Why Does Caiman Need More Space Than Saltie?
- Thread starter coatifan
- Start date
When you think about it, a fair amount of the space requirements in this game don't make much sense. Why does the Polar Bear need more space than the African Elephant? Why does the Galapagos Giant Tortoise need more space than the Ring Tailed Lemur? Why does the Aardvark need more space than the Gemsbok? I wish I could answer your question, but I'm just as confused as you are.
Got me there. This one especially confuses me since the alligator shares the same space requirements as the saltie.
How did you miss the polar bear storm since the Arctic Pack was released? Originally Frontier based the space requirements on the Bear Conservation Group's ridiculously optimistic recommendations, then they halved it because nobody could use it in their zoos, then they halved it again because it was still stupid. The others are mostly based on hitboxes rather than actual welfare recommendations.
Actually the size difference is far greater. On average spectacled caimans weigh 7-40 kg (15-88 lb) with the largest recorded specimens weighing around 58 kg (128 lb). Full grown male salties on the other hand, weigh 400-500 kg (880-1,100 lb) on average and the largest scientifically measured specimen is estimated at 1,308 kg (2,884 lb), with estimations up to 2,000 kg (4,400 lb) for the exceptionally large specimens in Bhitarkanika National Park, that are yet to be measured.
I suspect when it comes to smaller species or those relatively sedentary which don't need that much space there is probably a hard limit on how small Frontier will put their requirements. I imagine they don't want to encourage any enclosures smaller than a certain amount as part of their message about modern zoos. They also probably want players to have enclosures big enough for the animals to display the full range of animations. Some of the social ones in particular need broad open space. Obviously in sandbox they've given the option to turn welfare requirements off because they know some of the community like to build realistically.
I think none of the potential explanations given in comments can explain the Spectacled Caiman and Saltwater Crocodile situation. From a hitbox point of view, Saltwater Crocodiles are much much larger, which is also why they have a deeper requirement to dive. From a welfare point of view, the same thing. The reasons listed here could perhaps explain some of the other choices, but not two Crocodilians of different Size, which have similar animations.
Caiman space requirement should at least be as low as the Crocodile, if not smaller. Ideally I would like to see an even smaller requirement.
Caiman space requirement should at least be as low as the Crocodile, if not smaller. Ideally I would like to see an even smaller requirement.
You're not wrong. Perhaps it's to do with group size.
I think there are 2 problems here.
1. The space requirements are wildly inconsistent.
2. The hitboxes for many animals are what can generously be described as total bull and thank Allah for that smol hitbox mod
Like fr, pardon my French, but why are the official animal hitboxes such utter doodoo feces?
1. The space requirements are wildly inconsistent.
2. The hitboxes for many animals are what can generously be described as total bull and thank Allah for that smol hitbox mod
Like fr, pardon my French, but why are the official animal hitboxes such utter doodoo feces?
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As has been explained many times over the years, the hitboxes are based on the animal's ability to turn 360 degrees. For the crocodiles, this means the hitbox has to be as wide as the animal is long.
All the crocodilians have space requirements that are far, far, far too big. This is exacerbated by the way hit boxes are calculated (length of animal) combined with poor ability to traverse steep terrain. Together these effectively reduce their available space still further so that, in-game, it is almost impossible to build a realistic enclosure for any crocodilian. It’s a real pity - one of the biggest flaws of the game IMO.
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Very much this. This is especially true for smaller species like Meerkats, Fennec Foxes and Prairie Dogs and species that are often kept in indoor enclosures such as reptiles. I think reducing the requirments as much as the hitboxes allow for these species would help a great deal.
Doubt it has got to do with group sizes. Additional animals already add to the space requirement so no need to set a bigger base requirement. Even if we assume it has some correlation with group sizes, then it doesn't explain why American alligators need less space with the same group size, but bigger hitboxes.
A while ago I had made a few tests to see if it is possible to build functional habitats with less space than required and the results were pretty promising.
For instance, the following pictures depict a perfectly functional Nile monitor habitat with terraforming, rockwork, foliage and enrichment items for a future reptile house that is intended to house tortoises, dwarf caimans, monitors and indoor underwater viewing areas for larger crocodilians alongside regular exhibit animals like terrapins, iguanas and snakes. Even made a few larger (double) exhibit combinations in case we get 8x4x4 exhibits in the future.
The habitat here is still far larger than most of its real life counterparts, but at least manageable when designing indoor areas in the game. Yet, the space inside the habitat doesn't even meet fifty percent of the required space. The monitors are also able to traverse both land and water efficiently and interact with enrichment items without any problems. Not to mention monitors use the crocodilian rig which makes turning much more difficult.
Based on such tests, I reckon space requirements for most of the smaller animals can be reduced by at least 50%. These new space requirements would still be larger than realistic, but at least a good compromise for building relatively more realistic looking habitats.
I have also noticed that the water area in the habitat information panel doesn't match the area in the body of water information panel.
Added some additional screens below for perspective:
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I would love to see photos from this project when it's complete! Looks like it's going to be an interesting Reptile House.
In reality this isn't the actual build that I am planning to flesh out, but a random map I use to try concepts and make habitat blueprints. However, I did try a few concepts for that future reptile house I'm planning, to get an idea about how much space I need for paths for it to function properly, as well as testing with interior lighting.
Here's a few pics from that quick test after a 5 min build to cover up the ceiling for light testing, nothing serious:
