When more birds get added, how will they work?

[tigris115]

Ideally, I'd like free-roaming birds of many kinds so that I can create gigantic aviaries.

However, I'm sure that making a flying animal (or one that dives and swims underwater) is harder than making something that walks around like a zebra or a gorilla

While there are many birds that you can get away with spending lots of time on the ground (pheasants, quails, ground hornbills, PENGUINS, secretary birds, seriemas, waders, storks, cranes, herons, kiwis, rarities, guineafowl, turkeys, swamp turkeys, etc.), birds like parrots are so ubiquitous to zoos, to have them left out for the whole lifespan of the game would be weird.

Even for the flying birds mentioned and those already in-game, some flying would be nice. Maybe peafowls can fly into trees while flamingos can go over some fences. In real life zoos, flamingos have the tips of their primary feathers clipped so that they don't fly away without having to build aviaries.

 

[NZFanatic]

Personally I think (and would prefer) aviaries to be handled like exhibits, but with a bit more variation. So basically we have maybe six different kinds of aviaries in various shapes and sizes, plop it down, and populate it with birds that exist on animation loops like the pterosaurs in Jurassic World Evolution (another Frontier game). This would provide the birds but keep the management limited, and it would be far less strain on the game's engine since it won't be calculating three dimensions of space all the time around every bird that is moving around in the air.

Logistically it makes the most sense, but we'll see if Frontier ever decides to add aviary birds to the game.

As for free-roaming birds, I was surprised we didn't have this option with the peafowl already. I did posit one idea once where they could just make it so the Null barrier acts like a regular barrier for the peafowl, to create the illusion of free-roaming.

 

[tigris115]

I know that ZT2:MM had diving animals so at least that mechanic shouldn't be too hard to implement.

 

[Danny_zoo]

Since one of the base elements of the game is the piece by piece construction system, allowing for player control of design and maximum creativity, I'm not a big fan of looping animations for birds. Now if we are talking about very small species in size, it something that i could definitely see working in the game. However larger birds like Macaws, Toucans, Hornbills etc would not work well with a looping animation, it would look very unrealistic and these species are quite complex in behavior. Larger birds, including birds of prey etc, would be out of the question.

There is also a second problem with exhibit animals, something like this would be more than likely another square box design, and as all of us know most bird exhibits are not shaped this way. So you would be able to built bird exhibits that would resemble what you would find in colder climate zoos. But when building tropical and sub-tropical zoos it would look totally off. In any case, my prediction is that none of this matters much, since the whole reason why flying bird species have not being released is that Frontier is hard at work on new animations and barrier systems for them.

Thru my contacts in the zoo world, I know that a large group from frontier spent quite a substantial amount of time studying many elements of the San Diego Zoo, and particular attention was given to their aviaries (they are world renown, and considered some of the best in the business) this took place right around the time the base game was launched. My believe is that we will not get birds or aviaries for a while, it might not happen until later on in the year or even the next, however, when we do it would be a game changing and revolutionary design never been properly done before. I think many in this forum underestimate the scope and ability of what the Planet Zoo team can accomplish. We will have birds species that will act freely according to each species behavior, and a new system of barriers, maybe even more than one design that will allow for the inclusion of flexible Mesh exhibits. The shape and size of these enclosures will be altered by players and their interior design completely up to the players.

 

[NZFanatic]

In any case, my prediction is that none of this matters much, since the whole reason why flying bird species have not being released is that Frontier is hard at work on new animations and barrier systems for them.

You've said this in two different threads. I'd love to know what makes you believe that.

 

[Danny_zoo]

You've said this in two different threads. I'd love to know what makes you believe that.

There are actually several indicators, if frontier wanted to release birds as exhibit animals they would have already done so, don't you think? The game has included many of the most common animals found in zoos so far, with a few exceptions. Many bird species are not only expected to be found in zoos, but if you look at any zoological collection you will find that they hold the biggest percentage on their roster, fact. Then there is Frontier, and specifically the team behind Planet Zoo, very passionate about this game, looking over every piece in the DLC and the animals of course, you can tell that their commitment to the game and the quality of their work is still the priority in their agenda. I'm an artist myself (different field) yet one thing any artist that has any sort of pride does not like, is limitations to their work due to a challenge, we will keep on trying until we get it right.

Then there is San Diego, a pioneer on walk thru aviaries and some of the best and most varied walk thru bird exhibits on the planet, another fact. Now Frontier takes a nice little field trip a little after the base game launches, and what is their main concern while visiting the zoo, what questions were asked? I can say this, there was plenty that can be deducted from their visit, based on the information they were clearly seeking. How does this bird exhibit function? What is the supporting structure like? What materials are usually best suited to hold birds? What sort of species can and can not be housed together? Someone from the zoo who interacted with them, was actually quite shock that there were no aviaries or a significant bird count on the game yet, mind you, this individual does not play the game, so the particulars of how long it takes to create something like this in a virtual world was missing to them. As I said, we will all find out in due time, but my believe is that they roll out a bird DLC, it will be something never experienced in this type of games before, groundbreaking material.

 

[NZFanatic]

There are actually several indicators,

No offence, but presumed 'indicators' that you came up with yourself don't warrant the confidence with which you've been making your claim.

As to the question, "wouldn't they have released them already?", the answer is, why would they? I'm sure they have a roadmap of things they're releasing, and in which order they're being released, with certain things prioritised over other things. For all we know they haven't started working on birds yet.

 

[nigricollisGameplays]

When I was at loro parque in tenerife I was so much impressed of everything so I hope to get birds because I am already doing a recreation of the loro parque in sandbox and need it in the end. You know it first began as a bird zoo

 

[Witch King of Angmar]

Yeah if anything it would be a shame if species such as large parrots and birds of prey get reduced to exhibit animals with looped animations. Birds in general have such vibrant and complex behaviors, they don't deserve this.

I can see pre-built small aviaries (in the vein of the current terrariums) could work for small birds like sparrows, starlings, kingfishers, etc. but definitely not for the larger ones. Specially if one wants to build a walkthrough aviary as many zoos do.

With the game already featuring piece-by-piece building system and the capability of creating climbing structures, I can see high flying birds (or even bats) coming to this game. It may take more time and resources for the devs, but I'd be glad to pay for a full-fledged aviary expansion pack.

 

[Swjosdotschka]

If the hitboxes aren't change I'd definately prefer the JWE variant with animation loops. Otherwise we would have to build avaries as high as a sky scraper to let parrots fly at guest height -.-

@NZFanatic has also a good point as to what problems might accure with free flying birds. The game would have to calculate A LOT. And it already has to with animals on the ground. There are still people playing Planet Zoo with computers I wouldn't even call suitable. This pcs might turn into a barbecue grill. I think we have to be realistic when it comes to birds and remember, that game developement isn't done by the blink of an eye and not all is as easy as it seems.

Personally, I can wait forever for birds, as I don't really care much about them. However, swimming and diving has similar problems and there is where my heart skips a beat. Sigh. So not only birds, but seals and otters might be problematic as well. And there we don't have the work-around with a loop.

 

[VioletGrey]

I would absolutely love to have macaws in the game. My zoo has hyacinth and scarlet macaws in a giant open area (I assume that their wings are clipped so they can't fly). It wouldn't be hard to make them so that they just sit on a perch, with animations so they preen their feathers every once in a while. It would be a lovely addition to the game.

 

[markun]

If the hitboxes aren't change I'd definately prefer the JWE variant with animation loops. Otherwise we would have to build avaries as high as a sky scraper to let parrots fly at guest height -.-

@NZFanatic but seals and otters might be problematic as well. And there we don't have the work-around with a loop.

But they could swim at the surface. Not ideal I know but I’d rather have an otter that did that than no otter at all.

 

[Lucky_fellow]

But they could swim at the surface. Not ideal I know but I’d rather have an otter that did that than no otter at all.

That's true. But I do think that Frontier has taken into account diving mechanics. You can look underwater. I would be very suprised if animals cannot dive in this game at one point in time. Because, otters, seals, Sea Lions are key animals in a lot of zoo's.

However, I do unsterstand that this is not yet their first priority.

 

[NZFanatic]

But they could swim at the surface. Not ideal I know but I’d rather have an otter that did that than no otter at all.

I'm the opposite. I'd rather not have them than have them be lackluster. The charm of aquatic animals in zoos is being able to see them move underwater - if they can't replicate that in PZ then in my opinion it just isn't worth it.

I imagine part of the problem is calculating space requirements on a 3D axis. Animals at the moment require land surface + water surface + climbing surface at a maximum. Adding in habitat birds or animals that require underwater movement might also require calculating depth on the level of 'air space' and 'water space'. Not to mention hitboxes which have already been mentioned, which I would imagine is a bigger problem for birds than for aquatic animals.

 

[LN]

Honestly, Most of the Zoo's I come, birds are mostly stationary on a tree stump. They aren't constantly flying.
I think the hardest part is the animations for a bird going to fly and landing. How to seamesly mesh those 2 together.

And as you can already box any animal in with only 4 walls and a roof, why wouldn't it work with birds as a containment?

 

[Swjosdotschka]

And as you can already box any animal in with only 4 walls and a roof, why wouldn't it work with birds as a containment?

That actually triggers a thought....
If we would be able to use a mesh or kind of a celing on an habitat, instead ofthe climbing barriers, we could make habitats more interestingfor small monkeys as well. They normally usemesh all the time for climing. It wlways bothers me, that they won't so in the game, just because there is a climbing barrier 3 meters above them.

 

[NZFanatic]

And as you can already box any animal in with only 4 walls and a roof, why wouldn't it work with birds as a containment?

Containment isn't necessarily the issue, and frankly it's hardly the same thing - current animal hitboxes work on a surface-to-surface system (ground to ceiling, mostly). With birds flying around, there would be empty space below and above the bird that would change as the bird moves. Basically there would be a huge amount of calculations to consider. On top of that, as I said earlier, the game calculates space requirements at a surface level - hitboxes are different from traversible terrain at their core. Hitboxes determine how much space an animal needs to move past specific objects, but the space they require for their welfare is calculated by how much traversible terrain the animal has in total. It only calculates two dimensions of space (land surface and water surface). Birds would require three dimensions of space, because there would need to be a minimum height for birds to be able to fly. So every edit you make to a big custom-built aviary (which, I will also add, is another ridiculously difficult system to implement, considering the flexibility of the current barrier system) would recalculate not only traversible area at a surface level, but also how much empty space there is in the air.

It's not impossible but it would be a massive strain on the game's engine and I personally wouldn't want it that way. My computer struggles enough with the game as it is, and it's a brand new gaming laptop with literally nothing else on it.