Where are all the ships?

[Hooplah]

OK, in Beta 2.05 we got an Asp Explorer to play with. In newsletter 44 there is an Imperial ship coming. What is the deal? Are these "eye candy" to keep us players involved?

In the coding world of gaming ships are easy to do. Take a Sidewinder coding, duplicate it 30 times and then add in the different parameters for all the ships. In years past I could do this in an hour in C++ .

The only difference is the flags pointing to the hi-rez graphics of a particular ship. Is FD still working on the graphics?

If I was employed by FD I and several other talented artists in a dedicated group in our own Department would be working on amazing ship graphics with a new design every few days. Given the current 3D apps and the follow up diagnostics apps to check for "loose polygons" there should not be an issue here.

 

[Thelas]

They could even keep bringing out ships and sell them for hundreds of dollars before the game is even out...

 

[noodle]

You're forgetting that the interiors are all fully modelled ready for the walk-around expansion, so it's not just a case of varying stats and skins.

 

[Fenris Wolf]

OK, in Beta 2.05 we got an Asp Explorer to play with. In newsletter 44 there is an Imperial ship coming. What is the deal? Are these "eye candy" to keep us players involved?

Oh look... Here is Beta and we will open it up so that you have everything all ready at this point.

That way, when we release the game you won't be interested in it as you will have already had all the ships.

 

[Toscaner]

not sure if trolling or you really totally underestimate the work involved

the concept alone would take a few days - and that starts after you actually have an idea what the ship is supposed to do
let alone modelling, rigging, shading, texturing

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Firstly it's a beta and more ships and features are coming.

Secondly, more doesn't necessarily equal better. I'd rather have a handful of well balanced and well thought out ships, than dozens of ships that just offer slight variations on each other.

 

[deusx_ophc]

They could even keep bringing out ships and sell them for hundreds of dollars before the game is even out...

awesome concept!!!

 

[Weps]

If I was employed by FD I and several other talented artists in a dedicated group in our own Department would be working on amazing ship graphics with a new design every few days. Given the current 3D apps and the follow up diagnostics apps to check for "loose polygons" there should not be an issue here.

I somehow doubt that. Feel free to work on a concept of your own which would fit the ED universe, and when you are finished post it on this forum as fan-made art. We'll see how fast you finish and if your work reaches the quality seen in game at this time.

Remember, we are talking about a fully modeled, fully textured space ship. You can skip animating the hardpoints or landing gear.

Good-luck!

 

[HoshiQaVam]

How long it takes to make the ships is completely irrelevant. You are absolutely missing the point of the staggered approach.

FD doesn't need to test the individual ship. We know how ships fly, we know the flight mechanics and physics works well, we even know the module system works well. What needs to be tested is the process, and progress, by which you attain each ship.

Does combat work well enough to earn credits? That was the focus of the final stages of Alpha.

Does trading work well enough to earn credits? That was the focus of Premium beta.

Does the mission system work well enough to earn credits? That was the focus of beta 1 and then expanded upon in beta 2.

What about exploration? While beta 2 touches on it, that'll be the focus of beta 3.

Then there's the question of the progression curve. How easy should it be to earn credits? What should the price gap be between ships? What about between modules? etc etc

All of that needs focus testing, and the best way to focus test is to limit what is available.

And, of course, there is that final and fairly important point; you don't show everyone all of your assets until the absolute last minute. If Star Citizen new what all 25 of Elite's ships were right now, they'd have several months worth of development time to try and one up ED.

Simply put, it is far more beneficial to add content in a staggered approach throughout a game's development. You don't open the flood gates to full content until the gamma phase.

That's pretty standard practice in any walk of life, not just game development.

 

[Hooplah]

My goodness...So many negative responses.

No, I'm not Trolling. I just know how the process works. In my job I often work with Hollywood companies with digital effects.

Yes, there is a difference between the ship parameters and the graphics so when you mount an equipment item to the ship it works as designed.

Don't get me wrong...If I ever win a huge lottery I'm going to invest it in, "Elite - The Movie". What would I do with all that money anyway?

 

[Ydiss]

The general industry standard and commonly most factual response to your question is "They'll release when ready". In this case, that'll be either when "it's done" or "when it's time for you to test it".

I think the typical urge is for people to dismiss your self-stated position of experience/authority on the matter - this is the internet after all - which I won't do but I would say that it's not likely that your personal or professional experience has a substantial relation to the design process of any particular development company other than those you've worked for.

 

[Hooplah]

Ydiss,

I totally agree. What works for me doesn't mean that FD is on the same development plan as I would like. I'll try to back off. I thank you for your input.

Regards

 

[StayFrosty]

I think they're just keeping most of it secret. The biggest problem with crowdfunding is indeed that there's no surprise left. I guess we all knew from the beginning that we would never see Thargoids before release, but still I expected them to reveal a bit more ships.

And it's not like those ships aren't finished, we have more than enough pointers that each ship that was revealed was in fact finished long before that. Well, at least I hope those other ships are indeed finished.

Also let's not forget that despite the 25 pilotable ships, there are going to be much more than this: capital combat ships, capital transporters, various unobtainable faction ships, various random NPC combat/cargo ships... we haven't even seen half of pilotable ships, and only a mere portion of what was promised.

The game is indeed lacking a whole lot of ships right now.

 

[gamecat]

OK, in Beta 2.05 we got an Asp Explorer to play with. In newsletter 44 there is an Imperial ship coming. What is the deal? Are these "eye candy" to keep us players involved?

In the coding world of gaming ships are easy to do. Take a Sidewinder coding, duplicate it 30 times and then add in the different parameters for all the ships. In years past I could do this in an hour in C++ .

The only difference is the flags pointing to the hi-rez graphics of a particular ship. Is FD still working on the graphics?

If I was employed by FD I and several other talented artists in a dedicated group in our own Department would be working on amazing ship graphics with a new design every few days. Given the current 3D apps and the follow up diagnostics apps to check for "loose polygons" there should not be an issue here.

I'm more for quality than quantity. 20 amazing ships are worth more than 200 rushed out ships. I know its nowhere near as easy as your trying to make out. Which parameters do you change? How fast is the ship? how much cargo? how many hardpoints? how many system mods? There is no point making ships for their own sake. Even when you get a rough prototype how does it fit into the game without breaking it or being useless so no-one will buy it. It simply makes no sense to churn out mediocrity that will need patching. Its not how fast you can code/build the ships; its how the ship fits into the bigger picture of the game without ruining it that takes time.

Of course I'd love to see more ships, but at this stage I'd rather the ships are balanced and compliment the game (and look as awesome as possible) before creating more ships.

 

[Hooplah]

I think MMOG is the issue. If it was just another Elite game we download and play locally on our computers then we would have 30+ ships tomorrow. But FD is trying to balance out the ships as to be playable in MMOG. So they are going slowly.

I suggest that they just throw in all the ships that have been developed and see what happens. It is after all Beta and not the full version. Sure there will be issues but we play them in Beta and figure out the issues. I'm not looking for eye candy at the moment. I'm looking for the basics testing the parameters of each specific ship and giving FD some replies as to how they work or don't work. When all that is done they will have a clearer decision as to what should be implemented in MMOG. Just a suggestion.

I'm seeing two issues here. FD is developing a stand alone game on a computer with specific sales. But they are also working on making profits in the MMOG version. That is a conflict as FD is trying to work two different aspects of the game and they won't make a decision on the local version without considering the MMOG version. Thus with several depatments approving all updates it comes to a very slow process to go to the final version.

My suggestion is to throw everything FD has into the Beta version. Then let 100,000 players tear it apart and work out all the bugs. Then we go to Gamma and tweak it for MMOG.

Maybe the 30 ships graphics won't be complete, but the paramaters will be tested and verified.

Games are very expensive to produce as well as major motion pictures. The costs are rediculous. But I'm not seeing a separation in costs per the download version versus the MMOG one. You need to apply it to one side to make everything work as in the download version then when it all works then apply to your bankers and investors to move foward with MMOG. It's the money thing. But if one sold this idea as MMOG in the first place then there will be issues.

There are solutions to this as in a negotiator between the bankers and investors and the FD developers to work out a solution. It can be done.

It gets worse with the legal systems in the UK just paying off in past court cases so FD could move on with this game. Again there are solutions.

 

[Vlodec]

i somehow doubt that. Feel free to work on a concept of your own which would fit the ed universe, and when you are finished post it on this forum as fan-made art. We'll see how fast you finish and if your work reaches the quality seen in game at this time.

Remember, we are talking about a fully modeled, fully textured space ship. You can skip animating the hardpoints or landing gear.

Good-luck!

+1

--------

 

[Armour]

I don't see why the devs can't just procedurally generate a whole bunch of additional ships. That way there can be thousands of different models.

The devs have worked out what needs to be in each ship. They know how the various conduits connect up. They know how a ship should be shaped (roughly) in order to be "shipshape", and they seem to have some kind of style guide (curves for some ships and angles for others). It can't be that hard to generate a "random" hull shape and fit stuff on/in it based upon some fundamental rules, surely?

 

[Vandaahl]

OK, in Beta 2.05 we got an Asp Explorer to play with. In newsletter 44 there is an Imperial ship coming. What is the deal? Are these "eye candy" to keep us players involved?

In the coding world of gaming ships are easy to do. Take a Sidewinder coding, duplicate it 30 times and then add in the different parameters for all the ships. In years past I could do this in an hour in C++ .

The only difference is the flags pointing to the hi-rez graphics of a particular ship. Is FD still working on the graphics?

If I was employed by FD I and several other talented artists in a dedicated group in our own Department would be working on amazing ship graphics with a new design every few days. Given the current 3D apps and the follow up diagnostics apps to check for "loose polygons" there should not be an issue here.

If it is that easy to do, whats the point doing it now? They might as well do it 5 minutes to twelve and invest their precious time now in getting network issues fixed.

 

[xrootedx]

Your idea has been duly noted and duly rejected.

 

[Commander Debic]

They could even keep bringing out ships and sell them for hundreds of dollars before the game is even out...

They already do that....wait...no......I thought I was on the Other Game......you know....... the one that hasn't even got Hotas control bindings worked out yet....but they do have lots of pretty ships for hunnereds and faousands of muzumas.