PvP when and where to boost when 1v1 small vs large ship PvP

[bicarbon8]

When I do the pitch move in the cutter its with boost and even with FAoff its not a tight little circle. I can imagine it looks like a huge loop to an outside observer. Sometimes my targets are several KM away when I'm lined up and I have to hit boost again just to catch up to them.

so, just for some additional data points, I took the following Viper Mk IV out to Shinrarta last night: https://s.orbis.zone/2gss

I wanted to see if a slightly slower, but more heavily armoured ship would fare any better in being able to tailgate a Cutter. Imagine my surprise when I was able to stick to the tail of the cutter this time. I think the difference may be due to better lateral & vertical thrusters on the Mk IV combined with slower overall speed allowing me to change direction quickly after I close the gap with the target ship.

So, I think I will simply need to better plan the direction I use to bleed off my boost speed when I'm in the Viper Mk III to make up the difference. The difficulty though will be that some of it is highly susceptible to last minute changes in on the part of the other commander as I don't use VR and so can't see the other ship during part of the maneuver

NOTE: while I was successful in tailgating with the Mk IV, it didn't last long because the Cutter had a FDL wingmate that ripped me to shreds. I tried a 1v1 with a different FDL by Jameson Memorial afterwards just to practice and while I was able to flip around at about the same rate, my lack of stability on the HOTAS with FA off proved to be my downfall as I was struggling to land my railgun shots (that and a misstep at the end where I crashed, head-on with the FDL while my shields were down and my hull was at 33%)

anyway... good fun was had (hope the my targets didn't mind having to destroy my ship over and over again )

 

[Krash]

so, just for some additional data points, I took the following Viper Mk IV out to Shinrarta last night: https://s.orbis.zone/2gss

I wanted to see if a slightly slower, but more heavily armoured ship would fare any better in being able to tailgate a Cutter. Imagine my surprise when I was able to stick to the tail of the cutter this time. I think the difference may be due to better lateral & vertical thrusters on the Mk IV combined with slower overall speed allowing me to change direction quickly after I close the gap with the target ship.

So, I think I will simply need to better plan the direction I use to bleed off my boost speed when I'm in the Viper Mk III to make up the difference. The difficulty though will be that some of it is highly susceptible to last minute changes in on the part of the other commander as I don't use VR and so can't see the other ship during part of the maneuver

NOTE: while I was successful in tailgating with the Mk IV, it didn't last long because the Cutter had a FDL wingmate that ripped me to shreds. I tried a 1v1 with a different FDL by Jameson Memorial afterwards just to practice and while I was able to flip around at about the same rate, my lack of stability on the HOTAS with FA off proved to be my downfall as I was struggling to land my railgun shots (that and a misstep at the end where I crashed, head-on with the FDL while my shields were down and my hull was at 33%)

anyway... good fun was had (hope the my targets didn't mind having to destroy my ship over and over again )

What's your rebuy, around $200k? That's makes the viper a great PvP ship to mess around in.

 

[bicarbon8]

What's your rebuy, around $200k? That's makes the viper a great PvP ship to mess around in.

yeah, only 200-350K depending on the notoriety of the other commander. That's one of the main reasons I'm using the Vipers for practice

 

[Feros-da-Grundig]

I think the difference may be due to better lateral & vertical thrusters on the Mk IV combined with slower overall speed allowing me to change direction quickly after I close the gap with the target ship.

Just FYI, the Vipers 3 & 4 have identical base thruster acceleration (lats, verts, & mains) as well as boost multiplier.

You're probably right though about the reduced top speed helping to make it more manageable.

I noticed on your original build you used drag experimental instead of drive distributors on the Viper 3's EPT - that may have been hampering your acceleration as well. Swapping the experimental effect will add 26 m/s to top speed as well as better acceleration. EPT is pretty much the only case drive distro is preferable over drag. I suppose even with distro instead of drag, it's possible the acceleration is worse - the 3A EPT has a different performance curve than 3A and it's unclear to me how that might affect acceleration - for certain weights it could have worse acceleration despite higher top speed.

See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UKvWx-Po1erSwAFomEpSJvB5vRbYn_A2t0T9lNhMst0

 

[Bob Lighthouse]

can you share your build please?

Sure, I think this is current:
https://s.orbis.zone/2h1l

what I presented is what I'm practicing in. the practice involves flight training and maneuvering, not shooting (yet)



not sure how learning to time my boosts better won't benefit, but ok... duly noted

Understood, but "better" is situational, and depends on your loadout somewhat.
You could develop counter-productive habits.

 

[bicarbon8]

Just FYI, the Vipers 3 & 4 have identical base thruster acceleration (lats, verts, & mains) as well as boost multiplier.

You're probably right though about the reduced top speed helping to make it more manageable.

I noticed on your original build you used drag experimental instead of drive distributors on the Viper 3's EPT - that may have been hampering your acceleration as well. Swapping the experimental effect will add 26 m/s to top speed as well as better acceleration. EPT is pretty much the only case drive distro is preferable over drag. I suppose even with distro instead of drag, it's possible the acceleration is worse - the 3A EPT has a different performance curve than 3A and it's unclear to me how that might affect acceleration - for certain weights it could have worse acceleration despite higher top speed.

See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UKvWx-Po1erSwAFomEpSJvB5vRbYn_A2t0T9lNhMst0

yepp, you are correct there. Makes a pretty big difference on top speed and boost so I'll be making this change before the next round of training

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Remember that you can drag boost through all your thrusters, you can use it to claw back distance without overshooting against players.

Best bet is to boost either to thier left or right and hold that position via laterals/verticals and boosting when they do, or above/below, using laterals/verticals to move round to thier rear end.

I personally prefer sitting to the side of the opposing ship, regardless of opponent because every ship (FAS nonwithstanding) that you're likely to see in PvP has significantly worse yaw speed than any other direction o movement. Thus sitting to the side of most ships not only removes thier targeting solution, it also forces them to move in three full directions to re attain that solution. Something a small vessel can do far more simply and effectively whilst maintaining its DPS (However meagre that might be).

Againt a good pilot you'll really have to work to beat in a big ship because thier inertia will carry them much further than you, which is something they will abuse to reaquire thier target, so more boosting and better timing is cetainly required, however there are a good number of big ship pilots whom you can avoid being shot by all but entirely. Especially in Vipers/Eagles.

Admittedly im in the scrub galaxy right now, but there are a fair number of pilots in big ships whom the good PvPers can fight in small ships and scarely lose 10% hull (Running no shileds).
Simply due to the volume of people on PC and Xbox, odds are the same type of player resides about somewhere, good practice.

o7 GLHF.