Why do people want Interiors? An Analysis and suggestion.

People have been begging for Ship Interiors for years. This has always been a bit of an oddity to me, since most of these people don't seem to know what they really even want.

Sure, if you press them, they can come up with any number of ideas, but those ideas don't seem to be present by default; they are created as a result of the desire, they are not the cause of the desire.

So why do people want ship interiors? I think I have an idea.

My basic idea comes from a suggestion by noted author Brandon Sanderson. He's an author who has achieved success not by great inspiration or skill, but rather, by very carefully analyzing and deconstructing the technical aspects of writing. He knows why people want what they want, and how to give it to them.

And one of the things he advocates is having a group to read your work, and give you advice. BUT - and this is where things become relevant to Elite - he very strongly advises against letting them tell you what should happen next. Instead, he says that they should tell you how they FEEL at that particular moment, and then use those feelings to create your own answer.

So the question, I think, is more basic than why people want interiors. People want interiors because they are feeling an emotion that translates into wanting interiors. Interiors, I believe, are actually just a cultural construct, built atop the cornerstone that is that basic unsatisfied emotion. But what IS that emotion?

I think it's complex.

Think, for a moment, about how you get out of your ship. It starts when you drop in 10km out, and need to fly within 7.5km to request docking permission. Then you need to fly around the station to find the slot, dodge incoming and outgoing traffic, fly inside, find your pad, deploy landing gear, go through the entire landing process, and navigate a menu to disembark. Every single aspect is designed to add realism and verisimillitude; you wouldn't NEED to have to, say, request docking permission, but needing to do so makes the game seem deeper and more realistic. Every step is like this - right up until you go to disembark your ship, at which point you vanish in a poof of smoke, have a harsh black loading screen, and appear on the ground. This feels wrong. It's completely contrary to everything that went before it; it throws you out of the game, dispels your suspension of disbelief.

Getting back into your ship is somewhat similar. You walk out and look up at your huge ship, with very obvious logical boarding locations - which you then ignore, and go to an incongruous blue circle. You then poof into your pilot's seat. It feels wrong.

Honestly, this problem has existed prior to Odyssey, too. The SRV is a prime example, and this is what really got me thinking about this.

In Elite, you run up to the SRV, which has an obvious door. You ignore that, and activate the SRV, only to get a menu you must navigate. On navigating it, you get a black screen, at which point you appear inside the SRV. There is a fairly prolonged period of time where you can notice the tiny bits of annoyance. Compare and contrast this with a game like Star Wars Battlefront 2. In that game, you run up to any vehicle, press a single button, and you are INSTANTLY inside that vehicle. You have no time to worry about how you got inside; it's time to play the game!

I think it's these little annoyances that are truly what are making players want interiors. Each on their own seems small, but combined together, they do become a significant overall negative. I don't think most of the CONTENT suggestions for interiors are very good, but I still recognize that I would find the game much more satisfying if, for example with the SRV, rather than navigating the menu and then blackscreening inside, I could press a button to open the door, and press another button to sit down, and seamlessly take control. Same goes for ships; I would find it infinitely more satisfying to activate the ladder or stairs, appear in the back of the cockpit, and walk to my seat, rather than go to the blue ring and teleport into the seat. It's almost intangible, but it's definitely there.

---

The question becomes, what sort of content could justify this? And that got me thinking. Engineering has been one of the main complaints about Elite, right? Many players feel compelled to engineer just to do much of anything. And engineering is extremely powerful. But engineering is also grindy.

What if we added an alternative to engineering? I'm talking about CALIBRATION.

Here's the idea. Inside your ship, possibly even just inside your cockpit, you could walk around and access different menus based on your different subsystems. Using these menus, you could calibrate your different modules to offer TEMPORARY increased performance, at G3-G4 levels. For example, if you wanted long-range lasers, you could do a temporary range calibration on them, increasing their range for, say, 1000 shots/1 reload. The effect would gradually wear off, reducing with each additional shot. The reason it would need to be around your cockpit instead of at your pilot's seat is because these calibrations should not be something you could change on the fly DURING a fight, since it wouldn't be much fun to always have the exact modification needed; it should be something you do before the fight to buff up.

This would allow players to access some degree of engineering without doing any engineering at all! The benefits of engineering would be that the effects would be permanent, they would reduce the difficulty of the calibration minigame, and overall increase performance beyond what is avaialble from Calibration. For example, completing the hardest minigame might allow you to get +75% range on your weapons, compared to +100% for G5 engineering; getting G1 long range would reduce that difficulty down by 25%, and getting G5 would remove the need to calibrate at all, though you could still calibrate to temporarly change effects as needed, removing the engineering effect and replacing it with a different one. Of course, some effects would not be available via calibration at all.

This would also synergize with Multicrew, since your crewmates COULD run calibrations mid-fight, to adjust your arsenal as needed.

This would offer new content, that has a reason to justify interiors, allowing for the basics to be added; namely, removing the blue circle, allowing players to get out of their ships organically, and reducing this long-term source of frustration.

So...what do you think?
 
Meh, interiors are ok, but i'm playing a game about space. I want to see and explore more of that space. Have more space and ground based content, gas giants that can be entered, flora and fauna.
 
People have been begging for Ship Interiors for years. This has always been a bit of an oddity to me, since most of these people don't seem to know what they really even want.

Sure, if you press them, they can come up with any number of ideas, but those ideas don't seem to be present by default; they are created as a result of the desire, they are not the cause of the desire.

So why do people want ship interiors? I think I have an idea.

My basic idea comes from a suggestion by noted author Brandon Sanderson. He's an author who has achieved success not by great inspiration or skill, but rather, by very carefully analyzing and deconstructing the technical aspects of writing. He knows why people want what they want, and how to give it to them.

And one of the things he advocates is having a group to read your work, and give you advice. BUT - and this is where things become relevant to Elite - he very strongly advises against letting them tell you what should happen next. Instead, he says that they should tell you how they FEEL at that particular moment, and then use those feelings to create your own answer.

So the question, I think, is more basic than why people want interiors. People want interiors because they are feeling an emotion that translates into wanting interiors. Interiors, I believe, are actually just a cultural construct, built atop the cornerstone that is that basic unsatisfied emotion. But what IS that emotion?

I think it's complex.

Think, for a moment, about how you get out of your ship. It starts when you drop in 10km out, and need to fly within 7.5km to request docking permission. Then you need to fly around the station to find the slot, dodge incoming and outgoing traffic, fly inside, find your pad, deploy landing gear, go through the entire landing process, and navigate a menu to disembark. Every single aspect is designed to add realism and verisimillitude; you wouldn't NEED to have to, say, request docking permission, but needing to do so makes the game seem deeper and more realistic. Every step is like this - right up until you go to disembark your ship, at which point you vanish in a poof of smoke, have a harsh black loading screen, and appear on the ground. This feels wrong. It's completely contrary to everything that went before it; it throws you out of the game, dispels your suspension of disbelief.

Getting back into your ship is somewhat similar. You walk out and look up at your huge ship, with very obvious logical boarding locations - which you then ignore, and go to an incongruous blue circle. You then poof into your pilot's seat. It feels wrong.

Honestly, this problem has existed prior to Odyssey, too. The SRV is a prime example, and this is what really got me thinking about this.

In Elite, you run up to the SRV, which has an obvious door. You ignore that, and activate the SRV, only to get a menu you must navigate. On navigating it, you get a black screen, at which point you appear inside the SRV. There is a fairly prolonged period of time where you can notice the tiny bits of annoyance. Compare and contrast this with a game like Star Wars Battlefront 2. In that game, you run up to any vehicle, press a single button, and you are INSTANTLY inside that vehicle. You have no time to worry about how you got inside; it's time to play the game!

I think it's these little annoyances that are truly what are making players want interiors. Each on their own seems small, but combined together, they do become a significant overall negative. I don't think most of the CONTENT suggestions for interiors are very good, but I still recognize that I would find the game much more satisfying if, for example with the SRV, rather than navigating the menu and then blackscreening inside, I could press a button to open the door, and press another button to sit down, and seamlessly take control. Same goes for ships; I would find it infinitely more satisfying to activate the ladder or stairs, appear in the back of the cockpit, and walk to my seat, rather than go to the blue ring and teleport into the seat. It's almost intangible, but it's definitely there.

---

The question becomes, what sort of content could justify this? And that got me thinking. Engineering has been one of the main complaints about Elite, right? Many players feel compelled to engineer just to do much of anything. And engineering is extremely powerful. But engineering is also grindy.

What if we added an alternative to engineering? I'm talking about CALIBRATION.

Here's the idea. Inside your ship, possibly even just inside your cockpit, you could walk around and access different menus based on your different subsystems. Using these menus, you could calibrate your different modules to offer TEMPORARY increased performance, at G3-G4 levels. For example, if you wanted long-range lasers, you could do a temporary range calibration on them, increasing their range for, say, 1000 shots/1 reload. The effect would gradually wear off, reducing with each additional shot. The reason it would need to be around your cockpit instead of at your pilot's seat is because these calibrations should not be something you could change on the fly DURING a fight, since it wouldn't be much fun to always have the exact modification needed; it should be something you do before the fight to buff up.

This would allow players to access some degree of engineering without doing any engineering at all! The benefits of engineering would be that the effects would be permanent, they would reduce the difficulty of the calibration minigame, and overall increase performance beyond what is avaialble from Calibration. For example, completing the hardest minigame might allow you to get +75% range on your weapons, compared to +100% for G5 engineering; getting G1 long range would reduce that difficulty down by 25%, and getting G5 would remove the need to calibrate at all, though you could still calibrate to temporarly change effects as needed, removing the engineering effect and replacing it with a different one. Of course, some effects would not be available via calibration at all.

This would also synergize with Multicrew, since your crewmates COULD run calibrations mid-fight, to adjust your arsenal as needed.

This would offer new content, that has a reason to justify interiors, allowing for the basics to be added; namely, removing the blue circle, allowing players to get out of their ships organically, and reducing this long-term source of frustration.

So...what do you think?

Anything that removes that ugly blue circle & black screen will be a god send CMDR! I mean the stairs are there, the cockpit interiors are there...just some final animation to the seat ...;)
 
Anything that removes that ugly blue circle & black screen will be a god send CMDR! I mean the stairs are there, the cockpit interiors are there...just some final animation to the seat ...;)

The black screen is a transition between 2 modes of play, it will still be there, except you will get a black screen and then be standing by your seat and then have to walk through the door, down the corridors and down the stairs before finally setting foot on the ground.
 
So why do people want ship interiors?
(Go on, I’ll be the one to post the video 😁)
For me, because of this lot:
Source: https://youtu.be/8yd-m9AR7mY

I would find the game much more satisfying if, for example with the SRV, rather than navigating the menu and then blackscreening inside, I could press a button to open the door, and press another button to sit down, and seamlessly take control. Same goes for ships; I would find it infinitely more satisfying to activate the ladder or stairs, appear in the back of the cockpit, and walk to my seat, rather than go to the blue ring and teleport into the seat.
I’d rather have a forced animation than the blackscreen listen-to-the-footsteps teleport we have now, and I’m playing in VR 😁 (I know this would be a nausea trigger for many but I like the getting into vehicles animations in Cyberpunk 2077 which I’m playing with a VR mod).

Anything in the game that gets me closer to a Han Solo simulator* (or Garrus simulator from your suggestions 😁) would be a plus for me.

*the “I’ve made a lot of special modifications myself” part, not the kissing princesses bit 😁
 
Because they pledged to Star Citizen thinking it would be more than Tech Demo that it is. But after 10 years, their hope has vanished and now they try to turn Elite Dangerous in to Star Citizen.
But one look at reality: Fleet Carrier Interiors, should discourage anyone from asking for Ship Interiors in Elite Dangerous.

The current War with Thargoids is much better time investment by Developers, as it has bigger impact on the game than Ship Interiors ever would.
 
People want ship interiors because ED doesnt have them, while the other not-game has them.

I personally don't really want them - running between on-foot station mission kiosks and in-ship mission board means way more jogging that i really want in this type of interiors-gameplay
And I also dont regard as gameplay having to defend my ship from on-foot intruders or pertaining in home-invasion type of scenarios - not in Elite at least.

Edit: and while i do play 3 accounts and i do have 3 carriers on them - i rarely disembark on my carriers and i only do it if i have to trade something using the bartender, else i skip any on-foot carrier "gameplay".
Even tho i do have the vista genomics on all3 of them, i never sold anything - i'd rather sell at a normal station without any penalty (it's enough that i pay 10% for my crew, i dont want to pay 12.5% more only to sell at a carrier)
 
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It’s not that complex.

A certain percentage of the player base would like interiors because initially FD proposed them very early on, they had mood boards, some animations, and talked about it openly.

What FD failed to do is communicate and manage this expectation.

Some (no all) keep discussing it because there is this false perception that FD are working towards a plan of development. This IMOP is wish fulfilment based primarily upon nostalgia, the reality is much polemic and less palatable, and likely FD utilise and perpetuate this feeling.

This is also a forum, and FD state they do read it for ideas (!) so there is really no harm posting such concepts, but ultimately it’s FD decision, if they think it’s a fiscally viable product, and if they need the investment they might think about it?

The ‘Scorpion’ SRV was developed years prior to Odyssey, but FD kept it on a shelf. We are effectively permanently kept in the dark, the only power we have is to project our imagination against a blank wall.
 
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Interiors would suck: imagine you enter your ship and instead of immediately launching you just need to do another walk of 4 minutes to take a seat - yeah I hope those guys who wish for it will get it and need to walk endless tunnels. For me just let me play and launch my ship.
Btw. I wouldnt mind if I could access on-foot terminals from my cockpit instead immmersive walking through the station.
 
That’s the primary issue right there proposed by FD on launch of Odyssey.

They said themselves it would be boring to run down corridors all day.

However, it was FD themselves who developed and then proposed this very concept of running down corridors, fighting other Cmdrs, fixing stuff, floating around, getting limbs blown off etc. pie in the sky.

FD failed by not adequately communicating at that time, ‘this is not where we are headed’.

They sort of did in a way, to those that were listening, to the one or two Devs who did talk, sadly no longer employed, and ironically those same Devs who proposed said ideas in the first place!

Interiors could be interesting. But if people don’t want them, simply don’t build them. If there is a market for them, they might put them in. The questioning is how much would FD put in?

Personally if you asked this question circa 2017 many would expect something impressive, based upon the proposals presented by FD. Sadly it’s more likely (based on the example provided by odyssey) that if this was done now it wouldn’t.

Besides this is a game. There are two ways to avoid such conflict. One the players don’t install that DLC, and FD monitors the income. Two they build in a no thank you button in the main menu, to switch it off.

Very much like how they did with Odyssey and Odyssey lite (4.0). I don’t play Odyssey, don’t care for it, not impressed by it, apart from a poor version of ‘Fortnight’ it’s essentially empty. FD seem to acknowledge this generally so thankfully built 4.0 ergo Odyssey lite which I’m much happier about. All the charm but none of the legs.

Odyssey was essentially written off in the last fiscal period. The potential lost income absorbed by their collective profits. So the question is does FD think interiors are a wise investment?
 
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It's about immersion.

I know some people hate and ridicule that word, but that's what it comes down to.
The main difference between Elite and Star Citizen in terms of approach to subject is balance between focus on immersion and gameplay.
SC is all about immersion - it's even in the title, suggesting you are going to be able to "live" in virtual world of some kind of space adventure. For this reason there are ship interiors, ability to use bed, walk around, do all kinds of seemingly mundane tasks, like riding train or whatever.
Elite is more focused on gameplay, because it has roots in simple arcade shooter of the 80's. That's why every interaction is basically centered around fire button (even if you want to learn some lore information in game, you need to fly towards some beacon and "shoot it" to get some snippet of info. It can be immersive, but its not its main concern.

People who want interiors in Elite just wish for little more of this kind of approach. Some people really want to immerse themselves in their fantasy of space adventure and I would say, judging from SC success in gathering money, there's a lot of those.

I would enjoy them in Elite I guess. But the problem with them and Elite is that it would be hard to fit them into the game's philosophy as it is. In Elite gameplay revolves around constantly repeating short, rather simple tasks, which would mean that things like interiors could become annoying for some people.
Sometimes I think a hybrid between SC and Elite would be great.
Honestly, I'm waiting for Starfield to get my fix in all those areas that Elite is not filling for me.
 
Interiors would suck: imagine you enter your ship and instead of immediately launching you just need to do another walk of 4 minutes to take a seat - yeah I hope those guys who wish for it will get it and need to walk endless tunnels. For me just let me play and launch my ship.
Btw. I wouldnt mind if I could access on-foot terminals from my cockpit instead immmersive walking through the station.
There is a thing called "options" think about it one day.
 
The black screen is a transition between 2 modes of play, it will still be there, except you will get a black screen and then be standing by your seat and then have to walk through the door, down the corridors and down the stairs before finally setting foot on the ground.
FDEV have places in the game where they mask that transition pretty well. Hyperspace jumps, going to and from supercruise, using the lift between concourse and hangar.
Interiors would suck: imagine you enter your ship and instead of immediately launching you just need to do another walk of 4 minutes to take a seat - yeah I hope those guys who wish for it will get it and need to walk endless tunnels. For me just let me play and launch my ship.
Btw. I wouldnt mind if I could access on-foot terminals from my cockpit instead immmersive walking through the station.
This argument has been repeated ad nauseam and is still WRONG. It's only like that if you implement it badly. Both the entrance airlock and the various places inside the ship could be entrance points to an internal lift system. You want to board and take off ? Enter the boarding airlock, enter the lift system and pick cockpit. Short whirring while the new environment outside loads, door opens, welcome to your cockpit. The only steps to then need to take are to your pilot seat. And if you want to actually go to the rest of the ship interior, then there are doors going there too, bypassing the transit system.
 
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Again I don’t think the answer is; can FD do it, not would it be fun, but ultimately do FD see it as a fiscally viable option?

Short answers is I suspect no.

Since 2016 when FD dropped its brilliant idea for fully immersive NPC crews, one can presume this is when the dynamic changed. One might presume from various leaks, ED was placed in limbo and they focused on other titles and used ED as a reliable cash-cow on life support.

Likewise I look forward to Starfield however it’s evidently just Fall Out in space, it’s lauded for its immersive elements but being devils advocate, one might presume these are more transitory and basic than they are being promoted.

If they aren’t and Starfield makes a killing, we might hold out hope FD see an opportunity and capitalise on this idea. It’s up to them in the end.

Personally I’d like to know how much skins make for FD? These are relatively cheap to produce and evidently by their profundity, profitable. Ignoring the immersive benefits of interiors for a moment, one has to consider how profitable would ship interior and NPC skins be?

But again this is down to game-play loops , and immersion. Personally there are so many options to choose from, it could be so cool, yet if we look too odyssey for examples of FD opinion, we fail to see them employing this same ethos, Odyssey interiors are cold, dull and filled with robotic NPCs, also FD did not design these as immersive environments, they called them ‘social hubs’ eg ‘waiting rooms’. Sadly it doesn’t fill me with expectation that they have even given this the slightest sliver of thought.

We then have the game engine. I don’t suspect it would limit implementation, however I would presume it could impact playability, effectively locking us into single player interior environments, (not a bad thing) although with imagination one could circumvent such culdesacs?

Again this is the crux of the matter. For FD to do interiors justice, they need to invest heavily. They relatively didn’t in Odyssey, some presumed even that it was all out-sourced!

If Odyssey is to be held up as an example (irrelevant of the additional work they had to employ to fix it), it’s a poor example for their ability to do interiors justice.

Personally it’s more likely FD can’t afford it.
 
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FDEV have places in the game where they mask that transition pretty well. Hyperspace jumps, going to and from supercruise, using the lift between concourse and hangar.

They do indeed. I suppose they could just play an animation of you getting up from the chair during the change in game modes, but the problem arises, what happens if this change varies in length, as it does sometimes with hyperspace jumps, it's far more difficult disguising a fixed length, "getting out of the chair animation" than it is to do it with a lift or hyperspace jump as they can essentially be looped as long as necessary, and how many people have we had here complaining about the drop out when entering glide mode because it suddenly takes a few more seconds. I can't imaging people would be happy to suddenly find themselves frozen in a standstill next to the chair because the transition is taking slightly longer, as it does sometimes with the black screen, I have spent a few seconds sitting there looking at the black screen wondering if it's locked up as it does on the rare occaision.

If they were going to use something to disguise the mode change it would have to be a lot more creative and complicated than just a getting out of the chair animation, you can only stretch that out for so long. As I have said before, I am not against ship interiors, but I am against ship interiors if the only thing it does is add extra time to ship disembarkation, that would be by far the worst implementation in my opinion. If they also added EVA, for exiting the ship and exploring abandoned ships for instance (once you have magnetically grappled to them of course) that may add enough extra content to make ship interiors worthwhile, but just for getting up and walking out the door?

I would like ship interiors as part of a much larger update that added useful content to that addition, and maybe one day we will get it.
 
I'm not that fussed about the interior of my own ship, but I would be very interested in exploring the interiors of derelict ships that have crashed in the surface, using tools to gain access to engineering stuff and mission objectives.

I'd be happy to have my own ship interior, as long as it had a purpose, for instance have them as places to keep trophies or souvenirs. Maybe have a personal synthesis area place where you can add to your personal weaponry, ammo and suit systems, like we can with the ships system.
 
It's about immersion.

I know some people hate and ridicule that word, but that's what it comes down to.
The main difference between Elite and Star Citizen in terms of approach to subject is balance between focus on immersion and gameplay.
SC is all about immersion - it's even in the title, suggesting you are going to be able to "live" in virtual world of some kind of space adventure. For this reason there are ship interiors, ability to use bed, walk around, do all kinds of seemingly mundane tasks, like riding train or whatever.
Elite is more focused on gameplay, because it has roots in simple arcade shooter of the 80's. That's why every interaction is basically centered around fire button (even if you want to learn some lore information in game, you need to fly towards some beacon and "shoot it" to get some snippet of info. It can be immersive, but its not its main concern.

People who want interiors in Elite just wish for little more of this kind of approach. Some people really want to immerse themselves in their fantasy of space adventure and I would say, judging from SC success in gathering money, there's a lot of those.

I would enjoy them in Elite I guess. But the problem with them and Elite is that it would be hard to fit them into the game's philosophy as it is. In Elite gameplay revolves around constantly repeating short, rather simple tasks, which would mean that things like interiors could become annoying for some people.
Sometimes I think a hybrid between SC and Elite would be great.
Honestly, I'm waiting for Starfield to get my fix in all those areas that Elite is not filling for me.
This is what i was talking about. People experience tech demo that is SC, and now demand that actual games have the same.
It's never going to happen.
It's like watching Unreal Engine 5 presentations, and than demanding that all games on UE5 have same level of immersion instead of Fortnite :ROFLMAO:.
Never going to happen.

You have Fleet Carrier, Space Stations, Outpost interior immersion - why aren't you immersing in real Elite Dangerous Interiors? It's easier to dismiss the reality, instead of facing the truth. And the truth is, you will never get SC level of interiors, because SC is not a real game, just a tech demo.
 
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What if we added an alternative to engineering
I would prefer to be able to cut crashed ship's cockpit glass with arc cutter to get access to some components hidden inside or alternatively enter the ship using the air-lock door (powering it up and hacking as settlement one). It is such an immersion breaker to have these panels only on crashed ships and SRVs.
 
If they were going to use something to disguise the mode change it would have to be a lot more creative and complicated than just a getting out of the chair animation, you can only stretch that out for so long.
The concourse elevator transition is also boring at times. Why would one need to turn 180 degrees back. Hyperjumps are similar to that in a way that despite the fact that many ship panels are interactive, the ones which "state" was not "pre-loaded" stays like that until the end of jump. We just need something to be able to do while we are in transition. For inside a ship it could be ship locker manipulation, switching on/off engines and external lights, changing loadout, deploy SRV etc.

In the shortest "transition" of sitting to the chair I mostly dislike inability to turn my head (just 30 degrees would be sufficient) and use wheel/emotion menu. The whole thing is pre-recorded, static and slow.
 
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