General / Off-Topic when the programmers have more influence than the marketers

[kenwshmt]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-29-game-dev-tycoon-forces-those-who-pirate-the-game-to-unwittingly-fail-from-piracy

"Pre-empting the game's eventual appearance on file-sharing sites, Patrick and Daniel Klug uploaded their own cracked copy of the full game. But within the code lay a few extra lines.

Those who play the pirated version are warned that their own attempts at creating games are being hampered by piracy. Profits for each project will be less than those who own and paid for the full game.

Players will eventually see their careers end in bankruptcy. "

 

[kenwshmt]

As if summoned.

"Developer Greenheart Games' Game Dev Tycoon has an impressively clever anti-piracy measure. Users that pirate the game will start out normally, slowly building up their own game development studio. But eventually, something funny starts happening. More and more gamers start illegally downloading your games, eating into your profit margins, until it's impossible to turn a profit.

This has led to incredible situations like real-world video game pirates complaining about the game's virtual pirates on the game's official forums. Oh, the irony!

Game Dev Tycoon isn't the first game to stick the proverbial thumb in the eye of game pirates, though. In fact the practice has a long and storied history, almost as old as the games industry itself. Let's take a look at some of the most amusing examples:"

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/29/eight-of-the-most-hilarious-anti-piracy-measures-in-video-games?utm_campaign=twposts&utm_source=twitter

"EarthBound

Arguably the most devious and notorious example of "creative" copy protection is also one of the oldest. The good people at Starmen.net have the full scoop on EarthBound's anti-piracy measures. The short version? Enemy encounters become much, much more frequent, making the game a slog. If a pirate still manages to make it to the end, the game freezes in the final few moments before the climax, and deletes the save file. Brutal!"

 

[Alien]

Reading this it occurs to me that maybe what FD are doing (and here I am guessing because I don't know what FD are going to do) is that even if you have a copy of the game (whether it is a pledge from the Kickstarter, bought in a shop, bought from the FD website online or a pirate copy), you will still need an account to play Elite: Dangerous, and to create an account to play Elite: Dangerous, you need to prove you have a legal copy.

This is not a new concept. EA's Spore, for example, was pirated, and anyone illegally downloading it was warned NOT to play the game online*. There is also the old saying "once you create a secure system, someone will find a way to into it" (I can't remember exactly how that saying goes, but you get the idea).

I'm not worried about game piracy, you get so much more buying a legal copy.

* That is not an admission to any illegal downloading

 

[Selezen]

That approach is awesome - i love that people have started reporting the piracy problem in the forum and asking the devs how to solve it - thereby unwittingly revealling themselves as pirates! Some of the comments are awesome.

 

[Alien]

That approach is awesome - i love that people have started reporting the piracy problem in the forum and asking the devs how to solve it - thereby unwittingly revealling themselves as pirates! Some of the comments are awesome.

Arrr matey ... sorry, slipped into pirate mode there.
Knowing about piracy, and doing it ... are two different things, hence my disclaimer in my above post.

 

[Darren Grey]

One criticism that has come out is that the Game Dev Tycoon game is actually just a cheap clone of Game Dev Story. This anti-piracy stunt is perhaps just a piece of clever marketing to get more attention for an otherwise feeble title.

Piracy is a pretty bad blight though. I was at a talk by David Braben last year where he said that piracy rates were 8 to 1 across many of Frontier's games (they have the same anonymous usage stats as Game Dev Tycoon). And that goes up to around 20 to 1 in areas like China and Russia (sorry Russian fans ).

 

[Selezen]

It's a vicious circle, though. Apparently the "justification" for the hyper-inflation of software prices is the impact of piracy. The irony here being that the increased prices mean less people can afford to buy the games and thus pirate them instead.

It's the same in every field where things can be copied, and DRM doesn't matter.

There's no way to get round it, sadly. My slightly naive options would be to either seriously drop the prices and hope for the best or offer other incentives to buy, much like Kickstarter offers pledge rewards (such as help and support and access to a special bonus thing, like resources or a web site) that would appeal to the target audience.

I'll be honest, I have downloaded games, but purely because I don't want to spend £40 on a game that might be rubbish or that I'll play for 20 minutes and get bored of. If I play a game and like it enough to come back to it, then I'll bin my downloaded copy and buy it. The sad truth is that there are more people out there who would just say "meh, I've got the game, I'm happy and not hurting anyone" then look at homeless game developers in the street and get annoyed that they haven't got jobs.

The mediums are there now for game developers to engage the enthusiasm of their potential audiences now, with game footage, interactive content, marketing and so on - things like remote distribution work quite well (if only the game sizes would come down a bit). Most technical solutions to these problems are dealt with by crackers in a matter of hours these days, so more creative ways need to be found to generate cash.

I believe Microsoft took a quite creative line with piracy. They were rumoured to state that the reason they rarely crack down on piracy is that it means copies of Windows are being used, increasing their market exposure and value. Rumours have it that they INCLUDE pirated copies in their stats of "copies of Windows in use". Even if it's untrue, it's still a great idea, as long as there's been enough profit to cover the costs and wages for the developers. Anyone who sees a pirate copy or plays one has a chance to become a buyer, after all.

 

[Styggron]

Thanks for the heads up on this great game Alien. I tried the demo, loved it so went out and bought it. Great fun.

 

[Darren Grey]

It's a vicious circle, though. Apparently the "justification" for the hyper-inflation of software prices is the impact of piracy. The irony here being that the increased prices mean less people can afford to buy the games and thus pirate them instead.

Not sure where you're seeing this inflation. With digital distribution, Steam sales, cheap bundles and many indie developers releasing at low prices there's really never been a better buyer's market for games. Console game prices have stayed steady over the years, but they've not increased.

There's no way to get round it, sadly. My slightly naive options would be to either seriously drop the prices and hope for the best or offer other incentives to buy, much like Kickstarter offers pledge rewards (such as help and support and access to a special bonus thing, like resources or a web site) that would appeal to the target audience.

Well the two solutions in use are intusive copy-protection (like the dreaded always-on DRM that has plagued SimCity and Diablo 3) or releasing for free/cheap and making all money through in-app purchases. The latter is especially bad, as it actually interferes with the game mechanics, leading to all sorts of horrible tricks from devs trying to get players to pay more. I don't mind cosmetic IAPs, but anything affecting the gameplay is just wrong.

I believe Microsoft took a quite creative line with piracy. They were rumoured to state that the reason they rarely crack down on piracy is that it means copies of Windows are being used, increasing their market exposure and value. Rumours have it that they INCLUDE pirated copies in their stats of "copies of Windows in use". Even if it's untrue, it's still a great idea, as long as there's been enough profit to cover the costs and wages for the developers. Anyone who sees a pirate copy or plays one has a chance to become a buyer, after all.

This can't be a universal method though, and certainly doesn't work for many of the most pirated games. Usually something gets pirated because it's popular, not the other way around. Microsoft are happy about it because it helps enforce a Windows monopoly, keeping everyone stuck to Windows-only products. Now that their monopoly is badly crumbling I'm sure they won't have such a relaxed view of piracy. Or they'll do what they're now approaching - OS is free but they take a cut of all program sales.

 

[Alien]

Thanks for the heads up on this great game Alien. I tried the demo, loved it so went out and bought it. Great fun.

Huh? I missed the bit where I recommended a game.

I did buy Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 recently in a charity shop for £1.
Now there is a whole other debate as to whether doing that is denying the developers / publishers repeat income. I sent Michael a PM, admitting I bought it in a charity shop for a £1, but because I didn't have the expansions, was considering buying the Platinum version on gog.com.

Now, to me, Frontier (and Atari) are in a win / win there, as I bought the game "legally", I didn't download a pirate copy, and I am considering buying the game on a legal game site, which FD & Atari would get a (small) share of the profits from.

 

[withnail]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-29-game-dev-tycoon-forces-those-who-pirate-the-game-to-unwittingly-fail-from-piracy

"Pre-empting the game's eventual appearance on file-sharing sites, Patrick and Daniel Klug uploaded their own cracked copy of the full game. But within the code lay a few extra lines.

Those who play the pirated version are warned that their own attempts at creating games are being hampered by piracy. Profits for each project will be less than those who own and paid for the full game.

Players will eventually see their careers end in bankruptcy. "

I have played this game on my phone. If this is true then it is quite clever, however the game itself I thought was a bit pants.

 

[Darren Grey]

Now, to me, Frontier (and Atari) are in a win / win there, as I bought the game "legally", I didn't download a pirate copy, and I am considering buying the game on a legal game site, which FD & Atari would get a (small) share of the profits from.

And you gave money to charity! But the money they get from physical sales isn't great anyway, compared with digital distribution. And digital distribution has been shown to reduce piracy too, as it cuts out the excuse of "convenience". Digital is the way forwards...

 

[Selezen]

Not sure where you're seeing this inflation. With digital distribution, Steam sales, cheap bundles and many indie developers releasing at low prices there's really never been a better buyer's market for games. Console game prices have stayed steady over the years, but they've not increased.

Basic price for a PS2 game on launch was around £29.99 when the PS2 came out.
Basic price for a PS3 game on launch is £49.99.

Well the two solutions in use are intusive copy-protection (like the dreaded always-on DRM that has plagued SimCity and Diablo 3) or releasing for free/cheap and making all money through in-app purchases. The latter is especially bad, as it actually interferes with the game mechanics, leading to all sorts of horrible tricks from devs trying to get players to pay more. I don't mind cosmetic IAPs, but anything affecting the gameplay is just wrong.

I wouldn't say in-app purchases are bad, just badly managed. Most of the bad press with them is from parents who have trusted their kids and connected their iTunes accounts to the family credit card. Fools.

I like the in-app purchase idea for small games because it gives people a game to play that is unrestricted but (in some examples) might take longer to play. Games that need in-app purchases constantly in order to acheive anything I do object to. Example of the former is Pilot! for the iStuff - buy faster planes to achieve your goals quicker and the benefit is permanent. Example of the latter is any of the myriad games that need "resources" in game that either have to be earned through time or bought, otherwise you wait a day for a factory/space station/army to be built. That's just nasty.

Intrusive DRM is bad, as I hinted before, and it's largely useless - crackers will strip that out in their sleep.

 

[Darren Grey]

Basic price for a PS2 game on launch was around £29.99 when the PS2 came out.
Basic price for a PS3 game on launch is £49.99.

PS2 games were £39.99, which is the same price many top launch games were back in the 90s even. It's gone up to £50 for PS3, but over time that's swallowed by natural inflation.

I wouldn't say in-app purchases are bad, just badly managed. Most of the bad press with them is from parents who have trusted their kids and connected their iTunes accounts to the family credit card. Fools.

The problem is that cheap tactics get encouraged by IAPs - adverts to upgrade everywhere, accidental clicks, mechanics focused around addiction. IAPs can be done okay, but in general I think they naturally encourage very evil monetisation. And these days the whole system has been tarred by all the games that abuse their players.

 

[synchromesh]

Piracy i always found was more down to the expense of games.....Ye im still ed that an xbox game on release can cost nearly £50 but in 10 weeks time you can get it at half price.....Then they sell like hot cakes.....

Lesson to be learned is simple.....Value for money and a good priced game will have very little piracy issues...ED at £25 will as already proved by the kickstarter be fine ...as with Star Citizen....and the same goes for any good game.

Most pirates will try a game and if they really like it and want to play online they will buy it anyway....Its not worth the hassle these days...

The original Elite was quite expensive for its day but look what you got for your money....for me its all down to quality of the product....In the early days we really got ripped off one time or another by fantastic looking cassette covers but crap games....Piracy started as a two way thing in my opinion.......End of Rant

 

[psykokow]

Downloadable demo's for free... with a % off the main purchase..

What has stopped me from the easy cheap route to getting games is Steam.

It makes it easy, and with promotions and value for money pre-orders.. never been happier.


Love it and i curse games not available through it..

 

[Frank]

The original Elite was quite expensive for its day but look what you got for your money....

I've a fantastic idea for a DRM device. A lump of clear plastic which has a series of lenses moulded into it which distorts a mangled image on the screen into an alphanumeric code that has to be typed in before you start. If you don't get it within three goes you have to wait half an hour for your game to reload.

Overly draconian DRM only effects those actually buy the games and have to put up with the tests of authenticity.

 

[psykokow]

turn to page 563 paragraph 6 line 21 word 75 letter 3

bahhhhh its in french how do I get the accenty bit? nahahahahha *BURNS HOUSE DOWN*

 

[DigitalDuck]

I've a fantastic idea for a DRM device. A lump of clear plastic which has a series of lenses moulded into it which distorts a mangled image on the screen into an alphanumeric code that has to be typed in before you start. If you don't get it within three goes you have to wait half an hour for your game to reload.

It should also only work on TVs within a limited range of sizes...

 

[Styggron]

Huh? I missed the bit where I recommended a game.

I did buy Rollercoaster Tycoon 3 recently in a charity shop for £1.
Now there is a whole other debate as to whether doing that is denying the developers / publishers repeat income. I sent Michael a PM, admitting I bought it in a charity shop for a £1, but because I didn't have the expansions, was considering buying the Platinum version on gog.com.

Now, to me, Frontier (and Atari) are in a win / win there, as I bought the game "legally", I didn't download a pirate copy, and I am considering buying the game on a legal game site, which FD & Atari would get a (small) share of the profits from.

Heads up as in "brought it to our attention". No you didn't recommend it but it was mentioned in your post and so I thought I'd check it out and I loved the demo and so I bought it hence thanks for the heads up.

It was fun but you do "complete" it a little too quickly which is a pity also there is an annoying buy that even if you turn the music off it just comes back on again <sigh>. I called my Company "Frontier"