PvP when and where to boost when 1v1 small vs large ship PvP

bicarbon8

B
so I have the following ship that I'm using to practice sticking to the tail of large ships like the Anaconda, Corvette and Cutter: https://s.orbis.zone/2g0u

ignoring the fact that the above ship is not using the recommended fixed hardpoints for PvP, what I'm really trying to work on is getting myself stuck in behind a large, engineered ship.

things to note:
  • the above ship has no problems sticking to an Elite engineered NPC Anaconda in a Pirate Activity Detected - Threat 5 signal source (takes 40+ minutes to destroy them, but still can be done)
  • I'm aware the above Viper Mk III is not as maneuverable or fast as some other ships, but it's what I've picked because it allows me a build that can sufficiently annoy wanted commanders in large ships so that they stick around to destroy me instead of jumping back out to supercruise after I interdict them.
  • I'm using a HOTAS (and not a great one at that) so my FA off aim isn't great, but I do have things setup so I can pitch, roll, yaw, and thrust forward / backward plus one other direction (up / down / left / right) simultaneously

The main problem I have is, when I'm not behind the target ship, and I want to be, I seem to struggle with my boost timing. For example:
  • when face to face with the target ship, I need to get out of that position as quickly as possible, so I deploy chaff (if not already deployed), boost towards the target, and just before passing them I bleed off any remaining boost while trying to flip around and use vertical thrusters to fly in their direction
  • when above / below / beside the target ship I try to boost directly behind them and bleed off the boost speed with vertical thrusters as I near, but even Cutters still manage to flip around to face me before I can get in position
  • even with liberal PIP management, I'm finding that my current timing of boosts results in the Eng distro running dry right when I need it most (basically 3 boosts would get me in position, but I'm only managing 2 before I need a wait 5-10 seconds and during that time the other ship has flipped around or gone 1.5-2 Km away meaning I'm in danger)

so, looking for some advice in how to go from face-to-face with the target or face-to-top / bottom with the target to face-to-back of target in PvP vs Commanders who know what they're doing and have fully engineered PvP Cutters, Corvettes and Anacondas.
 

Krash

Krash
bicarbon8 said:
so I have the following ship that I'm using to practice sticking to the tail of large ships like the Anaconda, Corvette and Cutter: https://s.orbis.zone/2g0u

ignoring the fact that the above ship is not using the recommended fixed hardpoints for PvP, what I'm really trying to work on is getting myself stuck in behind a large, engineered ship.

things to note:
  • the above ship has no problems sticking to an Elite engineered NPC Anaconda in a Pirate Activity Detected - Threat 5 signal source (takes 40+ minutes to destroy them, but still can be done)
  • I'm aware the above Viper Mk III is not as maneuverable or fast as some other ships, but it's what I've picked because it allows me a build that can sufficiently annoy wanted commanders in large ships so that they stick around to destroy me instead of jumping back out to supercruise after I interdict them.
  • I'm using a HOTAS (and not a great one at that) so my FA off aim isn't great, but I do have things setup so I can pitch, roll, yaw, and thrust forward / backward plus one other direction (up / down / left / right) simultaneously

The main problem I have is, when I'm not behind the target ship, and I want to be, I seem to struggle with my boost timing. For example:
  • when face to face with the target ship, I need to get out of that position as quickly as possible, so I deploy chaff (if not already deployed), boost towards the target, and just before passing them I bleed off any remaining boost while trying to flip around and use vertical thrusters to fly in their direction
  • when above / below / beside the target ship I try to boost directly behind them and bleed off the boost speed with vertical thrusters as I near, but even Cutters still manage to flip around to face me before I can get in position
  • even with liberal PIP management, I'm finding that my current timing of boosts results in the Eng distro running dry right when I need it most (basically 3 boosts would get me in position, but I'm only managing 2 before I need a wait 5-10 seconds and during that time the other ship has flipped around or gone 1.5-2 Km away meaning I'm in danger)

so, looking for some advice in how to go from face-to-face with the target or face-to-top / bottom with the target to face-to-back of target in PvP vs Commanders who know what they're doing and have fully engineered PvP Cutters, Corvettes and Anacondas.
Click to expand...

I would be willing to practice with you. As a big ship pilot, I'm always trying to get face to face. My "flip" maneuver accomplishes that with only 1 boost, but I'm not trying to get on the other side of his ship, just turn my own as fast as possible. I fought a good FDL pilot a couple of weeks ago and we ended up orbiting eachother for about 10 mins. So I considered that a win for me.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
bicarbon8 said:
so I have the following ship that I'm using to practice sticking to the tail of large ships like the Anaconda, Corvette and Cutter: https://s.orbis.zone/2g0u

ignoring the fact that the above ship is not using the recommended fixed hardpoints for PvP, what I'm really trying to work on is getting myself stuck in behind a large, engineered ship.

things to note:
  • the above ship has no problems sticking to an Elite engineered NPC Anaconda in a Pirate Activity Detected - Threat 5 signal source (takes 40+ minutes to destroy them, but still can be done)
  • I'm aware the above Viper Mk III is not as maneuverable or fast as some other ships, but it's what I've picked because it allows me a build that can sufficiently annoy wanted commanders in large ships so that they stick around to destroy me instead of jumping back out to supercruise after I interdict them.
  • I'm using a HOTAS (and not a great one at that) so my FA off aim isn't great, but I do have things setup so I can pitch, roll, yaw, and thrust forward / backward plus one other direction (up / down / left / right) simultaneously

The main problem I have is, when I'm not behind the target ship, and I want to be, I seem to struggle with my boost timing. For example:
  • when face to face with the target ship, I need to get out of that position as quickly as possible, so I deploy chaff (if not already deployed), boost towards the target, and just before passing them I bleed off any remaining boost while trying to flip around and use vertical thrusters to fly in their direction
  • when above / below / beside the target ship I try to boost directly behind them and bleed off the boost speed with vertical thrusters as I near, but even Cutters still manage to flip around to face me before I can get in position
  • even with liberal PIP management, I'm finding that my current timing of boosts results in the Eng distro running dry right when I need it most (basically 3 boosts would get me in position, but I'm only managing 2 before I need a wait 5-10 seconds and during that time the other ship has flipped around or gone 1.5-2 Km away meaning I'm in danger)

so, looking for some advice in how to go from face-to-face with the target or face-to-top / bottom with the target to face-to-back of target in PvP vs Commanders who know what they're doing and have fully engineered PvP Cutters, Corvettes and Anacondas.
Click to expand...




I generally don't try to get behind them because the rear of the ship has MUCH a smaller target area than the top/bottom.
It's also easier to use PAs/frags in particular, while your enemy closing distance, not while chasing.


To get in that perpendicular position, you need to use the vertical thrusters.
Vindicator Jones does a good job of describing that in his combat tutorial.

Sounds like you're boosting too often to me.
You don't want to boost past them; stick to them
 

Moriarte

Moriarte
1. Why keep on tail when you can buzz all over the place in a viper. One thing to keep in mind is keeping away from the firing arc of your enemy - that you can accomplish. Sitting on tail in pvp? Not gonna happen. You CAN sit on a tail of NPC. Need a different build for that. Yours is too slow. Speaking of which:

2. That Viper build has few fatal flaws. Check this one instead: https://s.orbis.zone/2g33. More than double your effective health, way more speed, way more agility.

Also, work on your distributor.

Give it more love, in short.
 
Last edited:

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
Looking at the build, it needs a lot of work.

I'd go for reactive bulkheads, or military at least, if you can't afford the reactives.

Armored powerplant is a better idea than OC.

You want drive distributors, not drag drives, on those enhanced thrusters.

Fuel scoop is a wasted slot for combat.

I'd suggest a larger biweave and another HRP instead of the GSRP.

The weapon choices are far from ideal too.
Use gimbals, but not turrets, if you must.
I'd suggest medium frags and small rails, or medium MCs and small bursts.
 

Morbad

Morbad
Viper build does need some work, as noted.

I consider staying behind a well engineered conda or vette that is piloted by someone that knows what they are doing to be an exercise in futility for virtually any ship. You will be able to keep out of their cone of fire a fair portion of the time, but unless they don't know what they are doing, they will get their shots in, and that's not even taking any auto aiming weapons or SLFs into account.

Cutters are vastly easier to out flank, but cutter pilots know this and will almost always have support or loadouts to compensate, again, if they have any idea what they are doing.

Regardless, you want to boost sparingly, normally to close distance or rapidly move out of their cone of fire, and rely on your vertical/lateral thusters most of the time.
 

cmdr Ramius007

C
Its nearly impossible to make sensible combat viper build with enhanced drives(except maybe a torpedo boat) medium hardpoints not ideal for gimbals, small ones can go either way. Viper unlike DBS, Vulture and even Courier is not great browler, so medium range weapons should be favoured. Focused is probably worst possible mod on cytos.
 

bicarbon8

B
Krash said:
I would be willing to practice with you. As a big ship pilot, I'm always trying to get face to face. My "flip" maneuver accomplishes that with only 1 boost, but I'm not trying to get on the other side of his ship, just turn my own as fast as possible. I fought a good FDL pilot a couple of weeks ago and we ended up orbiting eachother for about 10 mins. So I considered that a win for me.
Click to expand...

are you on PC? I spend a good portion of my time around Deciat, but could meet up somewhere else in the bubble. My commander name is the same as my forum name.
 

The Replicated Man

T
If you are fighting a cutter all he is going to do is boost past you and flip 180 degrees and reverski
 

bicarbon8

B
Morbad said:
You will be able to keep out of their cone of fire a fair portion of the time
Click to expand...

one of the problems I've experienced here is that I think I am outside of their cone of fire, but it seems that they're still able to land hits. Might be that the visuals aren't matching the actual positions (due to network), but it makes it much more difficult to trust that I'm not at risk unless I'm directly behind the other ship.
 

bicarbon8

B
Bob Lighthouse said:
Looking at the build, it needs a lot of work.

I'd go for reactive bulkheads, or military at least, if you can't afford the reactives.

Armored powerplant is a better idea than OC.
Click to expand...

wouldn't that significantly slow the ship down? it's already heavy enough that it has started to impact the speed of the ship so adding more weight would be a detriment to maneuverability, no?

Bob Lighthouse said:
Fuel scoop is a wasted slot for combat.
Click to expand...

yeah, agreed, but it has no weight and I had to travel a ways to get to Shinrarta for my practice

Bob Lighthouse said:
The weapon choices are far from ideal too.
Use gimbals, but not turrets, if you must.
I'd suggest medium frags and small rails, or medium MCs and small bursts.
Click to expand...

I noted that in the OP. Not looking for attack power, looking for tailgating practice / advice
 

Krash

Krash
bicarbon8 said:
are you on PC? I spend a good portion of my time around Deciat, but could meet up somewhere else in the bubble. My commander name is the same as my forum name.
Click to expand...

Yes, PC. My vette is based in Eravate. My jump range is only about 22ly but I'll send you a FR tonight and we can find midpoint system.
 

bicarbon8

B
Bigmaec said:
Highwake away and don't bother with Cutters? :D
Click to expand...

the main reason I was surprised that I couldn't tailgate the real commander's cutter is that I keep hearing everyone saying how bad the pitch and yaw rates are. I was expecting to be able to stick right to it like glue, but I kept ending up 1.5-2 Km away having to boost back towards it as it pitched around and by the time it completed the pitch maneuver, I was far away again :(
 

Krash

Krash
bicarbon8 said:
the main reason I was surprised that I couldn't tailgate the real commander's cutter is that I keep hearing everyone saying how bad the pitch and yaw rates are. I was expecting to be able to stick right to it like glue, but I kept ending up 1.5-2 Km away having to boost back towards it as it pitched around and by the time it completed the pitch maneuver, I was far away again :(
Click to expand...

When I do the pitch move in the cutter its with boost and even with FAoff its not a tight little circle. I can imagine it looks like a huge loop to an outside observer. Sometimes my targets are several KM away when I'm lined up and I have to hit boost again just to catch up to them.
 

Bob Lighthouse

Banned
Bob Lighthouse
bicarbon8 said:
wouldn't that significantly slow the ship down? it's already heavy enough that it has started to impact the speed of the ship so adding more weight would be a detriment to maneuverability, no?
Click to expand...

Mine does ~572 at ~110t, so it's still faster than an FDL.
Generally, you really want some decent armor under biweaves.




yeah, agreed, but it has no weight and I had to travel a ways to get to Shinrarta for my practice
Click to expand...

For proper feedback, it's better present a complete build.
What goes in there can affect everything else.



I noted that in the OP. Not looking for attack power, looking for tailgating practice / advice
Click to expand...

But why?
How you attack and defend will change depending on the weapons you have installed.
Why spend time learning a skill that won't benefit, when you could be spending time learning how to use fixed weapons instead?

Seems like misplaced priorities to me.
 

bicarbon8

B
Bob Lighthouse said:
Mine does ~572 at ~110t, so it's still faster than an FDL.
Generally, you really want some decent armor under biweaves.
Click to expand...

can you share your build please?

Bob Lighthouse said:
For proper feedback, it's better present a complete build.
What goes in there can affect everything else.
Click to expand...

what I presented is what I'm practicing in. the practice involves flight training and maneuvering, not shooting (yet)

Bob Lighthouse said:
But why?
How you attack and defend will change depending on the weapons you have installed.
Why spend time learning a skill that won't benefit, when you could be spending time learning how to use fixed weapons instead?

Seems like misplaced priorities to me.
Click to expand...

not sure how learning to time my boosts better won't benefit, but ok... duly noted
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom