Why Are Space Legs and Atmospheric Landings Such a Hot Topic?

[Gamatech]

Hi all o7

I have just graduated from a computer games course at university, and I have to say the hype and discussion around space legs and atmospheric landings really bugs me.

Both of these things are monumental undertakings, they are MAJOR alterations to the established capabilities and design of the game and will no doubt take immense amounts of resources, time, and effort to create. Spacelegs (debatably) has no place in a space flight sim, and will add very little to the gameplay even if it was implimented. Atmospheric landings on the other hand would be astronomically power hungry and require unparalleled game technologies and asset counts to work alongside already established mechanics. We're talking cloud cover, atmospheric readings, weather patters, countless assets for numerous different environments (cities, towns, villages, jungles, water bodies, populous, desserts, ice caps etc), water generation system, and much much more. That's without even considering life forms in earth-like worlds, we'd need hundreds if not thousands of varieties to cover the galaxy.

Even setting aside all of these obsticles, I may be wrong, but I don't recall the devs ever saying they plan on doing either of these sought after features. The most I've ever heard was a brief mention of them in the very early access stages of development, and plans are changed and cancelled in the games industry more than any other.

So I'd really like to know, why are players so invested in the concept of space legs and atmospheric landings? If we DO get them it certainly won't be in anything resembling a foreseeable future, and it's more likely in my opinion that they would have just been scrapped altogether (if there was any serious consideration for them early on in the first place). I can understand the passion, hype, and desire for these things. But the blunt truth is that I just don't see it happening, both from a technical and practical perspective.

 

[Kerrash]

My guess would be that people see elements of games design that they like in other titles and want it to be a part of their favourite game.
Developers have responded to this public desire by continuing to blur the genre lines and the industry seems hell bent on merging into a homogeneous parallel reality.

 

[5 Puppis]

I actively do not want space legs or atmo landings for the exact reasons you listed. To do either well would be basically building a whole new game.

I hope the devs focus more on mission variety and improved storytelling.

 

[Conch]

Altho i would welcome space legs.. i rather have more ships..

 

[Whiterose]

Because it was sort of promised when during an interview DB stated he would like wild game hunting. Atmospheric landing and space legs are therefore necessary for such an undertaking.

 

[Jenner]

David B mentioned them during the kickstarter as goals, and people love the game and want to see it evolve and get even better.

Whether or not either or both of these features would really improve the game is another question, but I don't think it's difficult to see why people would be starry-eyed about it. Many of us love to play this game because of the fantasy/wish fulfillment of being a spaceship captain in this universe. Given that, why wouldn't we want to increase the width and depth of activities we could experience?

Again, I'm not saying that adding everything to the game would be beneficial.... just look at what's going on at at a certain nameless other dev studio at the moment.... but surely the desire for such is understandable.

I just hope that FD find a way to sensibly add these features to the game in a way that adds to the experience rather than detract from it.

 

[Tomx]

Hi all o7

I have just graduated from a computer games course at university, and I have to say the hype and discussion around space legs and atmospheric landings really bugs me.

Both of these things are monumental undertakings, they are MAJOR alterations to the established capabilities and design of the game and will no doubt take immense amounts of resources, time, and effort to create. Spacelegs (debatably) has no place in a space flight sim, and will add very little to the gameplay even if it was implimented. Atmospheric landings on the other hand would be astronomically power hungry and require unparalleled game technologies and asset counts to work alongside already established mechanics. We're talking cloud cover, atmospheric readings, whether patters, countless assets for numerous different environments (cities, towns, villages, jungles, water bodies, populous, desserts, ice caps etc), water generation system, and much much more. That's without even considering life forms in earth-like world's, we'd need hundreds if not thousands of varieties to cover the galaxy.

Even setting aside all of these obsticles, I may be wrong, but I don't recall the devs ever saying they plan on doing either of these sought after features. The most I've ever heard was a brief mention of them in the very early access stages of development, and plans are changed and cancelled in the games industry more than any other.

So I'd really like to know, why are players so invested in the concept of space legs and atmospheric landings? If we DO get them it certainly won't be in anything resembling a foreseeable future, and it's more likely in my opinion that they would have just been scrapped altogether (if there was any serious consideration for them early on in the first place). I can understand the passion, hype, and desire for these things. But the blunt truth is that I just don't see it happening, both from a technical and practical perspective.

Well atmospheric planetary landings were present in previous iterations (Frontier 2) had atmospheric earthlike and waterworld planets that you could land on which were great to land on.

Procedural generation of atmospheric planets and cities has been done, all of which would just be really cool - hopefully there would be some more game play to do down there and you can't tell me you've not wanted to go down and look at all those cities etc. Plus it's mentioned so much in all the lore. It has been mentioned by the devs.
Spacelegs I'm less convinced about - people seem to want it to bring in many more changes in terms of integrating the different elements of the game (Something which David Braben stated was part of the original concept of elite - i.e. change this leads to this leads to that etc. which doesn't seem to be there yet but I'm not so sure it will inherently come from having spacelegs - just as multicrew was delivered because it was so requested but now seems underused.)

Frontier are developing expertise in planet genration (planetcoaster) and animals (Jurassic Park) so it should be doable. Other games have shown procdural generation of earthlike planets is possilbe. Obsidian's video now a couple of years ago shows what's possible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGVEAH07Td0 and would be great if similar could be done. Lots of oppourtunities.... happy to wait for it though!

And it certainly was/is being worked on: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...tor_of_elite/d3k96iy/?st=j977qfnx&sh=20f8b1c8

Lots of things on the future list that look great though

https://elitedangerous2016.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/beyond-the-horizon/

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hi all o7

I have just graduated from a computer games course at university, and I have to say the hype and discussion around space legs and atmospheric landings really bugs me.

Both of these things are monumental undertakings, they are MAJOR alterations to the established capabilities and design of the game and will no doubt take immense amounts of resources, time, and effort to create. Spacelegs (debatably) has no place in a space flight sim, and will add very little to the gameplay even if it was implimented. Atmospheric landings on the other hand would be astronomically power hungry and require unparalleled game technologies and asset counts to work alongside already established mechanics. We're talking cloud cover, atmospheric readings, whether patters, countless assets for numerous different environments (cities, towns, villages, jungles, water bodies, populous, desserts, ice caps etc), water generation system, and much much more. That's without even considering life forms in earth-like world's, we'd need hundreds if not thousands of varieties to cover the galaxy.

Even setting aside all of these obsticles, I may be wrong, but I don't recall the devs ever saying they plan on doing either of these sought after features. The most I've ever heard was a brief mention of them in the very early access stages of development, and plans are changed and cancelled in the games industry more than any other.

So I'd really like to know, why are players so invested in the concept of space legs and atmospheric landings? If we DO get them it certainly won't be in anything resembling a foreseeable future, and it's more likely in my opinion that they would have just been scrapped altogether (if there was any serious consideration for them early on in the first place). I can understand the passion, hype, and desire for these things. But the blunt truth is that I just don't see it happening, both from a technical and practical perspective.

They said they would like to do both. Repeatedly. Beyond that, the reason for it being such a Big Topic is because space sims tend to encourage people to dream of the Everything Game. And Everything includes walking on alien planets, its easily among the most evocative images in many people's minds when thinking about space and sci-fi. As for doable:

1) They demoed a procgen cloud system before ED was launched.
2) They are working on modular fauna and all kinds of flora for JWE, which uses the same engine.
3) They are working on additional planet tech for q1 and Q4 2018.

It all seems to point quite heavily that they are willing to give atmo planets a shot.

 

[Urbanski101]

FDev have also just got the Jurassic Park franchise.

I'd imagine quite a lot of those assets, flora, fauna, wildlife, weather, geography, geology etc... and the 'legs' part could be developed for JP and then ported over to ED.

I agree though, both of those additions are huge undertakings, as big as making the original game.

Time will tell.

 

[Imgran]

I can do without either of them, and in any case I'd hope ED would take the time to do them correctly.

I think though that the way ED is set up, it's sort of modular, with loading screens and instancing separating various modes from each other. I think that would make it easier to get new systems into the old game. Especially if they abandoned the idea of atmospheric landing, and added a generic landing craft.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Dreams. Dreams about games people imagine would be fun to play.

 

[Suvi Anwar]

Did we need yet another current topic discussing the same thing? Really?

 

[Jenner]

Dreams. Dreams about games people imagine would be fun to play.

Well, yeah. We're all dreamers. The Kickstarter was definitely just a bunch of people dreaming of a game they imagined would be fun to play.

 

[sollisb]

Dear God, no legs on planets please! We'll end up back at NMS. People get legs on planets, then they'll want somewhere to go with those legs. Then those places will need facilities. Then those faciities will need protection. Then there'll be battle to test those defenses.. Where will it all lead?

Just hire some decent coders, a project team, and fix the current mess already.

 

[lokvette]

Did we need yet another current topic discussing the same thing? Really?

Agreed this topic needs its own hotel.

 

[Jack Schitt]

To Launch, And Beyond with the Lifetime Expansion Pass

Elite: Dangerous is on track to launch in late 2014 (Q4).

But that won’t stop development. We plan to continue to significantly enhance the game via further expansions after the launch date, using the same incremental development philosophy that we’ve used so far.

Major new features will include planetary landings and even walking around inside ships, stations, and planet surfaces with time.

For those who have a Lifetime Expansion Pass (included in Premium Beta and Alpha, and also still available here until 29th July) all such significant expansion will be included. Those without the Lifetime Expansion Pass will be charged for each expansion as they are released.

We have made no secret that our ultimate ambition is to be able to land on the surface of planets, as you were able to in the other Elite sequels Frontier and Frontier: First Encounters.

We want this feature to push the boundaries as we believe we are doing in other areas of Elite: Dangerous already, like space flight, combat, trading, sound, online, visual fidelity etc.

That means rich, varied experiences. Not just landing pads, but rich content on the surfaces, surface vehicles, the ability to stash things there, to explore. Clearly ‘doing it right’ like this will take time, but we have a plan and will get there via a series of meaningful releases.

We believe that each stage will be incredible, and the result truly breathtaking. What you will see on the worlds will be a mix of procedurally generated content, particularly the landscapes, cloudscapes, compositions and so on, mixed with hand-crafted elements.

We also plan to allow you to get up out of your seat and walk around your ship. You can see the level of attention and thought that has already been given to the ship interiors from these ship cockpit views in this video:

[...]

Of course walking round your ship will be nice, but it is the just springboard for a very significant expansion of gameplay – you will be able to experience the inside of starports and interact with other players and AI characters, and even board other people’s ships in space and take them by force, as shown in this concept piece.

[...]

Of course this will be further expanded to include walking around on the surfaces of planets too.

Alpha and Premium Beta customers, and those who have already bought the £35 Lifetime Expansion Pass alongside either Beta or the full game, will have access to all these features and updates for as long as we create them at no further cost.

This means that if we are as successful as we hope to be, you will still be benefiting from the fantastic early support you gave us for a long time to come.

On 29th July the Lifetime Expansion Pass will no longer be available to buy in the store shop, to coincide with the launch of Beta 1.

So if you are planning to join the Beta or buy the final game and want to add the Lifetime Expansion Pass, you now have until 29th July to get automatic access to all future major paid-for expansions of Elite: Dangerous for £35.

You can purchase the Lifetime Expansion Pass here.

Each paid-for expansion will subsequently be put on sale separately (for people that don’t have the Lifetime Expansion Pass).

That's why.

 

[Ddraig]

The game is all about the ship and you. So it is only logical to expect to be able to see the whole of my ship and that includes the interiors. So, I want the space legs to be able to see my ship´s insides, maybe manually go to the SLF or the SRV as an option to a simple window clic.

Atmo planets are something that come along the fact that you can land on rock planets. Why one and not the others? Once landable planets became available, going to all other types of planets becomes a given.

 

[[VR] Marrs]

I want it as realistic as possible ready for when we can upload our conciousness in around 2050.

Plus David Braben pretty much confirmed Space Legs in a Reddit AMA and ... why wouldn't you want to be able to land on every planet in the game?

 

[Ambroza]

People want them because they were promised to us, and it's widely believed that they will constitute major steps towards Braben's vision of a living galaxy simulation.

Even setting aside all of these obsticles, I may be wrong, but I don't recall the devs ever saying they plan on doing either of these sought after features. The most I've ever heard was a brief mention of them in the very early access stages of development, and plans are changed and cancelled in the games industry more than any other.

Yes, you are wrong. Both atmospheric landings and ambulation have been spoken about by Frontier many times, and they continuously re-affirm their desire to implement these features. The most recent examples of this are just a few weeks old.

 

[sollisb]

The game is all about the ship and you. So it is only logical to expect to be able to see the whole of my ship and that includes the interiors. So, I want the space legs to be able to see my ship´s insides, maybe manually go to the SLF or the SRV as an option to a simple window clic.

Atmo planets are something that come along the fact that you can land on rock planets. Why one and not the others? Once landable planets became available, going to all other types of planets becomes a given.

I would consider that, an entire waste of development time. Would I like to see the inside of my ship? Sure? How many times? em.. Once would be enough...

A better option would be to show the interior as you used relevant parts. Taking on Ammo? Show the arsenal. Taking on goods? Show the cargo area. Etc etc.. Why you need to walk around?

Here's a thing. Right now I have VR. I can see the entire bridge and all behind me. Not once have I said oh.. I wanna walk thru those doors.

The only part of the ship we need to be interested in is the front