When can a retreated faction come back?

teje3

T
We are currently forcing the retreat of a MF a we are in the first day of retreat state.
At the same time this MF has just started a expansion in the neighbor system.

Under this current conditions, the retreat will be effective 1-2 days before completing the expansion.
Can the retreated faction be back? There is a period of "cold down" or similar to be back?

Thank you
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Factions "prefer" to not return to systems they'd previously retreated from. They may eventually forget, but this is not certain and it takes a very long time if so.

If the other faction has alternative systems it can expand to instead (range, number of factions already present, etc.) then it will go to all of them first before coming back to you. If it has no alternatives - or the alternatives would involve an invasion conflict and your system won't - then they could be back a few days later.
 

Walter2

Walter2
Inara has a fairly good tool to help identify likely expansion targets. If you search for the MF's home system, Inara will give you a list of neighbouring systems with a tally of factions within each system. Normally, the expansion will go to a system with six or fewer factions - other rules are applied if there is nothing suitable: Expansions: BGS Guide Best Current Thinking.
Of course, accuracy is dependent on Inara receiving up-to-date info.
 

teje3

T
Ian Doncaster said:
Factions "prefer" to not return to systems they'd previously retreated from. They may eventually forget, but this is not certain and it takes a very long time if so.

If the other faction has alternative systems it can expand to instead (range, number of factions already present, etc.) then it will go to all of them first before coming back to you. If it has no alternatives - or the alternatives would involve an invasion conflict and your system won't - then they could be back a few days later.
Click to expand...
Thank you.
The next free system for them is to 23 ly (probably within the 20yl cube). I hope they expand there and not where we are forcing the retreat.
 
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Alshain

Alshain
Walter2 said:
Inara has a fairly good tool to help identify likely expansion targets. If you search for the MF's home system, Inara will give you a list of neighbouring systems with a tally of factions within each system. Normally, the expansion will go to a system with six or fewer factions - other rules are applied if there is nothing suitable: Expansions: BGS Guide Best Current Thinking.
Of course, accuracy is dependent on Inara receiving up-to-date info.
Click to expand...

Inara is inaccurate on this. Expansions take place in a 40 x 40 x 40 cube along the galactic grid with the origin at the center, Inara displays the closest systems by direct distance from the origin (i.e. a sphere). Try to turn a cube into a sphere and you round off the corners where possible expansion targets could be hiding.
 

Walter2

Walter2
Certainly, ED uses the cube to establish expansion opportunities, but I don't know what method Inara uses. I remember someone (Sentenza?) once suggesting that the cube method has a lower programming overhead. However, Inara's list around my home system extends to 32Ly, which could be outside the cube.
But given that Inara doesn't necessarily have the latest data on faction counts, it should only be taken as advisory.
 

Artie

Artie
Inara is showing the nearest star systems that can even go outside of the expansion radius. However, with the latest update you can see blue dots in the list indicating the system is within the cube (+/- 20 Ly) and has enough "space left" (in respect to total number of minor factions there). It should help to easier identify the possible expansion targets. :)
 

FrogsFriend

FrogsFriend
Artie said:
Inara is showing the nearest star systems that can even go outside of the expansion radius. However, with the latest update you can see blue dots in the list indicating the system is within the cube (+/- 20 Ly) and has enough "space left" (in respect to total number of minor factions there). It should help to easier identify the possible expansion targets. :)
Click to expand...
Now that's useful 👍
 

teje3

T
Artie said:
Inara is showing the nearest star systems that can even go outside of the expansion radius. However, with the latest update you can see blue dots in the list indicating the system is within the cube (+/- 20 Ly) and has enough "space left" (in respect to total number of minor factions there). It should help to easier identify the possible expansion targets. :)
Click to expand...
It calculates with the real cube?
In the system I am checking, it goes only until 21ly. :cry:
 

Armholeeio

Armholeeio
The old rule of seven has died, trying to keep a group of uppity neighbours from whining we set up a system to have 7 factions so we couldn’t go into a system we had handbags over. But a few weeks after retreating we bounced back in, and gone into another system with already 7 factions around the same time.
 

teje3

T
After one week hard work, the faccion is retreated and it left the system.
In two days, the same faccion completes the expansion process.
Let see!
 

teje3

T
Finally, the MF expanded today to the far system and not to the one where they were retreated.
They are trying to expand again, they didn't go down with their influence. Next time, they probably back in the system, but this is another history.
Thank you for your replies.
 

Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Alshain said:
Inara is inaccurate on this. Expansions take place in a 40 x 40 x 40 cube along the galactic grid with the origin at the center, Inara displays the closest systems by direct distance from the origin (i.e. a sphere). Try to turn a cube into a sphere and you round off the corners where possible expansion targets could be hiding.
Click to expand...
You mean it's actually a little rough around the edges? (I should go.)
 

Lord of the Isles

Lord of the Isles
Erbaran said:
Currently (June 15, 2020) a faction can return to a systen they'd previously retreated from. It has happened twice in the last weeks.
Click to expand...

Yes. I would love to see a faction retreat from a system and then expand back into it on the same tick but the closest I've seen was 4 or 5 days. On 15th or 16th June, faction A retreated from a system (system wasn't visited then nor when state went pending, so exact day unknown). On 20th June they expanded (from 20.5 Ly away) and reappeared in the system. All by the book - apart from a permit-only system this one was the only one in the 40x40x40 Ly cube with fewer than 7 factions.

For a bonus point: do 2nd & subsequent expansions to a system have to be from different source systems each time, or can they come from the same one? I've no idea.
 

Ian Doncaster

Ian Doncaster
Lord of the Isles said:
Yes. I would love to see a faction retreat from a system and then expand back into it on the same tick but the closest I've seen was 4 or 5 days.

For a bonus point: do 2nd & subsequent expansions to a system have to be from different source systems each time, or can they come from the same one? I've no idea.
Click to expand...
They can come from the same one.

Here's a recent two-tick gap for Lobos de Loki
https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/systems/65/history?minrange=3306-06-09&maxrange=3306-06-22 (oddly, straight into an Outbreak state)
and a less recent one-tick gap for Infinity's End Deep Space Company

...and I'm pretty sure that this is a zero-tick example, again for Lobos de Loki, but since I didn't see it at the time I didn't check the local news to be certain
(The expansion didn't go anywhere else and there were definitely other places it could have gone, the retreat was on low influence and should have succeeded, and it's a suspiciously large jump in influence otherwise)
 
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