Why does the AI do nothing about the trash here?

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

As you can see, there's litter all along this path, even though there's a bin at the start and end of it, which really isn't thát long.
I know that the AI isn't programmed as deeply as to be considerate, but it comes across like they're all juvenile, just throwing trash between the bins and even right next to them.

There's even a bear pointing it out, but they completely ignore it!

I suppose also their sluggish speed makes the time it takes to get to another one too long and so their rate of trash triggers much faster.
It's like it wants you to place bins every few feet, but that's ridiculous. - Guests should seek them out a bit more, like they can seek out sources for consumables.

This wouldn't be so much a problem if it would be cleaned, but that's not happening either.
Keepers seem to not really roam there and that's possibly due to Workzones not really making sense.
I mean, I've set workzones in this currently still rather simple park, but the way you select what a workzone is, being just particular buildings and habitats and such, and not any paths, makes it so that certain areas will go ignored simply because they're not really "in" a workzone. Paths are more between what you select for workzones, so they're actually ignored.

Why can't you just select paths or mark areas as workzones that the AI will wander and find things to do in?...
I mean, it worked that way in say 'RollerCoaster Tycoon', where you just selected paths and areas for each worker and they'd only go there but explore all of it.
And speaking of wandering, I've seen staff wander completely into directions where there's nothing, all the while there's work to be done.
What did I hire them and create workzones for?...

I also think that each type of staff should probably have different properties to their workzones. - For example, you could select mechanical objects only for mechanics but no other type of staff. - This would basically make workzones specific to staff-type, which is kind of the other way around from the way it is now. - Maybe they could be personal workzones and not general ones.
I know changing anything now could throw off the entire system, but the system is off and too "universal", cause really one size doesn't fit all here.

Guests avoiding bins like...

 

[HeatherG]

Bins needs to be placed all over the place. I only see one in the photo on the other path but the people on the longer path don't have any bins.

Why can't you just select paths or mark areas as workzones that the AI will wander and find things to do in?...
I mean, it worked that way in say 'RollerCoaster Tycoon', where you just selected paths and areas for each worker and they'd only go there but explore all of it.

The work zones don't work like they did in RollerCoaster Tycoon so you won't be able to select paths. Just select the buildings and the workers will use whatever paths are easiest to access their specific building.

This would basically make workzones specific to staff-type, which is kind of the other way around from the way it is now. - Maybe they could be personal workzones and not general ones.

They are specific to the staff type. For example, If you assign a keepers to a hut they huts and mechanics only go in their workshop, so they are specific to the staff type. I know they can get some getting used to.

 

[Firestar97]

As I've already mentioned once in another Thread: Guests should have 2 additional Inventory Spaces that they put their Trash in until they find a Trash Can. What else do their Pants have Pockets for?

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

Bins needs to be placed all over the place. I only see one in the photo on the other path but the people on the longer path don't have any bins.

What do you mean by "other" path? - The two images are of the same location: The closer shot of the bear-cutout is on the left in the wider shot.
I put bins in very sensible spots, basically on every corner, and sometimes in the middle of those when it seems a lot of distance.
In the wide shot there are three: One by the bear cutout, which is the start of the long path, and at the split at the end of that path. - Why do they throw their trash in the middle of these two relatively close bins?
There's also a bin when they come up to this elevated section, if you look down the ramp from the bear-cutout, which is also shown in the video from the other side. - And yes, there it looks like they do use it occasionally, as well as a Keeper emptying it, but that doesn't explain why they still throw it on the paths.

So, again, bins are at every corner and in between if too far, so they get plenty of oppotunity. It just seems the AI is way too keen on throwing trash constantly and mostly doesn't want to bother to find a bin, even though I have seen guests actually navigate to a bin directly and turn around to move along. I don't see why they can't do that all, if not most of them.

It also doesn't explain why there's litter right next to bins... What would it matter if I lined an entire path with bins if they just throw it next to the bins?...
They seem very much ignored rather than used.

The work zones don't work like they did in RollerCoaster Tycoon so you won't be able to select paths. Just select the buildings and the workers will use whatever paths are easiest to access their specific building.

I did not claim they worked the same, I was giving the way they worked in "RCT" as an example as to how those were just way more straightforward and directed to where the staff should go.

The way you put it is exactly where I see a problem with how Workzones... well, work, or don't work. - Because you can only select buildings, they'll only use paths between those they're assigned to, but anything outside of that region will be neglected, apparently, which doesn't make sense at all and would actually limit you to a very specific structure of park. - Because, the way I've laid a part out now, which is rather reasonable and plain, makes it so that Keepers clearly don't pass there and causes litter to be ignored.
It also still doesn't explain why they sometimes just wander off into the distance where there's nothing (like up the hill of this Canada-park I'm on now), but ignore work for them to be done. - Yes, they don't know it's there, but that's the problem with the lack of direction in the Workzones. - I'd say, give some Staff, such as Keepers, the ability to also mark other sections of the park apart from buildings only. Sections they can/should roam when there's no immediate task, but giving them a chance to run into one.

They are specific to the staff type. For example, If you assign a keepers to a hut they huts and mechanics only go in their workshop, so they are specific to the staff type. I know they can get some getting used to.

Sure, they have their own types of buildings, but I'm not talking about the buildings. - Limiting them to buildings is the problem, in my view.
Keepers have tasks like cleaning paths and bins, right?... They should be able to be assigned to paths and bins then, just like educators can be assigned to something as small as a Speaking-point. - There's an inconsistency there.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

As I've already mentioned once in another Thread: Guests should have 2 additional Inventory Spaces that they put their Trash in until they find a Trash Can. What else do their Pants have Pockets for?

Yea, even that could help a lot. - Like I said, they seem juvenile in that they just senselessly throw their trash all over the place, cause they're AI that cannot think ahead or anything like that. And I can't expect that much from crowd-AI. - Though, again, I've actually seen guests walk directly for a bin and then turn around (I think it's even in that video I added). But the litter on the paths wouldn't really make that seem a feature. - But yea, having them be a little more sensible and just throw trash when they pass a bin soon, maybe they can detect them with some kind of range, or if the bins might have a certain range on them that we can't see they should be a bit greater, that would already help a lot.

I refuse to place bins every few feet just because the AI has a shorter attention-span than a Gen Z Goldfish. - So game-y and messy, come on.
I don't have much trust in people in real life to not litter and hold on to waste for a little, but even in real life it's not as bad, ironically(?).

 

[Wrathloki]

Some times the guests are just ready to throw their trash away at a certain distance from the shops which can create problem areas. The best you can do is have multiple bins in the problem areas because that’s where the AI wants to unload and then make sure you have enough caretakers. I had one specific bin that kept overflowing so I just dropped a couple more there and now it’s all good. Also, I’m not sure about this but it’s probably not enough to only have a recycling bin. I don’t know how that works with this game so I could be wrong about that one.

 

[ElectricMonk]

Keepers have tasks like cleaning paths and bins, right?...

Nope. Caretakers clean bins and paths, not keepers.

 

[jcp011c]

Planet Zoo guests are the absolutely messiest, littering-est, "people" I have ever seen. You really do have to place bins everywhere and make sure you're assigning plenty of caretakers. As my zoo grows, along with the caretakers I've hired along the way, at some point the litter complaint is overwhelmingly the most common. At that point I hire several caretakers and assign them caretaker based zones around 2-3 habitats (more or less, depends on the habitat sizes). That's around the 30-40 habitat sized zoo. That generally clears up any issues once a year has by. And then, additional habitats, I assign another caretaker every 2-3 habitats.

 

[shirandhak]

Nope. Caretakers clean bins and paths, not keepers.

In other languages it might be slightly confusing, e.g. in german they are called "Zoopfleger" and "Tierpfleger" (so we would re-translate that to "zookeeper" and "animalkeeper". No german would consider "caretaker" for translation. It confused me, too, at first.)

Edit:
I can remember a bug, when guests suddenly littered all over the place, regardless if there were bins nearby and regardless of the amount of caretakers.
But yes, you can easily underestimate your demand for caretakers, if your zoo grows and grows.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

Nope. Caretakers clean bins and paths, not keepers.

You know what I meant.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

In other languages it might be slightly confusing, e.g. in german they are called "Zoopfleger" and "Tierpfleger" (so we would re-translate that to "zookeeper" and "animalkeeper". No german would consider "caretaker" for translation. It confused me, too, at first.)

It's not a language thing for me, though, I can simply confuse all the units and their roles, especially when I'm newer to something.
So I said Keepers instead of the Caretakers. But it's clear what I was talking about, whichever unit or type of staff goes after litter.

 

[ElectricMonk]

You know what I meant.

Actually, no. It sounded like you were confused about the staff roles.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

Edit:
I can remember a bug, when guests suddenly littered all over the place, regardless if there were bins nearby and regardless of the amount of caretakers.
But yes, you can easily underestimate your demand for caretakers, if your zoo grows and grows.

Yea, I suppose I'll throw around some more Caretakers. It's just that I didn't want to overdo it, but I suppose it quickly becomes a lot of ground to cover.

It's still that it's rather inconsistent in areas whether or not guests really use the bins, I found, and it's not that the bins are overflowing either.
One of those cases where I'll have to learn the "quirks" and "deal with it", I guess. - I don't mind to problem-solve, but sometimes it's a bit like "Oh, come on!".

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

Actually, no. It sounded like you were confused about the staff roles.

I only confused the names (as I explained), but I described what they did, not ask. - As in, "You know how such and such does such and such, right?" and then continued to explain what about that. - It doesn't really matter what I put there, as one would know what I was talking about. - And I know you could figure, cause you DO know as someone experienced with this game, and it's no point acting as if you don't understand (besides putting me down, probably) just because I happened to use the wrong word.

 

[ElectricMonk]

I only confused the names (as I explained), but I described what they did, not ask. - As in, "You know how such and such does such and such, right?" and then continued to explain what about that. - It doesn't really matter what I put there, as one would know what I was talking about. - And I know you could figure, cause you DO know as someone experienced with this game, and it's no point acting as if you don't understand (besides putting me down, probably) just because I happened to use the wrong word.

I was in no way trying to put you down. Rather, since you said you were new to the game, I thought you might have thought the keepers picked up rubbish between jobs in habiats given that you actually said that and even framed it as a question. I was trying to help by pointing out that you were wrong in thinking that - next time I won’t bother.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

I was in no way trying to put you down. Rather, since you said you were new to the game, I thought you might have thought the keepers picked up rubbish between jobs in habiats given that you actually said that and even framed it as a question. I was trying to help by pointing out that you were wrong in thinking that - next time I won’t bother.

I just explained that I did NOT put it as a question, it was more like a rhetorical statement. As in "You know this and that is like such and such, RIGHT?!", as people do. - You can misunderstand that from text, which is fine, but don't change my intention. - You are right about the part that I confused it because I'm rather new, but I could have mixed up the names of the staff anyway. Again, it doesn't really matter which one I put there, even if I put "clowns" there, you could've known which one I meant by the description of what they do. As in, "those that do this thing". That's all. - It's fine to correct it too, but don't make it about that, as it's irrelevant that I named the wrong one. I was simply on about something else.

 

[XT]

I don't know if you've ever been to Disneyland/world etc. But ... basically, there are trash bins every three steps, because actual humans do throw their trash around if they have to carry it more than five steps. So, it may look like the bins are close enough but they may not actually be. It's pretty annoying and I turn trash off when I'm in sandbox - but it is realistic.

And, of course, if caretakers do not pick up a round of trash, then it will build up. You can hire more caretakers and/or - if it seems like it's just a build-up of a missed cycle - pick up a caretaker and drop them on the littered path, they will clean it.

I couldn't tell if this was answered for you or not but ... you can create work zones that are specific buildings for mechanics or whatever. That's what I do - I create specific work zones for my mechanics and my educators - the educator workzones contain only staff rooms and talking points, my mechanic zones contain staff rooms, workshops (if I need them) and whatever I want them working on. Since the dang drink and sandwich machines break down every two seconds, I dedicate a work zone and a mechanic specifically to them and them only. You can also select what spesific tasks an employee does in the 'suitcase' tab: you may want to have a few caretakers that just sweep paths if it continues to be a problem.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

I don't know if you've ever been to Disneyland/world etc. But ... basically, there are trash bins every three steps, because actual humans do throw their trash around if they have to carry it more than five steps. So, it may look like the bins are close enough but they may not actually be. It's pretty annoying and I turn trash off when I'm in sandbox - but it is realistic.

Must be an American thing. (Yea, I went there... Even though, like I said, I don't have much faith in the general public when it comes to things like that anyway.)
But really, the AI in this game is just blatantly ridiculous at times. They could use a LITTLE more sophistication in their programming.

And, of course, if caretakers do not pick up a round of trash, then it will build up. You can hire more caretakers and/or - if it seems like it's just a build-up of a missed cycle - pick up a caretaker and drop them on the littered path, they will clean it.

Well, yes. It's just that it very much seems like that, whenever there's a branching path that isn't really "between" two things, like having two habitats at each end or something, making it so that there's no objective for the AI down that path, they will just not really go there and thus miss whatever they should be doing there. - Which is why I implied that there probably should be an option to straight-up mark areas where they should be going. This guarantees that you know where they'll be roaming, rather than having this vague "generally indicated area" because of selecting some buildings and such through Work Zones.

I couldn't tell if this was answered for you or not but ... you can create work zones that are specific buildings for mechanics or whatever. That's what I do - I create specific work zones for my mechanics and my educators - the educator workzones contain only staff rooms and talking points, my mechanic zones contain staff rooms, workshops (if I need them) and whatever I want them working on. Since the dang drink and sandwich machines break down every two seconds, I dedicate a work zone and a mechanic specifically to them and them only. You can also select what spesific tasks an employee does in the 'suitcase' tab: you may want to have a few caretakers that just sweep paths if it continues to be a problem.

Yea, I started doing that, actually, but I had to learn the basics first by just creating more general Work Zones and understanding what they were all doing.
I quickly realized that you can't really bunch them together to be efficient, which the tutorials definitely don't tell you. - And as you pointed out the specific tasks, I wasn't even aware that it existed. But I found out about that today or yesterday. - It all just becomes so micro-manage-y, but I guess it's a matter of just doing it bit by bit, tweaking it over time, and finding a workflow to do so.

Thanks for all the input, though!

 

[NZFanatic]

Do you use the green recycling bins everywhere, or do you also have the blue trash bins? I don't actually know if there is a functional difference because I usually use both (for the sake of realism), but I suppose there's a chance that's the problem.

 

[MicHaeL MonStaR]

Do you use the green recycling bins everywhere, or do you also have the blue trash bins? I don't actually know if there is a functional difference because I usually use both (for the sake of realism), but I suppose there's a chance that's the problem.

I've only used the green ones in that park so far, but I think a bin is a bin and they're all just re-skins.
I wouldn't think it would go as far as "attractiveness" to guests as to whether or not they would use it. That would really go too far. XD

But as an update, somehow it seems to have cleared up now and for some reason now I struggle to find any litter.
And I've barely changed anything and actually received way more guests by simply expanding the park.
Didn't add extra bins in between, still just "every corner", maybe only added one Keeper, but added much more pathing.
I'm sure some kind of parameter has changed, but it just changed from heavy littering to pretty much none from playing one day to the next.

Now I've started suspecting it was some kind of programming-anomaly, that perhaps the AI wasn't responding properly on that load.
I'm going to keep an eye on this and if it happens again I'll re-load the game and see if suddenly it clears up again.