other
- absolutely none of the social science content makes any sense whatsoever



Communications speed is one thing where Frontier early on said that they were definitely breaking from realism: players can communicate with sub-second lag already through out-of-game tools ... so there's no point in simulating speed-of-light delays or a sophisticated inter-system comms system that's slower than that, because no-one will use it.

 

[Mav3rik]

Astrophysics only, really. System/galaxy generation is reasonably physically realistic within the constraints of what's possible to simulate quickly on home computers.

Everything else is very much "if the gameplay happens to be scientifically plausible then it can be", with no particular aim for it to be.
- conservation of mass and energy are routinely broken
- superluminal detection/communication has a much older example: you can see other ships in supercruise at their actual positions even if you're both travelling much faster than light
- scales of anything much smaller than a planet are extremely arbitrary and rarely consistent with each other
- absolutely none of the social science content makes any sense whatsoever



Communications speed is one thing where Frontier early on said that they were definitely breaking from realism: players can communicate with sub-second lag already through out-of-game tools ... so there's no point in simulating speed-of-light delays or a sophisticated inter-system comms system that's slower than that, because no-one will use it.

Yes I agree. I guess I just found it weird that they decided that that particular claim did not have to wait until getting back to a bubble with the data, but the rest did. That's all
But I guess gameplay wise it makes more sense since you can imagine there's some type of "mark" you leave behind for others to see.

/o7

 

[DjVortex]

- superluminal detection/communication has a much older example: you can see other ships in supercruise at their actual positions even if you're both travelling much faster than light

I'm no physicist, but I think that the whole concept of "traveling faster than light" is a bit... more complicated than most people realize.

We tend to forget about the principle of relativity. "Traveling faster than light"... with respect to what? There is no universal fixed point of reference, and thus constant movement of an object all of its own, in an empty universe, doesn't really exist. If you had a completely empty universe with an object in it, you could not say that it's "moving" at any particular speed because there is no frame of reference to compare its position to. Speed is always relative to something else. So the whole concept of moving at "0.5c" or even "100c", all on its own, doesn't really make much sense if you aren't specifying with respect to what.

Of course that's just from the Newtonian point of view. Relativity brings a gigantic spanner in the works because now your "speed" and traveling times depend on who is measuring. Traveling from point A to point B may take an X amount of time from the traveler's own perspective, but a vastly different Y amount of time from the perspective of someone in another frame of reference. Heck, even in this real-life universe you could theoretically travel from the Earth to Alpha Centauri in an hour from your own perspective (and no, that doesn't break the limit of c), while someone observing you from Earth would see that it takes like 5 years or the like. Turn around and go back to Earth in another hour, and two hours will have passed for you, while something like 10 years will have passed on Earth. (This would be an actual real-life way of traveling to the future, assuming you had the technology to make such travel possible. A strictly one-way trip, of course, but I'm certain a lot of people would be fully ready to do it.)

 

[Northpin]

I'm no physicist, but I think that the whole concept of "traveling faster than light" is a bit... more complicated than most people realize.

We tend to forget about the principle of relativity. "Traveling faster than light"... with respect to what? There is no universal fixed point of reference, and thus constant movement of an object all of its own, in an empty universe, doesn't really exist. If you had a completely empty universe with an object in it, you could not say that it's "moving" at any particular speed because there is no frame of reference to compare its position to. Speed is always relative to something else. So the whole concept of moving at "0.5c" or even "100c", all on its own, doesn't really make much sense if you aren't specifying with respect to what.

Of course that's just from the Newtonian point of view. Relativity brings a gigantic spanner in the works because now your "speed" and traveling times depend on who is measuring. Traveling from point A to point B may take an X amount of time from the traveler's own perspective, but a vastly different Y amount of time from the perspective of someone in another frame of reference. Heck, even in this real-life universe you could theoretically travel from the Earth to Alpha Centauri in an hour from your own perspective (and no, that doesn't break the limit of c), while someone observing you from Earth would see that it takes like 5 years or the like. Turn around and go back to Earth in another hour, and two hours will have passed for you, while something like 10 years will have passed on Earth. (This would be an actual real-life way of traveling to the future, assuming you had the technology to make such travel possible. A strictly one-way trip, of course, but I'm certain a lot of people would be fully ready to do it.)

Generally speaking. all methods of FTL travel are avoiding the relativity issues.
And that is achieved, also generally speaking, by employing some form of shortcut (wormholes or compression or something else that might look like magic to us)

For example, in ED in-system FTL travel is only apparent and it doesnt involve any relativistic speeds, just travelling at normal speeds in a bubble of highly compressed space around our ships.
So no relativistic issues.

As far as the pilot is concerned, they travel at 200m/s but in an extremely high compressed space, with a compression ratio depending on the gravitational masses in our vicinity
Let's say 10c - ten times the speed of light. That is 3,000,000 km/s, while our ship is doin 200m/s... Which means that our ship is moving in a space compressed by a factor of 15,000,000 to 1

How is it possible to notice and track ships in Supercruise (while they're doing FTL travel)?
Well - gameplay reasons. Same reasons we have only visual range combat and speed limits.

 

[Darrack]

How is it possible to notice and track ships in Supercruise (while they're doing FTL travel)?

Considering FTL travel is physically impossible

O7

 

[DjVortex]

Considering FTL travel is physically impossible

O7

Kind of.

As mentioned, you can theoretically travel eg. from Earth to Alpha Centauri in an hour (or in a microsecond) from your own perspective. That does not break the c-limit nor any laws of the universe. It's fully supported and predicted by special relativity. (The main reason why you couldn't do that in practice, unless some extraordinary new technology is invented, is because of the sheer acceleration that would be required, which would make you a sub-atomic-width pancake in a femtosecond.)

A more realistic (assuming you could produce enough acceleration via some yet-to-be-developed form of propulsion) way would be to accelerate towards Alpha Centauri at a comfortable 1g up to the midway point, after which the spaceship makes a 180 and then starts decelerating at a comfortable 1g. Even though the distance from us to Alpha Centauri is a bit over 4 LY, from your own perspective the trip would take a bit over 3 years. But how can you travel 4 lightyears in a bit over 3 years? Well, relativity is a bit confusing like that.

The thing is that it's 3 years from your perspective. People observing you from Earth would see your trip taking well over 4 years (because in a good portion of the trip you wouldn't be traveling even near to c, from their perspective.) I'm not sure how long Earth observers would see your trip taking, but I think it's something closer to 5 years, give or take.

At no point, however, would your local speed be faster than c. The reason why you can traverse the distance in a shorter amount of time is because the universe compresses in the direction of travel, so in fact the distance from here to Alpha Centauri becomes shorter for you. Yeah, relativity is a bit weird like that.

And let's not even go to General Relativity, where things can get even weirder (including apparent time travel).

 

[Darrack]

And let's not even go to General Relativity, where things can get even weirder (including apparent time travel).

Mate i sat through one of Professor Hawkins lectures once, i felt like a new-born trying to understand Mandarin

O7

 

[Greasetrap42]

Yes I agree. I guess I just found it weird that they decided that that particular claim did not have to wait until getting back to a bubble with the data, but the rest did. That's all

Ya, I agree it is weird first footfall doesn't follow the same as first discovery and mapped. I honestly wonder if it was an "oops" but too late to fix. I hardly doubt there was a design-team meeting at Frontier where it was proactively decided "ya... lets make first footfall follow different rules, lets make it immediate".

 

[Mav3rik]

Considering FTL travel is physically impossible

O7

Only until we are able to muster enough energy for a Alcubierre Drive

Ya, I agree it is weird first footfall doesn't follow the same as first discovery and mapped. I honestly wonder if it was an "oops" but too late to fix. I hardly doubt there was a design-team meeting at Frontier where it was proactively decided "ya... lets make first footfall follow different rules, lets make it immediate".

Hah a "oops" is definitely possible. I decided to go with the "by design" option for now, but it does have a "whoops" feeling to it, since there's no animation, flag planting, nada.

 

[Schmack]

Quantum entanglement no doubt.